Anonymous
08/20/2019 19:11
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
I take OP’s point that tying things to race or culture is not necessary. A school can say that they are taking steps to help children avoid stress without indicting Asian-American families in the same statement. The phrase “tiger mom” is so loaded and easily avoided.
I can also understand that a school does see shifting norms, for whatever reasons, and find challenges in responding to those. But schools used to deal with different challenges like seniors having legal access to beer and students taking smoke breaks. Then came cultural shifts like elite athletes coming in fatigued from early morning practice or travel teams. There will always be things happening in the world outside of school that schools need to respond to. I wish administrators had greater emotional intelligence and knew what was out of their control.
In much the same way that varsity sports aren’t for everyone, the spelling or geography bees won’t be appropriate for everyone either. Perhaps the solution isn’t trying to exert more control over others but to create more opportunities for fun competition, akin to JV and club sports. It stinks that we guard these opportunities as if they’re limited resources instead of expanding the opportunities (unless perhaps the point is to sneer at and detract from those we fear may be more talented than ourselves).
I can also understand that a school does see shifting norms, for whatever reasons, and find challenges in responding to those. But schools used to deal with different challenges like seniors having legal access to beer and students taking smoke breaks. Then came cultural shifts like elite athletes coming in fatigued from early morning practice or travel teams. There will always be things happening in the world outside of school that schools need to respond to. I wish administrators had greater emotional intelligence and knew what was out of their control.
In much the same way that varsity sports aren’t for everyone, the spelling or geography bees won’t be appropriate for everyone either. Perhaps the solution isn’t trying to exert more control over others but to create more opportunities for fun competition, akin to JV and club sports. It stinks that we guard these opportunities as if they’re limited resources instead of expanding the opportunities (unless perhaps the point is to sneer at and detract from those we fear may be more talented than ourselves).
Anonymous
08/20/2019 13:09
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess my question is what should I do about it? I'm as white as you can get and not Asian American.. It just bugs me when the statements are clearly aimed at criticizing or blaming Asian American kids. Quite frankly I know many white European and black African families who are just as intense and focused on academics over sports so its not accurate to lay all the blame for pressure on kids at the feet of Asian Americans. I also know that many kids get stressed over not getting good grades because they loose privileges like video game or TV time when they don't bring home As. I honestly do not think this is a bad thing. People are naturally driven by reward and consequences.
If a teacher, admin or parent was making racist comments about how an AA kid must have only gotten into whichever school or program due to affirmative action I would 100% call them on that statement. Most people know not to disparage AA or latino students out loud though many may hold prejudices against them. For the Asian Americans though it seems 100% acceptable to disparage them openly and freely. No one seems to speak up or out about it.
I'm not sure what to say though. Do you come out and say stop that is a racist remark and while I am not a member of the race you are targeting I am still offended .Do you say Hey I'm a white chick and I totally agree with the groups that you appear to be bashing?
Have you always wanted to police others? Because that absolutely is a white privilege mentality.
Anonymous
08/20/2019 13:04
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:I think you're missing a bigger movement. The pendulum swings back and forth in a very wide arc in education. The developments you see - mindfulness, less stress, less focus on test scores, etc. - are a societal response to the extreme focus on test scores during the earlier part of this century. Trends in education go as extreme as they can before they start to swing back towards the opposite extreme. I think this just happens to be coinciding with a changing demographic (and likely some push back) in the OP's community.
This is exactly right. I personally think OP insulting to Asian families.
Anonymous
08/20/2019 12:40
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
I think you're missing a bigger movement. The pendulum swings back and forth in a very wide arc in education. The developments you see - mindfulness, less stress, less focus on test scores, etc. - are a societal response to the extreme focus on test scores during the earlier part of this century. Trends in education go as extreme as they can before they start to swing back towards the opposite extreme. I think this just happens to be coinciding with a changing demographic (and likely some push back) in the OP's community.
