Anonymous wrote:Thank you for this entire thread. My kid is also in freshman year at a big engineering program. He's smart and he works hard, but he doesn't yet work smart. It will come.

If he truly has those two - not just mom's bias opinion - he will be fine.

Thank you for this entire thread. My kid is also in freshman year at a big engineering program. He's smart and he works hard, but he doesn't yet work smart. It will come.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"That’s true but that’s not what goes on. More often than not these students are driving down averages on reasonable tests. A friend’s son is studying engineering at a similarly ranked school. He was warned how tough such and such is, and sure enough the median will be 30%, yet he pulls a good grade before the curve. The students aren’t working, it was the same when I was in school.

I’m glad your friend’s kid is so capable. Some people really are good at this stuff. I think you are making assumptions about everyone else. Very few engineering students aren’t working - it is easier to move on."

The good news is that Engineering jobs are the same way.

Look at a chart of all the different things engineers do. From Research engineer (like Wolowitz on Big Bang) to glorified sales people with titles like sales engineer.

The curve breakers have their pick but the 2.2s are fine as long as they are interested in engineering and not obsesses with their salary compared to others.

An important point. Curve breakers have their pick. And most of us are t those people. Our kids arent failures when they aren’t the very best.

And OP, your kid is just beginning. I’d stress that the kid needs to take advantage of office hours and the math lab. I’d lay off about the grades themselves.

True, but although there are plenty of people with a 2.0 after a semester at a big engineering program, the percent of those who will end up finishing an engineering degree is low. So even if that is center of the pack, being satisfied with center of the pack at this stage in the game, is still risky.

Absolutely. It isn't a good place to be. OP and I both know that. But it isn't like you can say "get better grades, kiddo" and it will automatically happen. I worry terribly for my kid but she's managing to hang on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kid's classes had a 46% first time pass rate...that's right, more students flunked it than passed it the first time.

So painful!!!

If any parents of future freshman are reading... take it slow!

I’m someone who started out thinking I’d be a physics major at a T30 school and ended up being an English major.

My advice would be: Kids from regular high schools who go into STEM classes at top schools should make sure their core math and science classes are retakes of classes they’ve already had in high school, at community colleges or online. The problem is that T30 freshmen who haven’t gone to a place like Thomas Jefferson High may have no idea what it’s like to be in a math or science class designed for kids with a median math SAT score around 790.

This is good advice!

and I would add (mom of sophomore daughter struggling to hang on through the weeding out), don't necessarily pick the "best" place. Pick the one where you feel you can succeed. All our kids seem terrific at the time they enter engineering school and many won't make it. No one cares if their school is highly ranked in the field they aren't in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kid's classes had a 46% first time pass rate...that's right, more students flunked it than passed it the first time.

So painful!!!

If any parents of future freshman are reading... take it slow!

I’m someone who started out thinking I’d be a physics major at a T30 school and ended up being an English major.

My advice would be: Kids from regular high schools who go into STEM classes at top schools should make sure their core math and science classes are retakes of classes they’ve already had in high school, at community colleges or online. The problem is that T30 freshmen who haven’t gone to a place like Thomas Jefferson High may have no idea what it’s like to be in a math or science class designed for kids with a median math SAT score around 790.

This is good advice!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at a government research lab and all the resumes I’ve seen from places like Virginia Tech, UMD and Clemson list GPAs over 3.0. We wouldn’t even consider someone with below a 2.5. There are just too many more with higher stats.

That sounds right.

But that doesn’t mean the kid in question has no future. Clearly engineering is t coming easy to him, and research may not be his thing, but there are jobs for engineers in the bottom half of their classes.

There are plenty of jobs just not government. Think start ups or Enterprise Rental or Marriott. Think out of th box for a change.

Bigger concern is matriculation to major. Some schools will not let an engineering student move on into the major with a low gpa. NC State doesn’t have that issue for students because many come into the school already accepted to the program no matriculation required. Same goes for Business school programs. University of MD, JMU both have limited enrollment programs UMD is like a 3.7 to get in a after freshman year . Many kids don’t get in and either have to leave college park or change majors. JMU nursing is another program that is limited enrollment based on GPA so students at JMU now can not get into major of choice do they stay or do they transfer colleges. Many end up at community colleges fix the gpa and go back to a four year school.

Knowledge about matriculation before a student goes to college is important. Many parents only look at what it takes to get in they forget to look at the end goal which is to get out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"That’s true but that’s not what goes on. More often than not these students are driving down averages on reasonable tests. A friend’s son is studying engineering at a similarly ranked school. He was warned how tough such and such is, and sure enough the median will be 30%, yet he pulls a good grade before the curve. The students aren’t working, it was the same when I was in school.

I’m glad your friend’s kid is so capable. Some people really are good at this stuff. I think you are making assumptions about everyone else. Very few engineering students aren’t working - it is easier to move on."

