I grew up with two alcoholic parents but somehow they were very kind and not abusive to us.

Not trying to diminish the negatives many have, but not all kids with alcoholic parents suffer abuse.

My brother in law is married to a woman who divorced a guy who was an addict. There were definitely times where she felt her children were in danger when they were with him. It was more than just drinking, it was pill popping as well. They got to a point where he had to be drug tested and do a breathalyzer in order to see the kids. If either test came back positive, he forfeited his visitation that day/weekend. She had to bide her time building a case against him before she finally went for full custody. I'm estimating it was about 7 years or so. She now has full legal and physical custody.

I would be terrified at leaving an alcoholic spouse for the reasons you mention...you can't protect them when they're with her. And I do NOT believe a court will simply give your brother full custody right off the bat so you are right to be concerned.

I would tell him to see a lawyer and find out what kind of evidence they think would be best for proving that he should be primary custodial parent given her alcoholism. Then he should start collecting that evidence. Keep records of every stint in and out of rehab. Keep journal entries of when she's drunk. If she's arrested for dui or public intoxication, get copies of the arrest records. If she forgets to pick up the kids, misses their activities b/c she's drunk, physically hurts them in any way. Build a case while they're still married. When he thinks he has what he needs, start the divorce process.

I have two families as friends.

Family 1: Dad works 6 days out if the week. Every night when he comes home he goes to his man cave and drinks (beer, wine) until 4am. Sleeps till 1 and goes to work. Is this alcoholism?

Family 2: I don’t know if he drinks during the week but on the weekend he starts drinking in the morning and doesn’t stop. One time we gave him and his friends a six pack each. He drank his in 15 minutes and started drinking his friend’s.

Is this alcoholism? How can they function and maintain jobs?

Anonymous wrote:My brother feels completely trapped. He’s known his wife since they were teenagers but married 10 years. Unfortunately after their 2nd child the anxiety she had that was well-controlled by meds became not. She then turned to Xanax and alcohol and has been in and out of rehab for past 3 years. My brother has been a virtually single parent during this time with the help of grandparents. He really wanted to make it work as he loves her (sober) but she just can’t seem to beat this disease and he is beyond stressed and miserable. But he feels trapped because right now he can make sure his young kids are safe in the house/he drives them everywhere, but if he were to pursue a divorce she would likely get some custody where he’d be worried sick about their safety. Not to mention, if alcoholism is a disease, he feels like crap divorcing her over it but it’s destroyed their lives. I feel so bad for him and his current plan to live in misery and stress until kids are teenagers (5 more years).

He should at least see a lawyer - there could be long-term financial implications such as owing her part of his retirement that can arise the longer they are married.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Addiction = divorce. She has torn-up her parent & spouse card. He owes her nothing. I do understand his concern for oversight. That's a practical, serious concern. He should be talking to lawyers. He can be doing that without making a decision yet.

For better or for worse?

Addiction is a disease, you bitter harpy.

Fk better or worse. Yes, it's a disease. That only means, she couldn't help it. That said it's not Stage lV cancer with no cure. The cure is entirely in her power. She may not have chosen this disease but she chooses to not cure herself every day she drinks instead of getting the help she needs. She chooses the disease over her children, husband, and marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him to go to al-anon for support.

Statistically when it’s the husband who is the alcoholic, the wife toughs it out. When it’s the woman, she usually gets dumped.

Addiction is a disease that very hard to treat because the person who needs to acknowledge there’s a problem and wants to change. Even when they’ve come to this point, they may still relapse. That’s why going to meetings is part of the program and enforced rehab doesn’t usually work.

He’s been listening to their podcasts as not a free minute in his day to go to meetings. She is an atheist and says she hates the AA meetings and the people there because of religious spin so won’t go anymore.

A hopeless alcoholic will always have a good excuse not to attend AA. Al-anon is great if he wants support and tools he can use while navigating his life with her. It's not really that helpful in this situation. I divorced my alcoholic wife when it became more important than anything to get my children away from her. I should write a book on how I did it. It won't be easy and she can refuse to cooperate, refuse to move out, and meanwhile, she will make any promises she has to in order to buy more time. She may even agree to AA or some other program, but it just wastes more time. I feel for your brother. I've BTDT. I wish I could talk to him.

Anonymous wrote:A disease to me is something that you are afflicted with -
Something that you cannot get rid of at all.