Anonymous
08/20/2019 12:01
Subject: White privilege and asian-bashing
Sucking the life out of fun stuff at school for one person is another person's delightful challenge. People are all different. I enjoy rec league sports, but competitive sports and tournaments stress me out and suck the fun out of it. On the flip side, piano recitals and competitions motivated me to practice, and I enjoyed them. People are all different.
Rather than trying to decide whether it is appropriate or not for an activity to be competitive, instead help your children discover which competitive activities they enjoy. For the other things, stick with the rec league equivalent, which exists for almost everything.
Rather than trying to decide whether it is appropriate or not for an activity to be competitive, instead help your children discover which competitive activities they enjoy. For the other things, stick with the rec league equivalent, which exists for almost everything.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 22:14
Subject: White privilege and asian-bashing
They are right.
I am not in the dmv but it is common practice for certain families to move to areas with food schools en masse, and start building up academic pressure.
It’s not about their kids being ahead. It’s about sucking the life out of fun stuff at school.
I am not in the dmv but it is common practice for certain families to move to areas with food schools en masse, and start building up academic pressure.
It’s not about their kids being ahead. It’s about sucking the life out of fun stuff at school.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 21:55
Subject: White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
We're an Asian family living in Bethesda with kids from elementary to high school, and while I definitely see the mindfulness, low-competition, anti-comparison trend surging in neighboring elementary schools, it is not explicitly or even implicitly linked to Asian families. It's more because our area attracts wealthy, educated families from all ethnicities and nationalities, who have high educational standards and demand more challenge from the schools, and the schools and some progressive parents push back to protect young students' mental health.
In middle and high school, you can bet that all that stuff goes out of the window as college applications start looming in the most progressive parents' heads...
WTH?!? We’re in Bethesda too, WWHS specifically, but this post makes it seem like mental health is not something worth valuing. It’s BS that concern for mental health goes out the window as kids get older and it’s not just a “progressive” thing. Talk about stereotyping.
I'm the PP you replied to. Being hysterical and uninformed makes you look even worse.
I've seen all the (mostly white, mostly long-time American) parents who in elementary school decried the competition and pressure and lamented the fact that childhood was for play and not homework, rethink their positions in middle school, and become the most stressed-out, competitive parents in high school, as well as the biggest spenders on resume-boosting trips, tutoring, prep classes, etc in high school. Too bad they didn't see that coming in elementary. You can't magically un-waste years of doing nothing by dropping $400/hr on SAT prep...
As for mindfulness, I am on the PTA board of my kids' schools and have contributed to the burgeoning mindfulness practice in MCPS, and teacher training at the elementary level, which to me is very important. Is it important to the majority of parents? Is it even on their radar? Of course not. Bethesda-area public schools are actually leading in that respect, as they've led in other things. In the years to come, mindfulness will be better valued for children in a school setting, but there's still a lot of outreach to do.
My point is that of the tortoise and the hare. You can panic and stress yourself out at the end of the race, or you can prepare throughout.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 21:41
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess my question is what should I do about it? I'm as white as you can get and not Asian American.. It just bugs me when the statements are clearly aimed at criticizing or blaming Asian American kids. Quite frankly I know many white European and black African families who are just as intense and focused on academics over sports so its not accurate to lay all the blame for pressure on kids at the feet of Asian Americans. I also know that many kids get stressed over not getting good grades because they loose privileges like video game or TV time when they don't bring home As. I honestly do not think this is a bad thing. People are naturally driven by reward and consequences.
If a teacher, admin or parent was making racist comments about how an AA kid must have only gotten into whichever school or program due to affirmative action I would 100% call them on that statement. Most people know not to disparage AA or latino students out loud though many may hold prejudices against them. For the Asian Americans though it seems 100% acceptable to disparage them openly and freely. No one seems to speak up or out about it.
I'm not sure what to say though. Do you come out and say stop that is a racist remark and while I am not a member of the race you are targeting I am still offended .Do you say Hey I'm a white chick and I totally agree with the groups that you appear to be bashing?
