Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Separated for 18 months. Kid is actually doing better now than he was in marriage.
I honestly don’t understand about the “damage”. Son had a few questions but they were mostly related to his his life is going to be. He was mostly upset about lack of videogames it seems (eyeroll).

The concern is - do you really know what's going on inside his head? It is not uncommon for kids to be so worried and anxious they shut down and refuse to talk about it, or to be “taking cover” when parents are angry or depressed, or to feel protective thus keep silent to shield parents from additional worry.

I'm a child of divorce and my mom had no idea what was going on inside my head. Huge anxiety, fear of abandonment, feeling like I'd done something wrong to cause daddy to go away, etc. etc.

I have seen him before and after. He is becoming more relaxed, less high strung, more cooperative.
Ideally I would love therapy for him but we had some pretty bad experience so maybe later.

DCUM will say money doesn't matter.

No, that is not what the women of DCUM write. Quite the opposite.

But in the course of getting to know each other, the questions about kids would come up. "Where do your kids go to school?" Mine is in private. His response was "that's over $10K a year". My response was "something like that". When school closed for snow, I would take my kids away---we either went skiing or to Florida depending upon where I could get a flight. I WFH and have the flexibility to work wherever. He could not grasp just going skiing or to the beach on the spur of the moment.

The vast majority of people lack the ability to fly to Florida because school is closed for snow.

Dating is ridiculously hard.

And you make it harder by not accepting that most available men can’t fly to Florida just because.

Anonymous wrote: Why do you want a divorce, op? You say your special needs kid is a huge handful. Why not spend more time with him? I'm serious. You mention your working hours, and I'm wondering if you are using work as an escape? I'd say this if you were a man too.
Why not spend some time working on your marriage? Again, I'm being serious.
Know that if you divorce, you may not meet anybody you want to be with. You can probably find a friends with bennifits, but if you want more, it may not happen. Men don't typically care how much a woman makes. Men aren't lining up to be dads when they have no legal authority for a child that they can't legally adopt. The courts don't care about stepparents. Be aware that there are people who can be cruel to a person with a disability, no matter how mild and they can rationalize it as "tough love" "helping him grow up" "giving you a break" all types of nice sounding words. How will you evaluate the men you date to know how they will treat a child who by your own words is a "huge handful?" Conversely, how will you evaluate men who may have your kid's best interests at heart but they are telling you things you don't want to hear? My mom has a saying that "a child's greatest special need is his/her mother". The older I get, and the more moms I meet, the more I think I agree with her.

How will you have time to date if you are so busy at work and taking care of your kids? Again, I'm being serious. Don't think that you are so awesome men will just stand by waiting for you to meet for coffee or a drink when you have 20 minutes to spare. No woman is, at least not if they are interested in healthy men. Since you have children, you do need to be aware of the nasty men out there who have an unhealthy interest in children, both sexually and otherwise. They are always up for a quick drink since they aren't really interested in you as a woman or a person.
Since you want to date (and yes, I'm the poster that suggested it on another thread) try dating your husband. Do things together and really enjoy each other in every sense of the word. If you don't go to church, do that, I love sitting with my husband at church. He is appropriately affectionate and I always love that. The added bonus is that we either hear something we like, or we hear something we can make fun of. Either way, it gives us even more to talk about. That's always a good thing.

SN take a toll on your life. By the time my "free" time comes, I either want to crawl into bed and be grateful no one is yelling for me. Or open a bottle of wine and then crawl into bed. I'm not capable of making intelligent conversation and it's just too hard. I just want to be a lump on a log. Lumps are not good dates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is expensive. We did ours through mediation, agreed on everything, and only hired lawyers to review and I still paid out over $10k when it was all said and done. If you sell the house, there are closing costs, if you keep it, there are costs to refinance. If you move, there are moving costs, security deposits, you have to buy some furniture, etc.

Your kids will be hurt by this. I don’t know that they will be any more hurt by it than if you stay in a dysfunctional marriage, but you will need to face the fact that this is going to shape them and how they view relationships. You need to get them in to therapy, which is another cost. If your ex disagrees, he can also prevent them from getting it.

