I haven't read all the repies, because I could sense a fight about to happen (imagine that).

I do think the spouse's wish to not have kids does trump. Why? Because it is a child, not a couch. A child will sense if he/she is not wanted or if he caused the end of a marriage. A child is something you can't just say "sorry, I said I didn't want it, it's your to take care of" (OK, some selfish people do, but not many) And a child is a huge, never-ending financial and emotional responsibility.

But, what do you do OP? First, how in depth have you spoken to your husband? Can you address any of his concerns? Is your oldest old enough to start doing small chores (to help deal with the fatigue factor)? Or can you lay out how you plan to deal with a third child (pick-up, drop-off, activities). Will all children be limited to X number of activities. Will your husband still be able to do - whatever it is he needs to do to relax sometimes? Will your or his parents help out more? Will the youngest child be in the same age range and be able to play with the other children (or will an older child be old enough to "help" when out with the baby?).

If finances is a factor, is there something that will make the third child "less expensive" (you have all the stuff, maybe your older children will be in school by the time you need to pay for chidcare for the baby, you will agree to only funding part of each child's college education instead of paying for all).

If you can't convince him, how do you deal with your feelings? First, you give yourself time to mourn the child you will never have. Then you pull yourself up and put that energy into loving the children you have and appreciate that there are a lot of women who can't have any. You volunteer to help your friends watch their babies or maybe do some babysitting for some extra cash. And maybe you adopt a kitten or puppy if animals are your thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what would be helpful here? Is if anyone had advice, not criticisms, about how to deal with my desires, and the resulting disappointment and how to swallow my needs. No one has addressed that this is a real desire. Actually, two or three people have and I thank you. But for the other people that just think I should walk away, its not that simple. I need a way to deal with the disappointment and the fact that my husband closed the door, if that happens, without any debate. I'll need a way to not resent him for this and to not let it affect our marriage.

Anonymous wrote:. . . I don't see children just as a time sap, energy sap, finance sap. I think having a family is what life is all about and I see having a third, IF, IF we BOTH agreed to it, as something that would be good for all of us in the end. But I'm not going to do it alone or make my husband miserable in the process, I just wanted to hear any thoughts.

NP here. The truth, though, is that you and your husband don't agree. Convincing your husband to give in may not, in the end, mean he actually agrees. It may simply mean he's given in to your pressure. And though I agree with you that children are not just a "time sap, energy sap, finance sap," it's another truth that of course more children require more time, more energy, and more money. How can they not? Three college educations cost more than two. Three of everything cost more than two of everything. Denying that truth won't make it easier for your husband to believe that you really appreciate his concerns.

I understand that you have a lot of emotions about this. I've been there; I want another and my husband doesn't. You say you'd like advice about how to deal with your feelings and needs and not let your resentment affect your marriage. First of all, do realize that the resentment runs both ways. If you pressure your husband and he finally knuckles under and agrees to a third, he may feel major resentment and he may act it out in one way or another. Second, realize that feelings and desires are not needs. You're casting your desire to have a third as a need, but it's really a want. Seeing it clearly for what it is may make the whole process easier for you.

Finally, consider seeing a couples therapist who can help the two of you work through this and arrive at an agreement together. You will need to fully listen to and understand each other, and a good therapist can help you do that. You might also see a therapist on your own to help you process the feelings involved in this for you. And you might want to consider what's creating the sense of urgency you seem to feel about this. Is it your age? If not, what's creating the urgency and energy around this right now?

Good luck with this process, OP.

OP here, thank you so much for that kind response. I really do think I, or we, or both, are headed in the direction of talking to someone about this, because as you say, we'll one of us is bound to feel let down in this process.

Anonymous wrote:You know what would be helpful here? Is if anyone had advice, not criticisms, about how to deal with my desires, and the resulting disappointment and how to swallow my needs. No one has addressed that this is a real desire. Actually, two or three people have and I thank you. But for the other people that just think I should walk away, its not that simple. I need a way to deal with the disappointment and the fact that my husband closed the door, if that happens, without any debate. I'll need a way to not resent him for this and to not let it affect our marriage.

Anonymous wrote:. . . I don't see children just as a time sap, energy sap, finance sap. I think having a family is what life is all about and I see having a third, IF, IF we BOTH agreed to it, as something that would be good for all of us in the end. But I'm not going to do it alone or make my husband miserable in the process, I just wanted to hear any thoughts.

NP here. The truth, though, is that you and your husband don't agree. Convincing your husband to give in may not, in the end, mean he actually agrees. It may simply mean he's given in to your pressure. And though I agree with you that children are not just a "time sap, energy sap, finance sap," it's another truth that of course more children require more time, more energy, and more money. How can they not? Three college educations cost more than two. Three of everything cost more than two of everything. Denying that truth won't make it easier for your husband to believe that you really appreciate his concerns.