Yes, you should call them out if you hear others making racist comments. The ones who witness racism but say or do nothing, allow racism to flourish through their inaction.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 21:04
Subject: White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:
We're an Asian family living in Bethesda with kids from elementary to high school, and while I definitely see the mindfulness, low-competition, anti-comparison trend surging in neighboring elementary schools, it is not explicitly or even implicitly linked to Asian families. It's more because our area attracts wealthy, educated families from all ethnicities and nationalities, who have high educational standards and demand more challenge from the schools, and the schools and some progressive parents push back to protect young students' mental health.
In middle and high school, you can bet that all that stuff goes out of the window as college applications start looming in the most progressive parents' heads...
WTH?!? We’re in Bethesda too, WWHS specifically, but this post makes it seem like mental health is not something worth valuing. It’s BS that concern for mental health goes out the window as kids get older and it’s not just a “progressive” thing. Talk about stereotyping.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 20:34
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess my question is what should I do about it? I'm as white as you can get and not Asian American.. It just bugs me when the statements are clearly aimed at criticizing or blaming Asian American kids. Quite frankly I know many white European and black African families who are just as intense and focused on academics over sports so its not accurate to lay all the blame for pressure on kids at the feet of Asian Americans. I also know that many kids get stressed over not getting good grades because they loose privileges like video game or TV time when they don't bring home As. I honestly do not think this is a bad thing. People are naturally driven by reward and consequences.
If a teacher, admin or parent was making racist comments about how an AA kid must have only gotten into whichever school or program due to affirmative action I would 100% call them on that statement. Most people know not to disparage AA or latino students out loud though many may hold prejudices against them. For the Asian Americans though it seems 100% acceptable to disparage them openly and freely. No one seems to speak up or out about it.
I'm not sure what to say though. Do you come out and say stop that is a racist remark and while I am not a member of the race you are targeting I am still offended .Do you say Hey I'm a white chick and I totally agree with the groups that you appear to be bashing?
You don’t know any AA and Latino families that share these values? I think you have some work of your own to do.
OP might want to get outside of her own bubble.
You're telling OP to find more Tiger Moms? I suppose that might work.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 20:32
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yeah,well,you know,this is how the white elites started reacting to Jewish success too.
Yup.
And incredibly many of those Jewish Americans now support racial discrimination vs. Asian Americans.
What de Blasio is doing in NY is truly shameful.
Huh? Wrong on both counts.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 20:30
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:Hmm. You are linking the de-stressing of school to a push-back against Asian families, but I’m not sure it’s the case.
Where I live there have been suicides in middle and high schools (due to stress), and the school district has responded by eliminating HW in elementary school, and reducing it in middle school.
I don’t believe it has anything to do with Asian students. Your post felt disingenuous to me.
OP here again. I'm linking them because the people making these statements are linking it. They will make statements like:
-Our community is changing. While we like the new diversity, we will not tolerate the intense pressure being placed on students to succeed. Please remember that they are only children once. Grades do not matter as much as you think they matter. Everyone does not need to go to the best possible school. Everyone shouldn't get As or top scores on the SAT.
It was adding the sentence about this being the changing community and the diversity comment that made everyone know who the principal was talking about in terms of pressure.
I have heard several math teachers complain that regular smart kids just can't keep up with kids that go to outside math tutoring two hours a day and then refer specifically to tiger moms. I have heard them complain and make comments about spelling bee winners like- of course you will win if you are forced to study hours a day, its not fair that the truly talented kids are being left behind.
I guess I find the framing of the first comment problematic, because it seems to reflect the view that some people - likely whites - get to frame what is happening in a community, along with what is likable and acceptable. Those are broader judgments that whites alone should not be making.
Having said that, if a community decides that it has observed more overt competition that it wants to discourage, or that it wants its younger students to "de-stress," that's a perfectly reasonably decision. If some parents find that it's dumbing down their public schools, they can send their kids to private schools they find more aligned with their educational aspirations.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 20:25
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess my question is what should I do about it? I'm as white as you can get and not Asian American.. It just bugs me when the statements are clearly aimed at criticizing or blaming Asian American kids. Quite frankly I know many white European and black African families who are just as intense and focused on academics over sports so its not accurate to lay all the blame for pressure on kids at the feet of Asian Americans. I also know that many kids get stressed over not getting good grades because they loose privileges like video game or TV time when they don't bring home As. I honestly do not think this is a bad thing. People are naturally driven by reward and consequences.