Cancer, diabetes, etc. are authentic diseases as one cannot escape them.

Alcoholism can be eradicated if someone makes the CHOICE to not walk into a 7-11 & physically make a purchase of anything that includes alcohol.

Since alcohol is synthetic -
How can a person be afflicted with a disease that consists of something not physiological but man made...??

Exactly. There's a lot of choice involved. It's like cheaters it's some sort of mental problem that runs deep. You can go to all the meetings, see therapists but one has to decide to stop. If they refuse it's time to end the marriage and put the kids welfare first.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A disease to me is something that you are afflicted with -
Something that you cannot get rid of at all.

Cancer, diabetes, etc. are authentic diseases as one cannot escape them.

Alcoholism can be eradicated if someone makes the CHOICE to not walk into a 7-11 & physically make a purchase of anything that includes alcohol.

Since alcohol is synthetic -
How can a person be afflicted with a disease that consists of something not physiological but man made...??

I'm not sure you understand how diabetes works. Diabetes is a disease. A person can choose to follow the correct treatment protocol to manage it, eg, improving diet, taking insulin. So a diabetic didn't choose to be a diabetic but he or she can choose to follow the correct treatment. It's the same with alcoholism, which is an inherited genetic predisposition. You can't choose to NOT be an alcoholic but you can choose the correct treatment. I will never stop being an alcoholic but I can choose to not drink and to go to meetings. Believe me, I would like to be able to have a drink now and then (rather than having had to abstain for the last 30 years) but I can't and that's part of the disease, which I inherited from my parents.

Congrats on your sobriety.

I just want to jump in on that, because this "inherited genetic predisposition" line apparently took the place of the old-school AA line about being allergic to alcohol. In any event, it's a simplistic and inaccurate explanation. Genetics is a factor in alcohol dependency, but only a factor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him to go to al-anon for support.

Statistically when it’s the husband who is the alcoholic, the wife toughs it out. When it’s the woman, she usually gets dumped.

Addiction is a disease that very hard to treat because the person who needs to acknowledge there’s a problem and wants to change. Even when they’ve come to this point, they may still relapse. That’s why going to meetings is part of the program and enforced rehab doesn’t usually work.

He’s been listening to their podcasts as not a free minute in his day to go to meetings. She is an atheist and says she hates the AA meetings and the people there because of religious spin so won’t go anymore.

SMART recovery in that case. (Not that an atheist can't be a 12-stepper or a believer can't be in SMART recovery candidate, but if she finds AA offensive SMART is a good alternative).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A disease to me is something that you are afflicted with -
Something that you cannot get rid of at all.

Cancer, diabetes, etc. are authentic diseases as one cannot escape them.

Alcoholism can be eradicated if someone makes the CHOICE to not walk into a 7-11 & physically make a purchase of anything that includes alcohol.

Since alcohol is synthetic -
How can a person be afflicted with a disease that consists of something not physiological but man made...??

I'm not sure you understand how diabetes works. Diabetes is a disease. A person can choose to follow the correct treatment protocol to manage it, eg, improving diet, taking insulin. So a diabetic didn't choose to be a diabetic but he or she can choose to follow the correct treatment. It's the same with alcoholism, which is an inherited genetic predisposition. You can't choose to NOT be an alcoholic but you can choose the correct treatment. I will never stop being an alcoholic but I can choose to not drink and to go to meetings. Believe me, I would like to be able to have a drink now and then (rather than having had to abstain for the last 30 years) but I can't and that's part of the disease, which I inherited from my parents.

Congrats on your sobriety.

OP, if wife has been in and out of rehabs over 3 years it
sounds like she is very hard core and unwilling to change
at this point.

Why is your brother waiting 5 years?

1. Encourage him to see a counselor for him, not the
marriage, that specializes in alcoholism in families.
2. Have him see a lawyer that specializes in
divorces when a partner has substance abuse.
Generally with alcoholic partners the judge can
require a breathalyzer https://www.soberlink.com/ type of test prior to
each custody visit. The judge can also require
gadgets that she has to blow into on her car.
3. Have your brother start logging alcoholic behavior
and how it affects the children. Is she passed
out at lunch so that kids don't get a meal?
Is she driving intoxicated? Is she passed out on the
toilet? Don't log her alcohol consumption, honestly
that does not matter, log the results.
If she shows up drunk at school functions and
police are called get the police reports.
4. I'm not big on cell phones and kids but this
is one case make sure the oldest has a cell phone
and Dad's numbers programmed in and also
the grandparents numbers programmed in.