The good news is that Engineering jobs are the same way.

Look at a chart of all the different things engineers do. From Research engineer (like Wolowitz on Big Bang) to glorified sales people with titles like sales engineer.

The curve breakers have their pick but the 2.2s are fine as long as they are interested in engineering and not obsesses with their salary compared to others.

An important point. Curve breakers have their pick. And most of us are t those people. Our kids arent failures when they aren’t the very best.

And OP, your kid is just beginning. I’d stress that the kid needs to take advantage of office hours and the math lab. I’d lay off about the grades themselves.

True, but although there are plenty of people with a 2.0 after a semester at a big engineering program, the percent of those who will end up finishing an engineering degree is low. So even if that is center of the pack, being satisfied with center of the pack at this stage in the game, is still risky.

Anonymous wrote:"That’s true but that’s not what goes on. More often than not these students are driving down averages on reasonable tests. A friend’s son is studying engineering at a similarly ranked school. He was warned how tough such and such is, and sure enough the median will be 30%, yet he pulls a good grade before the curve. The students aren’t working, it was the same when I was in school.

I’m glad your friend’s kid is so capable. Some people really are good at this stuff. I think you are making assumptions about everyone else. Very few engineering students aren’t working - it is easier to move on."

The good news is that Engineering jobs are the same way.

Look at a chart of all the different things engineers do. From Research engineer (like Wolowitz on Big Bang) to glorified sales people with titles like sales engineer.

The curve breakers have their pick but the 2.2s are fine as long as they are interested in engineering and not obsesses with their salary compared to others.

An important point. Curve breakers have their pick. And most of us are t those people. Our kids arent failures when they aren’t the very best.

And OP, your kid is just beginning. I’d stress that the kid needs to take advantage of office hours and the math lab. I’d lay off about the grades themselves.

"That’s true but that’s not what goes on. More often than not these students are driving down averages on reasonable tests. A friend’s son is studying engineering at a similarly ranked school. He was warned how tough such and such is, and sure enough the median will be 30%, yet he pulls a good grade before the curve. The students aren’t working, it was the same when I was in school.

I’m glad your friend’s kid is so capable. Some people really are good at this stuff. I think you are making assumptions about everyone else. Very few engineering students aren’t working - it is easier to move on."

The good news is that Engineering jobs are the same way.

Look at a chart of all the different things engineers do. From Research engineer (like Wolowitz on Big Bang) to glorified sales people with titles like sales engineer.

The curve breakers have their pick but the 2.2s are fine as long as they are interested in engineering and not obsesses with their salary compared to others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’s not misleading you, large state engineering programs are a full of lazy students dragging down averages. The part that’s under the rug is that given curved grades, these Cs are often well bellow 50% mastery.

50% as a median grade on an exam doesn't mean 50% mastery. Not even close.

I've taught STEM classes and I can pretty much write an exam to get any median grade I want.

That’s true but that’s not what goes on. More often than not these students are driving down averages on reasonable tests. A friend’s son is studying engineering at a similarly ranked school. He was warned how tough such and such is, and sure enough the median will be 30%, yet he pulls a good grade before the curve. The students aren’t working, it was the same when I was in school.

I’m glad your friend’s kid is so capable. Some people really are good at this stuff. I think you are making assumptions about everyone else. Very few engineering students aren’t working - it is easier to move on.

Cs get degrees, but in some places certain minimums are required to stay in the major. Keep track of those. Also, in some schools, minimums are required in specific classes. A 71 could require the course is retaken; a 73 does not. Even varies by departments within a as school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He’s not misleading you, large state engineering programs are a full of lazy students dragging down averages. The part that’s under the rug is that given curved grades, these Cs are often well bellow 50% mastery.

50% as a median grade on an exam doesn't mean 50% mastery. Not even close.

I've taught STEM classes and I can pretty much write an exam to get any median grade I want.

That’s true but that’s not what goes on. More often than not these students are driving down averages on reasonable tests. A friend’s son is studying engineering at a similarly ranked school. He was warned how tough such and such is, and sure enough the median will be 30%, yet he pulls a good grade before the curve. The students aren’t working, it was the same when I was in school.

Bottom line, he has 7 semesters to pull up his GPA. Many of the first year engineering classes are weed-outs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my kid's classes had a 46% first time pass rate...that's right, more students flunked it than passed it the first time.

So painful!!!

If any parents of future freshman are reading... take it slow!

I’m someone who started out thinking I’d be a physics major at a T30 school and ended up being an English major.

My advice would be: Kids from regular high schools who go into STEM classes at top schools should make sure their core math and science classes are retakes of classes they’ve already had in high school, at community colleges or online. The problem is that T30 freshmen who haven’t gone to a place like Thomas Jefferson High may have no idea what it’s like to be in a math or science class designed for kids with a median math SAT score around 790.

Junior year of engineering gets really hard with Thermo etc. does he really want to do this?