I just don’t see parents wielding that kind of authority over their one or two children unless there is a family fortune involved

This. Everyone are less indebted to extended family, financially. People want genuine relationships. Relationships between equals. Much healthier relationships. Spending time together without some fear of financial repercussions.

Anonymous wrote:My gosh, I have such positive feelings about family matriarchs. I guess it’s cultural. I’m mixed AA. For my extended family to have elder women as a resource speaks volumes about resilience and strong bonds of kinship. My grandmother never had a lot of money, but she had wisdom, endless love, the ability to conjure amazing meals out of scraps, patience, and just an all-around healing presence. She was a leader in our community. Of course, we all gathered in her home for holidays and other meaningful events. When she passed away, no one else immediately emerged to lead the family and we all drifted away. The next two decades saw some bad times. My mom isn’t cut out temperamentally to handle being matriarch and her sister is too ill. My cousins and I would love to give our kids that same experience, but I think it’s too late.

Just last month, I witnessed over 200 people travel from 20 states and three nations to honor a distant relative by marriage turning 75. Standing on DH’s family land that her own grandfather defended from the KKK and looking out at teachers, lawyers, engineers, doctors, bankers, authors, government officials, and law enforcement officers in the family she led filled me with awe.

Thanks for posting. Wonderful families.

Anonymous wrote:My MIL absolutely fancies herself the matriarch. She would prefer that I don't have any family at all. 20+ years and she is still shocked that we ever spend time with my family at the holidays. She 100% believed/s that she should express her opinion about lots of things that make up our family culture. She was not thrilled about me breastfeeding and said so, often. She has never been happy about my religion and is clearly embarrassed by having grandchildren raised in my religion vs. hers. I pay her zero attention and never respond to any of her crap with anything but, "Mmmm." "Oh?" "Hmmm." "Yes, I know it's hard to accept, but I have a family too and we are going to see them at some point over the holiday."

Are you the one who told off her mil over the Thanksgiving table for trying to keep you from seeing your family every holiday? I love that story.

My MIL absolutely fancies herself the matriarch. She would prefer that I don't have any family at all. 20+ years and she is still shocked that we ever spend time with my family at the holidays. She 100% believed/s that she should express her opinion about lots of things that make up our family culture. She was not thrilled about me breastfeeding and said so, often. She has never been happy about my religion and is clearly embarrassed by having grandchildren raised in my religion vs. hers. I pay her zero attention and never respond to any of her crap with anything but, "Mmmm." "Oh?" "Hmmm." "Yes, I know it's hard to accept, but I have a family too and we are going to see them at some point over the holiday."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.

I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.

I agree with this. My MIL felt it was "her turn" but that dynamic just doesn't exist today in our family. She also saw it as an opportunity to control people and get her way, as opposed to a responsibility to keep family together, ensure everyone's accomplishments are celebrated, and lay the foundation for relatives to be supportive of each other. I've seen it work well when the matriarch tries to bring people together as opposed to expecting everyone to give into petulant demands.

The matriarch is definitely phasing out. The last one in my family was my aunt, but she stopped well before she died. My mom definitely isn't one, but she wouldn't have been even if cultural dynamics hadn't changed. Today's culture just doesn't seem to support it as well. My sister and I make an effort to stay in touch even though we live in different states, but I wouldn't say either one if the matriarch. I definitely plan to lay the foundation for my kids to stay close, but not sure if I'll ever be a matriarch, although I'm not opposed to it. It does seem to be more a thing of the past. This has me thinking . . .

Great post OP.

x100000

My MIL felt it was "her turn" but that dynamic just doesn't exist today in our family. She also saw it as an opportunity to control people and get her way, as opposed to a responsibility to keep family together, ensure everyone's accomplishments are celebrated, and lay the foundation for relatives to be supportive of each other. I've seen it work well when the matriarch tries to bring people together as opposed to expecting everyone to give into petulant demands.