Dating is a mixed bag. I don’t know what problems you are having in your marriage, but you can assume that any future dating partners are going to carry similar baggage. It’s easy to find dates as a single mom. It’s hard to find a quality, long term committed partner. Most men who will understand your situation will also have kids, which means their custody schedules may not match, so you have limited free time. They may have high amounts of child support and alimony they are paying to their former spouses, and that can Be limiting and a stress if you eventually decide to be committed long term. They may have a crazy ex spouse who will be problematic for you.

Blended families have an extremely high divorce rate.

All that said, I love my new life. I love the independence, the freedom to date, the freedom to not date. The freedom to parent as I please, the freedom to be 100% myself.

I was hesitant to chime in since I don't know OPs situation and don't want to encourage or discourage divorce. But regarding dating, and assuming she's fit and attractive, this is exactly the truth, especially the underlined part.

Look at it this way. You thought you had problems with one spouse. Second marriage or partner you have to deal with their kids that you rather not spend time with. Unwanted guests around the holidays stealing your child's time and space. Exes that won't go away, or who are intrusive because they still have bad feelings. Finances that are still supporting kids for years to come. When you want to go on vacation your new partner won't go unless their kids are invited. Doesn't matter if their kids have different breaks from yours they insist you can't do it separately. Vacations end up being a nightmare.

These are just a few of the problems. Trying to work out a 1st marriage is always best unless of course it's impossible.

But I have dated a few men. The ones that I'm interested in are engaged fathers. That's a positive trait to me. That usually means we see each other once or twice before we acknowledge that this has no hope of going forward because neither of us has the time or the energy. I dated a guy who lived 1/2 mile from me because he was convenient. A relationship should not be built upon convenience. We were at different places financially. DCUM will say money doesn't matter. But in the course of getting to know each other, the questions about kids would come up. "Where do your kids go to school?" Mine is in private. His response was "that's over $10K a year". My response was "something like that". When school closed for snow, I would take my kids away---we either went skiing or to Florida depending upon where I could get a flight. I WFH and have the flexibility to work wherever. He could not grasp just going skiing or to the beach on the spur of the moment.

Dating is ridiculously hard. I go out with my girl friends a lot because they get it. They're in the same boat. We often joke that all the good men that we would want to date are still married.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Separated for 18 months. Kid is actually doing better now than he was in marriage.
I honestly don’t understand about the “damage”. Son had a few questions but they were mostly related to his his life is going to be. He was mostly upset about lack of videogames it seems (eyeroll).

The concern is - do you really know what's going on inside his head? It is not uncommon for kids to be so worried and anxious they shut down and refuse to talk about it, or to be “taking cover” when parents are angry or depressed, or to feel protective thus keep silent to shield parents from additional worry.

I'm a child of divorce and my mom had no idea what was going on inside my head. Huge anxiety, fear of abandonment, feeling like I'd done something wrong to cause daddy to go away, etc. etc.

This. Kids are prone to telling adults what the adults want to hear. And adults are prone to accepting it. Kids are just not mature enough to predict how they will feel in the future and often the kids don't know the whole story. For example, I thought my parents'divorce was the right call because they fought so much, but several years later I found out about my mother's affair and was devastated at her poor character and all the lies I realized she had been telling us. Another example, as a teenager I never thought about how my own children would have to divide up grandparent time, but as an adult I really struggle with doing the extra travel and feel sad that my kids are getting less. I'm not saying kids' opinions are worthless, but you have to look at them in context.

Dating is the least of your problems, Op. You seem in denial of that.

From the outside looking in, OP, it seems that you are in a world of denial if dating is what you are asking about here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait a year to date? Would people give a man the same advice? I doubt it. Good luck and don’t stay lonely and celibate for a year, get out there!

Lawyer will say wait a year to date because adultery is a crime in many states and cause for an at-fault divorce and a bitter ex can hire a PI to prove it and you are basically screwed if they want to go to war.

Funny, my lawyer didn’t say that.

