Anonymous wrote:Honestly, unless you have the super crazy kid who would wet herself on purpose to get out of picking up, I wouldn’t allow a bathroom pass to get out of cleaning. We even make them clean during tantrums. “You can pick up even if you are crying. Crying doesn’t make your arms stop working.” I have absolutely hand over hand helped them pick up toys. It’s more about obedience, and not being lazy.

They need to pick up when you say, don’t be afraid to be a bad guy the first few times if they need to hear it. “Children follow directions. You do what your mother says. Pick up your toys.” Done. Honestly, I’d probably even let a kid try to pull the wet their pants routine. Then they’d be doing a toy pickup in messed pants, followed by changing clothes and starting a load of laundry. The consequences of not obeying Mom are more effort than picking up a puzzle.

Anonymous wrote:Op back. I appreciate the answers.

I will try out the above recommendations. And I’llet you all know what happens.

I can’t predict the future, but I feel like it’s definitely going to be a follow through with talk away toys. I just still think they may not respond, and I will be putting toys high up in the closet.

As I said, we used to have cooperation, and it wasn’t always peachy. Just lately, it’s outright refusal.

I’ll be back to tell you how this afternoon goes.

Anonymous wrote:A scenario might be:
M:”Larla and Larlo, I would like you to help pick up items on the living room floor” or “I would like you to put away your laundry intro drawers.”
8: “uhhhhh.”
M: “I’ll remind you again that of you help me for X minutes, you can pick a friend, and I’ll text/set up a time form them to come over.”
8: “ooh.” Named three friends she’s been missing
5: ignores entire conversation.
M:”you too larlo. We could meet Friend at the park. But first I need you to help pick up your hot wheels.”

I start
8 doesn’t start. “Firs ti need to ... go to the bathroom.”
M:”ok I’ll wait. But Larlo lets get started”
I get started again, 8yo never joins us.
She’s done with the bathroom, I remind her but you might sense some annoyance in my voice that she forget.

8:”uhhh I don’t want to. I’m hungry.”
5: “yeah I’m hungry too.”

On a patient day, I’ll serve them up. And attempt again.

Some days it’s ignore, some days it’s distraction, some days it’s that we ran out of time. “Ooh dads home now, let me cook dinner etc.” he may attempt with them too.

Other days, it’s just outright talking back and tantrums from 8yo, and it set off a fight. I say she needs to show more respect. If she talks back again, I will [x y or z]. Then it’s not about cleaning, it’s about overall disrespect, not listening. She ends up sent to her room for raising her voice. Well.... lucky her now she has gotten out of cleaning.

5yo mostly just ignores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yes no bribery - this needs to become a "this is what we do in our family, we help each other and take care of our home" thing, but that will take some time to build. It's okay - they are still young OP, you can totally do this! It will feel hard now but be so much better later. And don't just come up with these expectations in your head and then start placing them on them, they won't get it because they weren't expectations before. Maybe start having sunday family meetings. At the first one talk through very simply and not in a threatening way, that you are going to try some new things as a family. Give them a couple small expectations. Then practice that week. Then check in the next week. And don't make it "and if you guys do this great this week we will go to ice cream!" that will get you temporary behavior but it won't last, it's not what you need. You have to work on building the family values in the home and sticking to it. you got this!

I respectfully disagree! "bribery" in the form of a token economy is a perfectly acceptable way to create behavior you want to see. OP should read Kazdin. If you start with the cleaning up as toddlers, as you wisely did, you can skip bribery. But OP's daughter is 8, and she's not going to listen to "everyone in the family cleans up!"

I do agree with you that have to start very small. Very very small. Both the reward and the task are very small. For example, I started my 7 year old on doing one tiny thing: clearing his breakfast dishes every morning. He gets 2 tokens (worth 25 cents each) every time he does it on his own with no reminders; 1 for a reminder. Over the course of about 3 months of this, he now automatically clears his bowl every morning. From there, we are working up to more chores.