If the alcoholic spouse is pretty far gone and it
sounds like your brother's wife is a lot of times
the courts will rule the non alcoholic is
the primary custodian of the children and the
alcoholic gets visitation but your brother
can specify in the divorce that his wife has
to blow sober in the soberlink device before
she gets her visits. This varies by state
and your brother needs a legal consult.

If your brother takes the children and moves out
to an apartment this will once in awhile force
permanent sobriety but even this is rare.

I'd find out why your brother wants to wait 5 years.
Believe me, as a child having a parent passed out
at 10:30 am in the morning is no picnic.

I've seen kids in Alateen at ages 10-12 so that is
a future resource for the children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him to go to al-anon for support.

Statistically when it’s the husband who is the alcoholic, the wife toughs it out. When it’s the woman, she usually gets dumped.

Addiction is a disease that very hard to treat because the person who needs to acknowledge there’s a problem and wants to change. Even when they’ve come to this point, they may still relapse. That’s why going to meetings is part of the program and enforced rehab doesn’t usually work.

He’s been listening to their podcasts as not a free minute in his day to go to meetings. She is an atheist and says she hates the AA meetings and the people there because of religious spin so won’t go anymore.

This is really an excuse she is using to continue her addiction. AA is not religious. There are secular meetings out there and also Smart Recovery meetings.

As an atheist, I must say, Al-Anon made me uncomfortable. AA is often religious. It takes some work to re-conceptualize it as non-religious and you can only do that for yourself, but if you are in a group others are often very religious. It was uncomfortable for me, an atheist.

That's why they say you should try six different Al-Anon meetings. While the structure is generally the same, groups vary based on what kind of people they draw. I started out attending Al-Anon at a university and there were very few people who would have called themselves serious Christians in our group.

Anonymous wrote:A disease to me is something that you are afflicted with -
Something that you cannot get rid of at all.

Cancer, diabetes, etc. are authentic diseases as one cannot escape them.

Alcoholism can be eradicated if someone makes the CHOICE to not walk into a 7-11 & physically make a purchase of anything that includes alcohol.

Since alcohol is synthetic -
How can a person be afflicted with a disease that consists of something not physiological but man made...??

I'm not sure you understand how diabetes works. Diabetes is a disease. A person can choose to follow the correct treatment protocol to manage it, eg, improving diet, taking insulin. So a diabetic didn't choose to be a diabetic but he or she can choose to follow the correct treatment. It's the same with alcoholism, which is an inherited genetic predisposition. You can't choose to NOT be an alcoholic but you can choose the correct treatment. I will never stop being an alcoholic but I can choose to not drink and to go to meetings. Believe me, I would like to be able to have a drink now and then (rather than having had to abstain for the last 30 years) but I can't and that's part of the disease, which I inherited from my parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell him to go to al-anon for support.

Statistically when it’s the husband who is the alcoholic, the wife toughs it out. When it’s the woman, she usually gets dumped.

Addiction is a disease that very hard to treat because the person who needs to acknowledge there’s a problem and wants to change. Even when they’ve come to this point, they may still relapse. That’s why going to meetings is part of the program and enforced rehab doesn’t usually work.

He’s been listening to their podcasts as not a free minute in his day to go to meetings. She is an atheist and says she hates the AA meetings and the people there because of religious spin so won’t go anymore.

This is really an excuse she is using to continue her addiction. AA is not religious. There are secular meetings out there and also Smart Recovery meetings.

Completely agree. I am married to an alcoholic, and this is the same exact excuse my husband gave about not going to AA meetings; the truth was that (at the time) he didn't want to get better.

He's been sober for over 3 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A disease to me is something that you are afflicted with -
Something that you cannot get rid of at all.

Cancer, diabetes, etc. are authentic diseases as one cannot escape them.

Alcoholism can be eradicated if someone makes the CHOICE to not walk into a 7-11 & physically make a purchase of anything that includes alcohol.

Since alcohol is synthetic -
How can a person be afflicted with a disease that consists of something not physiological but man made...??

+1

I agree. People get colds, they get the flu, they get cancer. You don't get alcoholic, you become alcoholic. Big difference.

Cancer and diabetes are also diseases a lot of people GET by living unhealthy lifestyles (smoking, eating crappy food, sugar addiction, etc).

So no, no difference.