My lawyer didn't say that either. DCUM's legal advice is awful! All that happens is that the spouse (me) that had the affair can't get spousal support. Other than that, we split everything 50/50 and went 50/50 on custody. He gives me #1,000 a month in child support. He wanted to keep all the savings, but the court really didn't care that I cheated, as long as I was not expecting alimony. He fought, I admitted to the affair, and we still ended up exactly where we were in our first meeting with the mediator. Could have saved 10K had he not fought so hard....

FWIW....I am a woman and I am the one that cheated, ended my marriage, and got remarried 2 years later with my AP.

The ink is barely dry on my divorce papers, so I'll offer my perspective:

1. I love not walking on eggshells in my own home. My days are more calm in that regard.
2. Life has been very chaotic. In my case, I have the kids almost 100%, work a demanding job, and just bought a fixer-upper house. I'm totally overwhelmed.
3. I'm haunted by my relationship with my ex. I'm completely over him, however, we divorced because he cheated. I cannot seem to get over the lies and betrayal. I have a lot of emotional work to do.
4. Finances are tighter, but at least my ex reliably pays child support.
5. I worry a lot about my kids. They don't understand what happened -- too young to understand infidelity. My ex doesn't make much of an effort to see them, which is heartbreaking because they are such awesome kids.
6. I feel a twinge of embarrassment over being divorced. It feels like a huge life failure. But my close family and friends (and even my ex's family) know the circumstances and see that my ex is going through a bizarre midlife crisis. Having a support system is everything.
6. Due to 2 and 3 above, I haven't even considered dating. I hope to get there one day, but I'm just not ready yet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is expensive. We did ours through mediation, agreed on everything, and only hired lawyers to review and I still paid out over $10k when it was all said and done. If you sell the house, there are closing costs, if you keep it, there are costs to refinance. If you move, there are moving costs, security deposits, you have to buy some furniture, etc.

Your kids will be hurt by this. I don’t know that they will be any more hurt by it than if you stay in a dysfunctional marriage, but you will need to face the fact that this is going to shape them and how they view relationships. You need to get them in to therapy, which is another cost. If your ex disagrees, he can also prevent them from getting it.

Dating is a mixed bag. I don’t know what problems you are having in your marriage, but you can assume that any future dating partners are going to carry similar baggage. It’s easy to find dates as a single mom. It’s hard to find a quality, long term committed partner. Most men who will understand your situation will also have kids, which means their custody schedules may not match, so you have limited free time. They may have high amounts of child support and alimony they are paying to their former spouses, and that can Be limiting and a stress if you eventually decide to be committed long term. They may have a crazy ex spouse who will be problematic for you.

Blended families have an extremely high divorce rate.

All that said, I love my new life. I love the independence, the freedom to date, the freedom to not date. The freedom to parent as I please, the freedom to be 100% myself.

I was hesitant to chime in since I don't know OPs situation and don't want to encourage or discourage divorce. But regarding dating, and assuming she's fit and attractive, this is exactly the truth, especially the underlined part.

I'm not either PP but a friend said something similar to me during a difficult time in her marraige and I think of it often during difficult times in mine. Barring significant issues of abuse, addiction etc - EVERYONE is going to have some issues. She basically said to me look, I ultimately decided that J (her DH) is going to bother me, but so would someone else, and frankly the potential risks of divorce are simply not worth the potential rewards, at least not at this point.

Of course that's not true for everyone.

Who gets divorced just because their spouse "bothers" them? Really? Personally I am divorcing because the situation is untenable, and I don't really GAF about who I date after. Do people truly divorce just because they are a bit bored?

Those people cheat. People who don't hate their marriage and are bored cheat, which is why no one actually has the "open marriage" conversation that the idiot wife did on the other thread. If everyone who was bored got divorced, the divorce rate would be 90%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are worried about dating? I would be worried about my kids

I am about to be divorced - as in, papers are signed and filed, STBX has bought a new place and will move out soon, and we are about to tell the kids - and yeah dating is the farthest thing from my mind now. Breaks my heart to think of the bomb we're going to drop on the kids. Think it will be a surprise because we have not had any overt conflicts in front of them.

Trust me when I tell you they know more than you think and may not be surprised or shocked. That said, this will permanently mess them up. Be sure they are in therapy. Even if they think they are fine, the amount of damage you and your ex are inflicting on them can not be overstated. And staying together would likely be worse.