I understand that you have a lot of emotions about this. I've been there; I want another and my husband doesn't. You say you'd like advice about how to deal with your feelings and needs and not let your resentment affect your marriage. First of all, do realize that the resentment runs both ways. If you pressure your husband and he finally knuckles under and agrees to a third, he may feel major resentment and he may act it out in one way or another. Second, realize that feelings and desires are not needs. You're casting your desire to have a third as a need, but it's really a want. Seeing it clearly for what it is may make the whole process easier for you.

Finally, consider seeing a couples therapist who can help the two of you work through this and arrive at an agreement together. You will need to fully listen to and understand each other, and a good therapist can help you do that. You might also see a therapist on your own to help you process the feelings involved in this for you. And you might want to consider what's creating the sense of urgency you seem to feel about this. Is it your age? If not, what's creating the urgency and energy around this right now?

Good luck with this process, OP.

Anonymous wrote:You know what would be helpful here? Is if anyone had advice, not criticisms, about how to deal with my desires, and the resulting disappointment and how to swallow my needs. No one has addressed that this is a real desire. Actually, two or three people have and I thank you. But for the other people that just think I should walk away, its not that simple. I need a way to deal with the disappointment and the fact that my husband closed the door, if that happens, without any debate. I'll need a way to not resent him for this and to not let it affect our marriage.

Then you need a therapist not a forum.

You didn't come asking how to deal with disappointment, you came asking how can I change my husband's mind. You posted this question thinking you were going to get an overwhelming thread of support.

You know what would be helpful here? Is if anyone had advice, not criticisms, about how to deal with my desires, and the resulting disappointment and how to swallow my needs. No one has addressed that this is a real desire. Actually, two or three people have and I thank you. But for the other people that just think I should walk away, its not that simple. I need a way to deal with the disappointment and the fact that my husband closed the door, if that happens, without any debate. I'll need a way to not resent him for this and to not let it affect our marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why everyone cautions that you should just go with what he wants otherwise he will be resentful bla bla bla - what about you? How is this a compromise at all? What if you end up with a life of resentment on your side, from not having a third?

Thank you. I agree. We may not have a third, but I don't understand why its me that has to swallow my needs. I think its worth a discussion. And I actually do really worry about resentment on my side if he's not willing to discuss at all. It is a lifelong dream of mine to have a bigger family than just two. I think even if we toyed with the idea and then jointly came to the conclusion that it wasn't possible it would be better than never exploring it.

Becuase you are asking him to undertake some pretty big financial and emotional responsibilities by adding another child. If both are not on board, it is not fair to the spouse who doesn't want that added level of responsibility.

Oh gosh, adopting or fostering does not preclude you at all from having a special needs child, especially when you consider the emotional needs that come with fostering an older child. But given that my oldest does have special needs and did have a traumatic childhood, I am not willing to change the birth order of our family on her. That causes a whole new set of issues.

As to the other poster, its not that I'm ignoring your points. You just seem to have one point that his feeling trumps mine. I get it -- what is there to respond to there? I hardly think that the response from one person on DCUM at noon on a holiday week is a worldwide consensus and that I should be saying "thanks for showing me the light." I was just looking for opinions, and now I've heard yours. I will continue to talk about it with other people because it helps me process my feelings.

Anonymous wrote:The issue is not that my husband doesn't want a biological third. he doesn't want a third. Is your argument that I should ask to adopt a baby? I'm not understanding the theory behind this. Why would adopting a third be easier on him financially or with his time?

An older child usually requires less - in terms of sleepless nights, etc. That is all I was thinking of. Newborns and infants are hard, as are the terrible twos. I just thought it might be a way to complete your family without dealing with that - plus, I thought your husband might be concerned about having a third with special needs.

Anonymous wrote:No, I guess I don't. I don't see why when one person is "done" and the other isn't why the feelings of the person whose done trumps all others. We didn't agree on a number before we were married and I don't think its fair to ask me to suppress my feelings and not even talk about it at all. And if you read all my posts, my query came out of a desire not to win, or get my way but out of a desire to explore the issue further because I have a lot of experience with families whose husbands were not even on the fence, but actually opposed and wound up having a third and being so thankful for it. I don't see any discussion here in the joy of families, or the support additional siblings can provide to each other. I see criticism and accusations of selfishness. Honestly, if you've ever had a SN child, you realize that having one in and of itself makes you want to have a larger family because of the lifelong support siblings can provide to each other. We have cousins with a true, lifelong SN child and her only sibling shoulders a tremendous burden and I know, because she's told me, she wishes her family had more children. But that's besides the point. I don't see children just as a time sap, energy sap, finance sap. I think having a family is what life is all about and I see having a third, IF, IF we BOTH agreed to it, as something that would be good for all of us in the end. But I'm not going to do it alone or make my husband miserable in the process, I just wanted to hear any thoughts.

