Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the alternative? I'm not being snarky. Restraining the child? Medicating the child? A lot of these kids are physically harming the teacher or other students. Obviously if they aren't a harm to others they shouldn't be in this room, but plenty of the kids are a harm to others.

This. I'm in canada and my school district disallowed rooms like this, but the level of violence from one of the children in my son's grade is insane. Like they lockdown the pod, lock all the classrooms while he throws a fit flipping tables and smashing stuff in the hallway. He is 9. Presents fairly typical other than the rage at the drop of a hat. He's suspended right now but unless the school is allowed to inject him with tranquilizers a room seems the best bet. Awful but the school system deals with some pretty extreme cases these days. He is a big kid too. Nothing works. 4-5 teachers including administrators can't help him when he unleashes. Yet he has rights. The rooms are disturbing but more so the situation of exactly what kids do these days. It was not like that when I was a kid.

You keep bringing up the most extreme cases. Your school system is not dealing with this appropriately. There are better behavior systems, I'm not going to mention names here. It is like moving a mountain to get a school system to look at better training. Not every parent is trying to mainstream their kids. There is so little inclusion in public schools that you would be stunned.

Anonymous wrote:What's the alternative? I'm not being snarky. Restraining the child? Medicating the child? A lot of these kids are physically harming the teacher or other students. Obviously if they aren't a harm to others they shouldn't be in this room, but plenty of the kids are a harm to others.

First federal law mandates that all children have free access to education in this country. Don't assume that the kids in these classes have no value, are incapable of learning, or get no benefit from learning.

Don't assume that these kids are physically harming anyone.

One of the most important things to understand is that students who are put in these rooms or restrained are often NOT being violent or out of control. When restraint and seclusion are used, they will eventually be abused and that abuse then becomes the norm. We have so many cases in my county where students were put in seclusion for cursing, for moving too slow, or for making noises that annoyed the teachers. In Loudoun county a student in a self contained class took a photo of another student who had been shoved behind filing cabinets so the two teachers in her room could stop and get on Facebook. The student wasn't being violent.

Often the kids who are subject to this are "elopers". We've had cases where sros have tackled and hurt these kids.

Often the training given to teachers is useless. School systems rarely evaluate the training given to their staff and there is an attitude that since they provided something, everything is fine. Also the people who are aides in these classes often have little training or education themselves.

The reality is that many school administrators have no sympathy for these students and don't want the bother. They are usually as ignorant as the worst parents. If you go to teach in special ed and at your core feel that these kids are less than, there are going to be problems.

Don’t they need to have parents permission to do this? On our registration forms (public school) there is some sort of paragraph about this. I always check “no” (as in- no you are not allowed to put my kid in that room). My kids do not have any special needs and it has never come up, anyway. I have also never heard of them putting a kid in there (not that I necessarily would). I’m not even sure our school has such a room at all? Have had three kids at the school and know the layout etc very well and have volunteered a lot over the years.

Anonymous wrote:In the 60's in Maryland the vice principal had a paddle on the
wall of his office. All of the elementary school kids could see
it (glass walls). It was never used.

We virtually never had kids misbehave in any elementary
classes I was in.

Kids did not throw chairs and did not assault teachers or students in any classes I was in during the 60's and 70's.

It was a great environment for kids to learn.

The kids who would throw chairs were already in institutions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, parents advocated for their kids to be in inclusive mainstream schools and classes. Cake, meet eating it too.

What’s the alternative? Leave them in the classroom when having a meltdown where they could harm another student? Placing them in the hall won’t work, either. Trying to transport them to the office could cause big injuries because teachers cannot touch them. Honestly, while horrific sounding, these rooms seem like the best option.

My SIL has had her fingers and wrist broken on 3 separate occasions by out of control kids. Not many people outside of athletes can say that’s happened to them at work. There are absolutely kids who spend hours in these rooms because there is no other alternative according to her. Even the behavioral specialists cannot deescalate some kids.

Wrong. Kids being put in seclusion closets are already in self contained special ed classrooms (or schools). They have much smaller classes and the adult:kid ratio should be in the range of 1:4. They should have detailed behavioral plans being documented and followed that prevent most of these meltdowns from happening, and support from psychologists and behavior specialists. When a meltdown happens, the other students in the room should be moved out to another learning space (a pod in the hallway with books, for instance) and the child allowed to calm down without being touched or moved and then process with a teacher.

It takes on average 3-4 hours for my kid to Re-regulate himself. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Are you advocating that they rest of his class be moved to a pod with books and lose their learning opportunity while my kid is contained within the classroom for those hours?

Is he wildly out of control for 3-4 hours or can he safely be persuaded to relocate himself to a sensory room or somewhere else in the building after a little while? If he is wildly out of control for so long, he probably needs a medication adjustment/change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, parents advocated for their kids to be in inclusive mainstream schools and classes. Cake, meet eating it too.

What’s the alternative? Leave them in the classroom when having a meltdown where they could harm another student? Placing them in the hall won’t work, either. Trying to transport them to the office could cause big injuries because teachers cannot touch them. Honestly, while horrific sounding, these rooms seem like the best option.