This X100. My MIL thinks this is what is going with on with the aunt that wants to control holidays. As the youngest, this is her chance to be in control of everyone else but they are simply having none of it so it makes the aunt even more crazy. The aunt doesn't have kids has a whole host of problems ranging from jealousy, resentment to trying to insert herself so she gets a turn in controlling others. She doesn't understand that the only way it work to be in charge of these things is to care about what others wants. She sees it as chance to get her way and be showered with adulation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.

I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.

Culture and values? Such as what?

Family culture: Parenting practices, breastfeeding, childcare, egalitarian parenting or traditional gender roles, parenting girls vs. boys and how that is done, views re: screen time, how to spend holidays (formal, informal, when to open gifts, what kind of gifts are given), food, music, religion. The list goes on.

Values: Private school, public school, religious education and practice, various areas of ethics, political views.

Why would a MIL feel she had any say in any of this? Literally none of this is anyone's business but mom and dad. Breastfeeding; are you kidding?

My MIL didn't have any say about me breastfeeding, but she had an opinion for sure. No one in DH's family had done so and my ILs thought it was strange. More than once, FIL asked me when I was going to "stop doing that."

I've been married for 24 years and MIL still tells me to use paper plates when we have them over for a meal. I've never in my life used paper plates and don't intend to - I like entertaining with nice china. MIL is much more bare-boned about these things and their way of doing holidays when DH was going up was much less formal than my family's was.

The ILs also don't understand our choices to forgo TV before our kids were about eight; sending our kids to private liberal arts colleges; me raising our kids as Christian (ILs are Jewish); me working FT (I make much more money than DH does); me not putting egg in potato salad, LOL; spending $$$ on music lessons. The list goes on.

The family that DH and I have created skews much more to my family of origin's way of doing things than it does to DH's family. Why? Because as the mother, I set the tone for our family. Are there other families who are more influenced by the dad's family of origin? Probably, but I imagine they are in a minority.

The battle for the matriarchy.

Wow. You and your MIL deserve each other. lol

Dh and I both set the tone for our nuclear family because we are equal partners.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.

I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.

Culture and values? Such as what?

Family culture: Parenting practices, breastfeeding, childcare, egalitarian parenting or traditional gender roles, parenting girls vs. boys and how that is done, views re: screen time, how to spend holidays (formal, informal, when to open gifts, what kind of gifts are given), food, music, religion. The list goes on.

Values: Private school, public school, religious education and practice, various areas of ethics, political views.

Why would a MIL feel she had any say in any of this? Literally none of this is anyone's business but mom and dad. Breastfeeding; are you kidding?

My MIL didn't have any say about me breastfeeding, but she had an opinion for sure. No one in DH's family had done so and my ILs thought it was strange. More than once, FIL asked me when I was going to "stop doing that."

I've been married for 24 years and MIL still tells me to use paper plates when we have them over for a meal. I've never in my life used paper plates and don't intend to - I like entertaining with nice china. MIL is much more bare-boned about these things and their way of doing holidays when DH was going up was much less formal than my family's was.

The ILs also don't understand our choices to forgo TV before our kids were about eight; sending our kids to private liberal arts colleges; me raising our kids as Christian (ILs are Jewish); me working FT (I make much more money than DH does); me not putting egg in potato salad, LOL; spending $$$ on music lessons. The list goes on.

The family that DH and I have created skews much more to my family of origin's way of doing things than it does to DH's family. Why? Because as the mother, I set the tone for our family. Are there other families who are more influenced by the dad's family of origin? Probably, but I imagine they are in a minority.

The battle for the matriarchy.

It's not a "battle" if you just say no, or shrug, or smile blandly and say "hmm" and keep doing what you want.

Oh, I agree - I don't go to battle over any of this sort of thing.

My point is that when MIL says e.g., "use paper plates," and i don't (because that's not how I do things), or when I invite the ILs to a child's baptism and they decline because as Jews, they don't want to attend their grandchild's baptism, the effect is that I've established the culture/practices/religion etc. for DH's and my family, as distinct from DH's family of origin.