Interesting you say this. My friends kids actually wanted them to divorce as they were all unhappy and the tension /conflict was palpable. They had a pretty amicable separation as both were more than done with the marriage and they had been living pretty separate lives for awhile. Even with all that, 2 of the 3 kids spiraled down after the divorce and were really impacted by it. They are about 7 years out now and everyone is fine but there were 2-3 really, really rough years for everyone. My friend says that despite how much better it was for her, she probably would have stayed until the kids were out of the house as seeing the impact on them was far worse. She also realizes though that they could also have been messed up if she had stayed with all the dysfunction in the house.

I took my parent's divorce just fine. It was the dating and remarriages that had a lasting effect.

Seriously check out StepTalk.org ...it’s completely turned me off from looking for a LTR until DCs are in College

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is expensive. We did ours through mediation, agreed on everything, and only hired lawyers to review and I still paid out over $10k when it was all said and done. If you sell the house, there are closing costs, if you keep it, there are costs to refinance. If you move, there are moving costs, security deposits, you have to buy some furniture, etc.

Your kids will be hurt by this. I don’t know that they will be any more hurt by it than if you stay in a dysfunctional marriage, but you will need to face the fact that this is going to shape them and how they view relationships. You need to get them in to therapy, which is another cost. If your ex disagrees, he can also prevent them from getting it.

Dating is a mixed bag. I don’t know what problems you are having in your marriage, but you can assume that any future dating partners are going to carry similar baggage. It’s easy to find dates as a single mom. It’s hard to find a quality, long term committed partner. Most men who will understand your situation will also have kids, which means their custody schedules may not match, so you have limited free time. They may have high amounts of child support and alimony they are paying to their former spouses, and that can Be limiting and a stress if you eventually decide to be committed long term. They may have a crazy ex spouse who will be problematic for you.

Blended families have an extremely high divorce rate.

All that said, I love my new life. I love the independence, the freedom to date, the freedom to not date. The freedom to parent as I please, the freedom to be 100% myself.

I was hesitant to chime in since I don't know OPs situation and don't want to encourage or discourage divorce. But regarding dating, and assuming she's fit and attractive, this is exactly the truth, especially the underlined part.

Look at it this way. You thought you had problems with one spouse. Second marriage or partner you have to deal with their kids that you rather not spend time with. Unwanted guests around the holidays stealing your child's time and space. Exes that won't go away, or who are intrusive because they still have bad feelings. Finances that are still supporting kids for years to come. When you want to go on vacation your new partner won't go unless their kids are invited. Doesn't matter if their kids have different breaks from yours they insist you can't do it separately. Vacations end up being a nightmare.

These are just a few of the problems. Trying to work out a 1st marriage is always best unless of course it's impossible.

Ok so ... there's no rule that women (or any divorced person) needs to find a second partner or second marriage. If the first marriage is miserable and dysfunctional, you get out of it for that reason. Do I hope that I might meet someone better? Of course. But if you told me right now, "you will never have another relationship with a man again" I would STILL divorce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Separated for 18 months. Kid is actually doing better now than he was in marriage.
I honestly don’t understand about the “damage”. Son had a few questions but they were mostly related to his his life is going to be. He was mostly upset about lack of videogames it seems (eyeroll).

The concern is - do you really know what's going on inside his head? It is not uncommon for kids to be so worried and anxious they shut down and refuse to talk about it, or to be “taking cover” when parents are angry or depressed, or to feel protective thus keep silent to shield parents from additional worry.

I'm a child of divorce and my mom had no idea what was going on inside my head. Huge anxiety, fear of abandonment, feeling like I'd done something wrong to cause daddy to go away, etc. etc.

yeah, it is extremely naive to be "oh, my kid is fine, no problem!"

Divorced for two years from a serial cheater who had no desire to reform, and it's hard but I can see some light at the end of the tunnel.

Kids are not "unbelievably messed up," but they also aren't untouched by the whole situation. My therapist says that research shows it takes about two years for kids to get back on the same emotional footing as their peers with married parents. That assumes the adults handle themselves well. It is longer if the parents are feuding.

