Anonymous wrote:Yes, POC can be racist too. They can also have legitimate reasons, like teachers not challenging their kids well because of stereotypes. When white people turn around and say "but POC do it too", it's justification for racist bias.

Try this exercise: if large numbers of middle class black people were sending their kids to a school with mostly black students, do you think that would change the minds of most white parents here? Or would they come up with other reasons? See discussion of Shepherd and Banneker.

Only black parents can have legitimate reasons?

Yes, POC can be racist too. They can also have legitimate reasons, like teachers not challenging their kids well because of stereotypes. When white people turn around and say "but POC do it too", it's justification for racist bias.

Try this exercise: if large numbers of middle class black people were sending their kids to a school with mostly black students, do you think that would change the minds of most white parents here? Or would they come up with other reasons? See discussion of Shepherd and Banneker.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

*chokes* Thousands?! I gave our (eotp) PTA $200 and felt awesome about myself. Is this what everyone else is giving?!

We live EOTP, not WOTP. But I know that the schools WOTP PTA provides things like instructors and programming for the higher achieving kids since DCPS will not.

Also, as someone else posted, a kid scoring 3.5 is going to get a ton of support to bring him to grade level. So sounds like they are much better at supporting those at the bottom (defined as 3 on PARCC) and those at the top.

Frankly, we would have no problem donating a few thousand to get those services.

But part of the reason a child making a 3 on the PARC will get so much attention WOTP is that there aren't many kids making 1 s and 2s, so 3s the resoruces like RTI. Same resources EOTP, but EOTP these resources are going to kids who are further behind. I think high acheiving kids can do great in a struggling school - they will stand out and get special attention because of it. It's the kids who are a year behind grade level rather than two or three years that limp along.

If high achieving kids are doing so great at title 1 schools, then why can’t they keep them in the upper elementary? Why are they not going to DCPS middle schools EOTP?
Why is 50% of the kids in DC go to charter schools? If you break down this 50% to WOTP and EOTP, it will be much, much higher than 50%.

The data doesn’t support your assertion above.

Racism. It explains a lot of it.

And yes, I've heard all the excuses like "but test scores", "but SES not race", "but POC do it too"... I hear you, but I don't believe you.

If you want to use the race card to blanket and explain all the problems with DCPS, that’s your choice.

But we as a minority parent along with our many AA friends disagree. We don’t see middle class AA friends sending their kids to the poor performing schools either. Not an option in their book at all. But sure, they don’t because they are racist too. No other reason for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

*chokes* Thousands?! I gave our (eotp) PTA $200 and felt awesome about myself. Is this what everyone else is giving?!

We live EOTP, not WOTP. But I know that the schools WOTP PTA provides things like instructors and programming for the higher achieving kids since DCPS will not.

Also, as someone else posted, a kid scoring 3.5 is going to get a ton of support to bring him to grade level. So sounds like they are much better at supporting those at the bottom (defined as 3 on PARCC) and those at the top.

Frankly, we would have no problem donating a few thousand to get those services.

But part of the reason a child making a 3 on the PARC will get so much attention WOTP is that there aren't many kids making 1 s and 2s, so 3s the resoruces like RTI. Same resources EOTP, but EOTP these resources are going to kids who are further behind. I think high acheiving kids can do great in a struggling school - they will stand out and get special attention because of it. It's the kids who are a year behind grade level rather than two or three years that limp along.

If high achieving kids are doing so great at title 1 schools, then why can’t they keep them in the upper elementary? Why are they not going to DCPS middle schools EOTP?
Why is 50% of the kids in DC go to charter schools? If you break down this 50% to WOTP and EOTP, it will be much, much higher than 50%.

The data doesn’t support your assertion above.

Racism. It explains a lot of it.

And yes, I've heard all the excuses like "but test scores", "but SES not race", "but POC do it too"... I hear you, but I don't believe you.

It’s not that EOTP parents with high achieving kids don’t want to send their kids to their neighborhood schools either. Many do start in ECE but most will bail by 3rd if not sooner. The achievement gap widens as you go up in elemnatevty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

*chokes* Thousands?! I gave our (eotp) PTA $200 and felt awesome about myself. Is this what everyone else is giving?!

We live EOTP, not WOTP. But I know that the schools WOTP PTA provides things like instructors and programming for the higher achieving kids since DCPS will not.

Also, as someone else posted, a kid scoring 3.5 is going to get a ton of support to bring him to grade level. So sounds like they are much better at supporting those at the bottom (defined as 3 on PARCC) and those at the top.

Frankly, we would have no problem donating a few thousand to get those services.

But part of the reason a child making a 3 on the PARC will get so much attention WOTP is that there aren't many kids making 1 s and 2s, so 3s the resoruces like RTI. Same resources EOTP, but EOTP these resources are going to kids who are further behind. I think high acheiving kids can do great in a struggling school - they will stand out and get special attention because of it. It's the kids who are a year behind grade level rather than two or three years that limp along.

If high achieving kids are doing so great at title 1 schools, then why can’t they keep them in the upper elementary? Why are they not going to DCPS middle schools EOTP?
Why is 50% of the kids in DC go to charter schools? If you break down this 50% to WOTP and EOTP, it will be much, much higher than 50%.

The data doesn’t support your assertion above.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

*chokes* Thousands?! I gave our (eotp) PTA $200 and felt awesome about myself. Is this what everyone else is giving?!

We live EOTP, not WOTP. But I know that the schools WOTP PTA provides things like instructors and programming for the higher achieving kids since DCPS will not.

Also, as someone else posted, a kid scoring 3.5 is going to get a ton of support to bring him to grade level. So sounds like they are much better at supporting those at the bottom (defined as 3 on PARCC) and those at the top.