My theory is that this jockeying for ownership of family culture is the root of MIL/DIL conflicts.

Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.

I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.

I agree with this. My MIL felt it was "her turn" but that dynamic just doesn't exist today in our family. She also saw it as an opportunity to control people and get her way, as opposed to a responsibility to keep family together, ensure everyone's accomplishments are celebrated, and lay the foundation for relatives to be supportive of each other. I've seen it work well when the matriarch tries to bring people together as opposed to expecting everyone to give into petulant demands.

The matriarch is definitely phasing out. The last one in my family was my aunt, but she stopped well before she died. My mom definitely isn't one, but she wouldn't have been even if cultural dynamics hadn't changed. Today's culture just doesn't seem to support it as well. My sister and I make an effort to stay in touch even though we live in different states, but I wouldn't say either one if the matriarch. I definitely plan to lay the foundation for my kids to stay close, but not sure if I'll ever be a matriarch, although I'm not opposed to it. It does seem to be more a thing of the past. This has me thinking . . .

Great post OP.

It's not a "battle" if you just say no, or shrug, or smile blandly and say "hmm" and keep doing what you want.

This X100. DH's grandmother has always hosted on his side of the family. She is a firm believer in boundaries and never once pushed any control or advice on parenting or anything else on her kids or grandchildren. Holidays were always at her house. She is very logical. For Thanksgiving, she would establish a full family year and an off family year. On the off family year, her married children would visit their in-laws and she would simply host something smaller for whomever was leftover. For Christmas, she would host Christmas Eve and Christmas Day never pushing for anyone to attend both or complaining if one year one household was going to their in laws. As she has gotten older, she has transferred some of the Thanksgiving, Easter and other holidays to some of her great grand children.

In constrast, her younger child who is DH's aunt is desperately, drooling to become the matriarch now that Grandma is getting older. This aunt does not live in a house large enough to host but she desperately wants to be the host. Over the years, some of her siblings - grandma's other children have tried to host and she always manipulated it back to grandma's house where she put herself in charge because grandma was old. She's tolerated having it hosted at some of the great grandchildren's houses but she has inserted herself to a ridiculous degree. She demands to coordinate and tell everyone including the host what to do, she make the biggest deal of how much work it was, she basically pretends that she is the host. She throws a fit whenever someone stands up to her. Her siblings have all just decided to ignore and avoid. They host for the other sides of their family. They attend occasionally but ignore her. The great grandkids that get excited about hosting never last more than two years with her horse shit. When grandmas dies, this side of the family will probably never get together because of the wanna be matriarch.

So to the OP's question, yes I do think that some people who are controlling attention seekers desperately want to be a matriarch.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.

I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.

Culture and values? Such as what?

Family culture: Parenting practices, breastfeeding, childcare, egalitarian parenting or traditional gender roles, parenting girls vs. boys and how that is done, views re: screen time, how to spend holidays (formal, informal, when to open gifts, what kind of gifts are given), food, music, religion. The list goes on.

Values: Private school, public school, religious education and practice, various areas of ethics, political views.

Why would a MIL feel she had any say in any of this? Literally none of this is anyone's business but mom and dad. Breastfeeding; are you kidding?

My MIL didn't have any say about me breastfeeding, but she had an opinion for sure. No one in DH's family had done so and my ILs thought it was strange. More than once, FIL asked me when I was going to "stop doing that."

I've been married for 24 years and MIL still tells me to use paper plates when we have them over for a meal. I've never in my life used paper plates and don't intend to - I like entertaining with nice china. MIL is much more bare-boned about these things and their way of doing holidays when DH was going up was much less formal than my family's was.

The ILs also don't understand our choices to forgo TV before our kids were about eight; sending our kids to private liberal arts colleges; me raising our kids as Christian (ILs are Jewish); me working FT (I make much more money than DH does); me not putting egg in potato salad, LOL; spending $$$ on music lessons. The list goes on.