One one hand, that's a big chunk of their childhood. On the other, sometimes the check is in the mail on the divorce and you just need to pull off the bandaid.

You have a lot going for you in terms of career and income, which helps. Being younger also helps. I wish I'd left after the "first" affair (which was just the first I learned of).

At any rate, good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is expensive. We did ours through mediation, agreed on everything, and only hired lawyers to review and I still paid out over $10k when it was all said and done. If you sell the house, there are closing costs, if you keep it, there are costs to refinance. If you move, there are moving costs, security deposits, you have to buy some furniture, etc.

Your kids will be hurt by this. I don’t know that they will be any more hurt by it than if you stay in a dysfunctional marriage, but you will need to face the fact that this is going to shape them and how they view relationships. You need to get them in to therapy, which is another cost. If your ex disagrees, he can also prevent them from getting it.

Dating is a mixed bag. I don’t know what problems you are having in your marriage, but you can assume that any future dating partners are going to carry similar baggage. It’s easy to find dates as a single mom. It’s hard to find a quality, long term committed partner. Most men who will understand your situation will also have kids, which means their custody schedules may not match, so you have limited free time. They may have high amounts of child support and alimony they are paying to their former spouses, and that can Be limiting and a stress if you eventually decide to be committed long term. They may have a crazy ex spouse who will be problematic for you.

Blended families have an extremely high divorce rate.

All that said, I love my new life. I love the independence, the freedom to date, the freedom to not date. The freedom to parent as I please, the freedom to be 100% myself.

I was hesitant to chime in since I don't know OPs situation and don't want to encourage or discourage divorce. But regarding dating, and assuming she's fit and attractive, this is exactly the truth, especially the underlined part.

Look at it this way. You thought you had problems with one spouse. Second marriage or partner you have to deal with their kids that you rather not spend time with. Unwanted guests around the holidays stealing your child's time and space. Exes that won't go away, or who are intrusive because they still have bad feelings. Finances that are still supporting kids for years to come. When you want to go on vacation your new partner won't go unless their kids are invited. Doesn't matter if their kids have different breaks from yours they insist you can't do it separately. Vacations end up being a nightmare.

These are just a few of the problems. Trying to work out a 1st marriage is always best unless of course it's impossible.

Why do you want a divorce, op? You say your special needs kid is a huge handful. Why not spend more time with him? I'm serious. You mention your working hours, and I'm wondering if you are using work as an escape? I'd say this if you were a man too.
Why not spend some time working on your marriage? Again, I'm being serious.
Know that if you divorce, you may not meet anybody you want to be with. You can probably find a friends with bennifits, but if you want more, it may not happen. Men don't typically care how much a woman makes. Men aren't lining up to be dads when they have no legal authority for a child that they can't legally adopt. The courts don't care about stepparents. Be aware that there are people who can be cruel to a person with a disability, no matter how mild and they can rationalize it as "tough love" "helping him grow up" "giving you a break" all types of nice sounding words. How will you evaluate the men you date to know how they will treat a child who by your own words is a "huge handful?" Conversely, how will you evaluate men who may have your kid's best interests at heart but they are telling you things you don't want to hear? My mom has a saying that "a child's greatest special need is his/her mother". The older I get, and the more moms I meet, the more I think I agree with her.

How will you have time to date if you are so busy at work and taking care of your kids? Again, I'm being serious. Don't think that you are so awesome men will just stand by waiting for you to meet for coffee or a drink when you have 20 minutes to spare. No woman is, at least not if they are interested in healthy men. Since you have children, you do need to be aware of the nasty men out there who have an unhealthy interest in children, both sexually and otherwise. They are always up for a quick drink since they aren't really interested in you as a woman or a person.
Since you want to date (and yes, I'm the poster that suggested it on another thread) try dating your husband. Do things together and really enjoy each other in every sense of the word. If you don't go to church, do that, I love sitting with my husband at church. He is appropriately affectionate and I always love that. The added bonus is that we either hear something we like, or we hear something we can make fun of. Either way, it gives us even more to talk about. That's always a good thing.