If a teacher, admin or parent was making racist comments about how an AA kid must have only gotten into whichever school or program due to affirmative action I would 100% call them on that statement. Most people know not to disparage AA or latino students out loud though many may hold prejudices against them. For the Asian Americans though it seems 100% acceptable to disparage them openly and freely. No one seems to speak up or out about it.
I'm not sure what to say though. Do you come out and say stop that is a racist remark and while I am not a member of the race you are targeting I am still offended .Do you say Hey I'm a white chick and I totally agree with the groups that you appear to be bashing?
You don’t know any AA and Latino families that share these values? I think you have some work of your own to do.
You're telling OP to find more Tiger Moms? I suppose that might work.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 20:20
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess my question is what should I do about it? I'm as white as you can get and not Asian American.. It just bugs me when the statements are clearly aimed at criticizing or blaming Asian American kids. Quite frankly I know many white European and black African families who are just as intense and focused on academics over sports so its not accurate to lay all the blame for pressure on kids at the feet of Asian Americans. I also know that many kids get stressed over not getting good grades because they loose privileges like video game or TV time when they don't bring home As. I honestly do not think this is a bad thing. People are naturally driven by reward and consequences.
If a teacher, admin or parent was making racist comments about how an AA kid must have only gotten into whichever school or program due to affirmative action I would 100% call them on that statement. Most people know not to disparage AA or latino students out loud though many may hold prejudices against them. For the Asian Americans though it seems 100% acceptable to disparage them openly and freely. No one seems to speak up or out about it.
I'm not sure what to say though. Do you come out and say stop that is a racist remark and while I am not a member of the race you are targeting I am still offended .Do you say Hey I'm a white chick and I totally agree with the groups that you appear to be bashing?
You don’t know any AA and Latino families that share these values? I think you have some work of your own to do.
Anonymous
08/19/2019 19:51
Subject: Re:White privilege and asian-bashing
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have heard several math teachers complain that regular smart kids just can't keep up with kids that go to outside math tutoring two hours a day and then refer specifically to tiger moms. I have heard them complain and make comments about spelling bee winners like- of course you will win if you are forced to study hours a day, its not fair that the truly talented kids are being left behind.
They're right. Kids shouldn't be doing that. Elementary school math never needs that.
Its a parent right to choose whatever they think is best for their kid. It is fine not to send your kid to math tutoring for 2 hours every night. You can't complain though when the kid going to 2 hours of math tutoring has better skills than your kid. Your kid does not deserve to be at the top or win the award if the kid sitting next to him has better skills.
We seem to be perfectly fine with this in athletics. No one complains when the star athlete practices two hours every day. In fact, we idolize him and shower him with praise for talent and hard work. Academics? No this seems to be the land of white privilege.
No. The point of elementary school math is to prepare for high school math, college math, and a job. Not to stress children or to win awards.
I'm not complaining about my children not winning awards. I'm complaining about the pressure, the inappropriate unnecessary pressure.
Who are you to say what the point is?!? You can choose the point for your own children, not those of others.
If my child wants to do competitive math, or robotics, or chess, or gymnastics, or violin, or spelling, who are you to tell them it's wrong?!?
Please accept that children have different inclinations, and that it's not inherently wrong to encourage them to work hard and be successful at something.
If you, as an outside observer, feels pressure from this, then you need to modify your attitude, not me.
If you say so. I agree with the elementary school math teachers. You disagree.
Take your kids to Kumon for years. They'll thank you for it when they grow up. Maybe not.
PP you replied to. I don’t take my kids to any academic enrichment outside of school (they do other intense and competitive things that take up a lot of their time) but I fully support the parents who do so!
And another PP has it right. Some parents are fine with competitive sports but any other focus is “too much”. Ridiculous.