My SIL has had her fingers and wrist broken on 3 separate occasions by out of control kids. Not many people outside of athletes can say that’s happened to them at work. There are absolutely kids who spend hours in these rooms because there is no other alternative according to her. Even the behavioral specialists cannot deescalate some kids.

Wrong. Kids being put in seclusion closets are already in self contained special ed classrooms (or schools). They have much smaller classes and the adult:kid ratio should be in the range of 1:4. They should have detailed behavioral plans being documented and followed that prevent most of these meltdowns from happening, and support from psychologists and behavior specialists. When a meltdown happens, the other students in the room should be moved out to another learning space (a pod in the hallway with books, for instance) and the child allowed to calm down without being touched or moved and then process with a teacher.

It takes on average 3-4 hours for my kid to Re-regulate himself. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Are you advocating that they rest of his class be moved to a pod with books and lose their learning opportunity while my kid is contained within the classroom for those hours?

here's the lawsuit against Fairfax
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.copaa.org/resource/resmgr/docs/2019_docs/2019.10.08_pl_s_complaint.pdf

Anonymous wrote:I mean, parents advocated for their kids to be in inclusive mainstream schools and classes. Cake, meet eating it too.

What’s the alternative? Leave them in the classroom when having a meltdown where they could harm another student? Placing them in the hall won’t work, either. Trying to transport them to the office could cause big injuries because teachers cannot touch them. Honestly, while horrific sounding, these rooms seem like the best option.

My SIL has had her fingers and wrist broken on 3 separate occasions by out of control kids. Not many people outside of athletes can say that’s happened to them at work. There are absolutely kids who spend hours in these rooms because there is no other alternative according to her. Even the behavioral specialists cannot deescalate some kids.

Wrong. Kids being put in seclusion closets are already in self contained special ed classrooms (or schools). They have much smaller classes and the adult:kid ratio should be in the range of 1:4. They should have detailed behavioral plans being documented and followed that prevent most of these meltdowns from happening, and support from psychologists and behavior specialists. When a meltdown happens, the other students in the room should be moved out to another learning space (a pod in the hallway with books, for instance) and the child allowed to calm down without being touched or moved and then process with a teacher.

in the 60s/70s kids with special needs were sent to special schools or residential schools. they weren't at your school. everyone knows this. now go away and let the grownups talk.

In the 60's in Maryland the vice principal had a paddle on the
wall of his office. All of the elementary school kids could see
it (glass walls). It was never used.

We virtually never had kids misbehave in any elementary
classes I was in.

Kids did not throw chairs and did not assault teachers or students in any classes I was in during the 60's and 70's.

It was a great environment for kids to learn.

Anonymous wrote:So the article is missing the other part - if this doesn't work, what does? Where is a system or protocol that keeps everyone safe, de-escalates the situation, allows teachers and students to keep teaching and learning and is not detrimental to kids?

What is the solution?

A scientific behavioral plan that studies the causes for the child’s behavior and works to prevent the meltdowns, and skill building. This requires trained behaviorialisrs and psychologists and a detailed plan. That’s much more expensive than a padded closet. Some kids do need medication and that is out of the schools hands.

There’s a lawsuit against FCPS for abusive use of these rooms in their public schools and in the contract schools they send disabled children to.

Loudon county
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/a-photo-emerges-and-a-va-school-systems-use-of-seclusion-comes-under-scrutiny/2018/05/26/c8f75658-3693-11e8-9c0a-85d477d9a226_story.html

Anonymous wrote:I mean, parents advocated for their kids to be in inclusive mainstream schools and classes. Cake, meet eating it too.

What’s the alternative? Leave them in the classroom when having a meltdown where they could harm another student? Placing them in the hall won’t work, either. Trying to transport them to the office could cause big injuries because teachers cannot touch them. Honestly, while horrific sounding, these rooms seem like the best option.

My SIL has had her fingers and wrist broken on 3 separate occasions by out of control kids. Not many people outside of athletes can say that’s happened to them at work. There are absolutely kids who spend hours in these rooms because there is no other alternative according to her. Even the behavioral specialists cannot deescalate some kids.

Your SIL needs a new job. Either her school and admin is crap or she is a crappy teacher. I have a family of teachers not one has been touched by a kid.
And were are talking taught kids that have ; abused kids, one went on to commit suicide, armed robberies, etc... Your SIL is not telling you the whole story.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wtf? One of the examples is a kid who wet his pants in the seclusion room and then pooped and was then left naked for almost an hour to run around swearing poop all over while the aide watched from outside and took notes.

This happened to a female student in my friend’s school. At one point, she was naked and covered in poop without so much as a blanket in the AC. My friend quit the next day.

But what is the alternative? If you had gone to school for the purpose of educating children and were making maybe 60k/year, would YOU physically restrain a child who is running around smearing poop?

If you had gone to a good school that teaches you that there are more than cookie cutter kids out in this world you would not get to the point of having a child smeared with feces. Teaching is not something you decide to do because your spouse got a good job on the hill and your degree in marketing is not marketable.