The family that DH and I have created skews much more to my family of origin's way of doing things than it does to DH's family. Why? Because as the mother, I set the tone for our family. Are there other families who are more influenced by the dad's family of origin? Probably, but I imagine they are in a minority.

The battle for the matriarchy.

It's not a "battle" if you just say no, or shrug, or smile blandly and say "hmm" and keep doing what you want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a matriarch mindset exists whether or not it is articulated as such.

I believe that most conflicts between MILs and DILs are actually battles for matriarchal control of the family culture and values.

Culture and values? Such as what?

Family culture: Parenting practices, breastfeeding, childcare, egalitarian parenting or traditional gender roles, parenting girls vs. boys and how that is done, views re: screen time, how to spend holidays (formal, informal, when to open gifts, what kind of gifts are given), food, music, religion. The list goes on.

Values: Private school, public school, religious education and practice, various areas of ethics, political views.

Why would a MIL feel she had any say in any of this? Literally none of this is anyone's business but mom and dad. Breastfeeding; are you kidding?

My MIL didn't have any say about me breastfeeding, but she had an opinion for sure. No one in DH's family had done so and my ILs thought it was strange. More than once, FIL asked me when I was going to "stop doing that."

I've been married for 24 years and MIL still tells me to use paper plates when we have them over for a meal. I've never in my life used paper plates and don't intend to - I like entertaining with nice china. MIL is much more bare-boned about these things and their way of doing holidays when DH was going up was much less formal than my family's was.

The ILs also don't understand our choices to forgo TV before our kids were about eight; sending our kids to private liberal arts colleges; me raising our kids as Christian (ILs are Jewish); me working FT (I make much more money than DH does); me not putting egg in potato salad, LOL; spending $$$ on music lessons. The list goes on.

The family that DH and I have created skews much more to my family of origin's way of doing things than it does to DH's family. Why? Because as the mother, I set the tone for our family. Are there other families who are more influenced by the dad's family of origin? Probably, but I imagine they are in a minority.

The battle for the matriarchy.

It's probably both a cultural and generational concept. Not every family would have had a matriarch, but some families clearly had a strong female figure who had a near-undisputed role in family affairs and influence and respect.

There are still stories/reminiscences of my parents' grandmothers who were very much proper and correct women of a certain generation. They were "ladies" at a time when being a lady really meant something, and would have been called matrons rather than a matriarch. I remember one time having lunch with an aged great-aunt and a chirpy young assistance at her retirement community cheerfully asked her what her mother did when she was young, and my great aunt turned to her, gave her an incredulous stare, and said, "Mother was a lady. She didn't work."

I'm not sure if it's quite the same thing as matriarch but they did have strong cultural roles within their family spheres.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My gosh, I have such positive feelings about family matriarchs. I guess it’s cultural. I’m mixed AA. For my extended family to have elder women as a resource speaks volumes about resilience and strong bonds of kinship. My grandmother never had a lot of money, but she had wisdom, endless love, the ability to conjure amazing meals out of scraps, patience, and just an all-around healing presence. She was a leader in our community. Of course, we all gathered in her home for holidays and other meaningful events. When she passed away, no one else immediately emerged to lead the family and we all drifted away. The next two decades saw some bad times. My mom isn’t cut out temperamentally to handle being matriarch and her sister is too ill. My cousins and I would love to give our kids that same experience, but I think it’s too late.

Just last month, I witnessed over 200 people travel from 20 states and three nations to honor a distant relative by marriage turning 75. Standing on DH’s family land that her own grandfather defended from the KKK and looking out at teachers, lawyers, engineers, doctors, bankers, authors, government officials, and law enforcement officers in the family she led filled me with awe.

So there are no men in your family of your mother’s generation? Why can’t any of them host, invite, cook, foster family relationships?

Only one uncle left alive and he is senile. Next oldest male relative is a cousin of mine who is 60 and his third wife is not interested in socializing with his family of origin. They see her family on holidays.

I just don’t see parents wielding that kind of authority over their one or two children unless there is a family fortune involved.