This is ridiculous. "In this house, we clean up after ourselves, or we face consequences until we do."

it's not ridiculous. there is actual research into how to get kids to change their behaviors, and I promise you that your idea is not going to work, at all. it's just going to create more opposition and not going to work, which means that OP will stop trying and her kids will again be reinforced in their bad behavior. the way to change behavior is to set up a graduated system of incentives and mild, concrete punishments. this all need to be thought through and planned, in detail.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yes no bribery - this needs to become a "this is what we do in our family, we help each other and take care of our home" thing, but that will take some time to build. It's okay - they are still young OP, you can totally do this! It will feel hard now but be so much better later. And don't just come up with these expectations in your head and then start placing them on them, they won't get it because they weren't expectations before. Maybe start having sunday family meetings. At the first one talk through very simply and not in a threatening way, that you are going to try some new things as a family. Give them a couple small expectations. Then practice that week. Then check in the next week. And don't make it "and if you guys do this great this week we will go to ice cream!" that will get you temporary behavior but it won't last, it's not what you need. You have to work on building the family values in the home and sticking to it. you got this!

I respectfully disagree! "bribery" in the form of a token economy is a perfectly acceptable way to create behavior you want to see. OP should read Kazdin. If you start with the cleaning up as toddlers, as you wisely did, you can skip bribery. But OP's daughter is 8, and she's not going to listen to "everyone in the family cleans up!"

I do agree with you that have to start very small. Very very small. Both the reward and the task are very small. For example, I started my 7 year old on doing one tiny thing: clearing his breakfast dishes every morning. He gets 2 tokens (worth 25 cents each) every time he does it on his own with no reminders; 1 for a reminder. Over the course of about 3 months of this, he now automatically clears his bowl every morning. From there, we are working up to more chores.

This is ridiculous. "In this house, we clean up after ourselves, or we face consequences until we do."

Anonymous wrote:Op back. I appreciate the answers.

I will try out the above recommendations. And I’llet you all know what happens.

I can’t predict the future, but I feel like it’s definitely going to be a follow through with talk away toys. I just still think they may not respond, and I will be putting toys high up in the closet.

As I said, we used to have cooperation, and it wasn’t always peachy. Just lately, it’s outright refusal.

I’ll be back to tell you how this afternoon goes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yes no bribery - this needs to become a "this is what we do in our family, we help each other and take care of our home" thing, but that will take some time to build. It's okay - they are still young OP, you can totally do this! It will feel hard now but be so much better later. And don't just come up with these expectations in your head and then start placing them on them, they won't get it because they weren't expectations before. Maybe start having sunday family meetings. At the first one talk through very simply and not in a threatening way, that you are going to try some new things as a family. Give them a couple small expectations. Then practice that week. Then check in the next week. And don't make it "and if you guys do this great this week we will go to ice cream!" that will get you temporary behavior but it won't last, it's not what you need. You have to work on building the family values in the home and sticking to it. you got this!

I respectfully disagree! "bribery" in the form of a token economy is a perfectly acceptable way to create behavior you want to see. OP should read Kazdin. If you start with the cleaning up as toddlers, as you wisely did, you can skip bribery. But OP's daughter is 8, and she's not going to listen to "everyone in the family cleans up!"

I do agree with you that have to start very small. Very very small. Both the reward and the task are very small. For example, I started my 7 year old on doing one tiny thing: clearing his breakfast dishes every morning. He gets 2 tokens (worth 25 cents each) every time he does it on his own with no reminders; 1 for a reminder. Over the course of about 3 months of this, he now automatically clears his bowl every morning. From there, we are working up to more chores.

Anonymous wrote:There need to be negative consequences to not doing what they’re told. Right now, they know there’s no consequence to not cleaning up, but if they drag their feet enough, you might offer them something really good in exchange. This has trained them to refuse until you sweeten the deal to their satisfaction.

Anonymous wrote:And yes no bribery - this needs to become a "this is what we do in our family, we help each other and take care of our home" thing, but that will take some time to build. It's okay - they are still young OP, you can totally do this! It will feel hard now but be so much better later. And don't just come up with these expectations in your head and then start placing them on them, they won't get it because they weren't expectations before. Maybe start having sunday family meetings. At the first one talk through very simply and not in a threatening way, that you are going to try some new things as a family. Give them a couple small expectations. Then practice that week. Then check in the next week. And don't make it "and if you guys do this great this week we will go to ice cream!" that will get you temporary behavior but it won't last, it's not what you need. You have to work on building the family values in the home and sticking to it. you got this!