So what are you looking for from us? Do you want everyone to tell you you're right and your husband is wrong? That's what it sounds like--you don't seem to be reflecting on anything that anyone is telling you. What all of us think about the joy of families, etc. is irrelevant to your situation, as are other families you know in which the dad didn't want the third child. The only thing that matters is what you and your husband think here. And I stick to my previous post that your husband's strong reluctance to have a third trumsp your desire for one.

I understand your feelings OP. We have 2 children, and I would kind of like a third as well. I am slightly in a different situation though because we started our family rather late, and it's just not practical for me to have a 3rd child since I'm 45, and my dh is laid off from work. But I just wanted to post that I do understand your feelings. Maybe your dh will come around if you have the time to wait.

No, I guess I don't. I don't see why when one person is "done" and the other isn't why the feelings of the person whose done trumps all others. We didn't agree on a number before we were married and I don't think its fair to ask me to suppress my feelings and not even talk about it at all. And if you read all my posts, my query came out of a desire not to win, or get my way but out of a desire to explore the issue further because I have a lot of experience with families whose husbands were not even on the fence, but actually opposed and wound up having a third and being so thankful for it. I don't see any discussion here in the joy of families, or the support additional siblings can provide to each other. I see criticism and accusations of selfishness. Honestly, if you've ever had a SN child, you realize that having one in and of itself makes you want to have a larger family because of the lifelong support siblings can provide to each other. We have cousins with a true, lifelong SN child and her only sibling shoulders a tremendous burden and I know, because she's told me, she wishes her family had more children. But that's besides the point. I don't see children just as a time sap, energy sap, finance sap. I think having a family is what life is all about and I see having a third, IF, IF we BOTH agreed to it, as something that would be good for all of us in the end. But I'm not going to do it alone or make my husband miserable in the process, I just wanted to hear any thoughts.

I guess I don't understand why you can't respect your husband's feelings when he says he is done.

Wouldn't you want your husband to respect your feelings if you told him you were done?

12:08 here--fair enough, and I apologize if I misread your original post.

But what about the other points I and others are making? Can you see where we're coming from?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess if you've never felt the feeling, its hard to explain. I am thrilled with two, but I truly have the feeling that our family isn't complete yet. And while I have spent three years working on a way to find peace that this is it for us, that feeling hasn't really gone away at all. Like I said it the beginning, I will be perfectly content if two is all I ever have. I also think its worth exploring the issue one more time with my husband before I close the door completely so that's why I asked if anyone has had a similar experience.

NP here. I think it's fine to explore the issue, but that's not how you phrased your op nor your subsequent posts--those were phrased as though your husband is firmly opposed to a third and you wanted to somehow push him into it (it even sounds like you briefly considered jettisoning birth control without telling him).

The only scenario where I think the person who wants kids potentially trumps the one who doesn't is when a couple had previously agreed to have kids, married based partly on that mutual agreement, and one person backs down. In that case, I can see a need for therapy or intensive discussion about whether to go ahead and have a kid anyway. But really, I think it's patently unfair to bring a child into this world if both parents aren't 100% on board. Raising a kid is hard enough even with that commitment. Doing so without it is really unfair to the child, and is a recipe for marital problems down the road. You seem not to see this, which I find troubling. Simply saying that your husband is a great dad is entirely besides the point.

In this case, the status quo trumps a 3rd child. I really think that, assuming your husband has been clear about his wishes, you need to let go of your desire for a third child and move on.

I don't know where you got the idea about the birth control but that is absolutely False. In fact, I said, people advised me to accidentally get pregnant and I am vehemently opposed to that.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess if you've never felt the feeling, its hard to explain. I am thrilled with two, but I truly have the feeling that our family isn't complete yet. And while I have spent three years working on a way to find peace that this is it for us, that feeling hasn't really gone away at all. Like I said it the beginning, I will be perfectly content if two is all I ever have. I also think its worth exploring the issue one more time with my husband before I close the door completely so that's why I asked if anyone has had a similar experience.

NP here. I think it's fine to explore the issue, but that's not how you phrased your op nor your subsequent posts--those were phrased as though your husband is firmly opposed to a third and you wanted to somehow push him into it (it even sounds like you briefly considered jettisoning birth control without telling him).

The only scenario where I think the person who wants kids potentially trumps the one who doesn't is when a couple had previously agreed to have kids, married based partly on that mutual agreement, and one person backs down. In that case, I can see a need for therapy or intensive discussion about whether to go ahead and have a kid anyway. But really, I think it's patently unfair to bring a child into this world if both parents aren't 100% on board. Raising a kid is hard enough even with that commitment. Doing so without it is really unfair to the child, and is a recipe for marital problems down the road. You seem not to see this, which I find troubling. Simply saying that your husband is a great dad is entirely besides the point.

In this case, the status quo trumps a 3rd child. I really think that, assuming your husband has been clear about his wishes, you need to let go of your desire for a third child and move on.