Frankly, we would have no problem donating a few thousand to get those services.

But part of the reason a child making a 3 on the PARC will get so much attention WOTP is that there aren't many kids making 1 s and 2s, so 3s the resoruces like RTI. Same resources EOTP, but EOTP these resources are going to kids who are further behind. I think high acheiving kids can do great in a struggling school - they will stand out and get special attention because of it. It's the kids who are a year behind grade level rather than two or three years that limp along.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

*chokes* Thousands?! I gave our (eotp) PTA $200 and felt awesome about myself. Is this what everyone else is giving?!

We live EOTP, not WOTP. But I know that the schools WOTP PTA provides things like instructors and programming for the higher achieving kids since DCPS will not.

Also, as someone else posted, a kid scoring 3.5 is going to get a ton of support to bring him to grade level. So sounds like they are much better at supporting those at the bottom (defined as 3 on PARCC) and those at the top.

Frankly, we would have no problem donating a few thousand to get those services.

Not all WOTP schools do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

*chokes* Thousands?! I gave our (eotp) PTA $200 and felt awesome about myself. Is this what everyone else is giving?!

We live EOTP, not WOTP. But I know that the schools WOTP PTA provides things like instructors and programming for the higher achieving kids since DCPS will not.

Also, as someone else posted, a kid scoring 3.5 is going to get a ton of support to bring him to grade level. So sounds like they are much better at supporting those at the bottom (defined as 3 on PARCC) and those at the top.

Frankly, we would have no problem donating a few thousand to get those services.

$200 is perfectly reasonable, although if you’re able to swing $1,000 and you think the PTA would spend it wisely then why not?

I don’t think that the thousands that I donated WOTP made a difference, and may not donate so much again this year. My kids got more attention EOTP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

*chokes* Thousands?! I gave our (eotp) PTA $200 and felt awesome about myself. Is this what everyone else is giving?!

We live EOTP, not WOTP. But I know that the schools WOTP PTA provides things like instructors and programming for the higher achieving kids since DCPS will not.

Also, as someone else posted, a kid scoring 3.5 is going to get a ton of support to bring him to grade level. So sounds like they are much better at supporting those at the bottom (defined as 3 on PARCC) and those at the top.

Frankly, we would have no problem donating a few thousand to get those services.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

*chokes* Thousands?! I gave our (eotp) PTA $200 and felt awesome about myself. Is this what everyone else is giving?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

This varies. My child was struggling at an EOTP school, but not enough to register. When your child gets a mid-3 on the PARCC but many other kids are getting 1s and 2s, no alarms will sound. When we moved WOTP, the school was ALL OVER him. He went from a middle performer to a low preformer who merited specialized and individual attention for the first time. It was a game changer. No regrets.

I would agree with this 100 percent. We left an EOTP school for an affluent EOTP school that resembles a WOTP school and boy were we surprised. Our children are average compared to above average at their previous school. I was also told schools set their own grading scales although they all have the same curriculum. One of the teachers even told me the school is really rigorous compared to her previous DCPS school. At her old although they had a curriculum, many kids were unable to follow assignments as they were behind in the basics so she pretty much had to align the work based on the needs to the students. To all the parents raving about report card 4s at up and coming schools, relax.

Not surprised about this.

It’s called dumbing down the curriculum to the majority. If the overwhelming majority are not even at grade level, then your middle class kid who is at or above grade level is going to cruise by which is not a good thing. Peer groups are important in understanding perspective and relativity.

In addition, higher achieving peer groups also tends to motivate with competition and challenge the kids to do better

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

This varies. My child was struggling at an EOTP school, but not enough to register. When your child gets a mid-3 on the PARCC but many other kids are getting 1s and 2s, no alarms will sound. When we moved WOTP, the school was ALL OVER him. He went from a middle performer to a low preformer who merited specialized and individual attention for the first time. It was a game changer. No regrets.

I would agree with this 100 percent. We left an EOTP school for an affluent EOTP school that resembles a WOTP school and boy were we surprised. Our children are average compared to above average at their previous school. I was also told schools set their own grading scales although they all have the same curriculum. One of the teachers even told me the school is really rigorous compared to her previous DCPS school. At her old although they had a curriculum, many kids were unable to follow assignments as they were behind in the basics so she pretty much had to align the work based on the needs to the students. To all the parents raving about report card 4s at up and coming schools, relax.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.

This varies. My child was struggling at an EOTP school, but not enough to register. When your child gets a mid-3 on the PARCC but many other kids are getting 1s and 2s, no alarms will sound. When we moved WOTP, the school was ALL OVER him. He went from a middle performer to a low preformer who merited specialized and individual attention for the first time. It was a game changer. No regrets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Switched EOTP to WOTP elementary, and kind of regret it. I don't think WOTP is significantly better in the ways I care about. And in some ways it's worse in ways that I do care about. Both are fine, I just can't get too excited about WOTP.

Could you elaborate on the specific things that you care about?

Individual attention from teachers. I think the academic challenge was actually better EOTP in some ways. WOTP does have now cool stuff that the PTA bus, but I can also supplement that EOTP and maybe benefit some kids who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to it.

More diverse learning environment. There's a lot the kids are learning other than academics. I'd like my kids to be capable of working with anyone. WOTP is kind of sheltered. At least for elementary school.

EOTP, the mean kids/bullies aren't generally the kids of the super PTA parents. I think there's some reluctance from WOTP teachers to address these issues with bratty kids.

PTA/dues. There's a lot of pressure to donate thousands to the PTA.

Parents community. While the kids experience is more of a focus, I connect much better with the parents EOTP. I don't do well with snobs.

Commute. Sucks.