With my 6-year-old, I feel there’s much less prep needed. Depending on the timing, I make sure there’s a snack for her but otherwise she does ok regulating herself and asking for what she needs. If we get into a situation where she needs to sit still or otherwise amuse herself, I can hand her my phone and she can play a quiet game.

My 4.5-year-old still needs lots of attention. Potty, snacks, water, short activities, home before bedtime, etc. It’s just an age thing and part of parenting.

When my kids were in 3rd grade, I could consistently squeeze in one activity or stop after school 2-3 days a week and expect reasonable behavior. If I had to go to two stores, they’d be exhausted and whiny. If I made them run my errands every day after school, they’d complain.

What do you like to do when you finish work? Do you want to go run errands with your mom or MIL? That sounds hellish to me. School is work for kids. Add in sports/aftercare/after school enrichment and that’s a really long day. They seem like little balls of endless energy, but they do need breaks and to refuel.

My sister came to visit and wanted to see a few different churches. I had my teenagers meet us for a late lunch after the church tours because I knew they’d be bored and miserable. They wouldn’t have meltdowns, but they also wouldn’t do well at faking happiness, enthusiasm, or even mild interest for hours, so I didn’t set them up for failure. At first my sister was irritated to miss visiting with them for a few hours, but then she realized how much more pleasant it is when you don’t force others into uncomfortable situations and expect them to be happy.

Mother of teens here. I found having a "tough" kid from birth to 7 steeled me in such a way that the teen years have not phased me one bit. I was humbled early on; I did not have the opportunity to gloat or to rest on my laurels. My kids made me work very hard.

If I had a dollar for every conversation with a gloating parent who said how much better behaved their child was than mine I would have a small fortune.

But you know what? Kids change. My kids are doing me proud. They have made the teen years EASY so far. I'd much rather have a hellion 2-year-old than a hellion 15-year-old any day! The worm does turn.

I guess I don’t really get this. Unless it’s something truly unforeseeable, set your kid up for success. And yourself. If I know I might be hungry while out, I bring snacks. If I’m going to be waiting, I bring a book. I still do this for myself. Why would I stop doing it for my 6 or 7 year old?

I think a lot of this is the expectations you set for your kids. I don’t fully prep when we leave the house with snacks and entertainment for them and never have because that’s just not my personality.

I engage with them and we make up games if things go awry and we are out longer than expected. They are 2 and 4 and very flexible about plans and know what’s expected of them in restaurants and museums. Not to say they’re perfect all the time but we use natural consequences if they aren’t behaving and keep moving on.

OP what you're asking sounds like something I would expect of a 6 or 7 yo. Before that, you do have to manage the entire process to set both of you up for success. But even a 7 yo will get irritable after some of the activities you've described. They may not have a throw down tantrum, but the whining will be incessant (understandably, in my opinion).

Settle in for the long haul.

Mine is good 90% of the time at nearly 3.5.
Grocery store, restaurants, library, show etc.
We worked at it by having immediate consequence of removal if she was not behaving up to now. And I will do that now too.
But my grocery store trip is not a meandering 45 min trip, it's 20 min tops to a place she likes and knows people. Restaurants are mostly ones she's been to but some new ones and we sit well before she will get hungry to account for the wait.
We don't go to places like target with her (too much temptation).

I do pack a small bag (my purse or she takes her backpack) with play-doh, water, small snack (I eat it sometimes) and a small toy or a waterwow book. We don't use all that stuff most of the time but it happens. I don't give her my phone for entertainment in public places.
I'm also one of those preparers so I always have tissues, wipes, bandaids, hair ties, pens, headache meds, feminine products in my bag to share with companions or strangers. Adding more things is not a big deal.

Anonymous wrote:Op again- maybe the example I gave was too extreme. What about- say- a trip to a grocery store. Granted I’m not packing a sandwich on a trip to the grocery store, but I still feel like I need to “set my kid up for success” if I’m doing any serious grocery shopping. So, for example I wouldn’t take him after daycare pickup. I’d wait until a nice weekend morning, after breakfast, and it would be the only activity (so we wouldn’t go, like, after his karate class).

When can you be a more more spontaneous and less planned about something like a trip to the store or the mall or waiting at a doctor’s office or planning to eat at a restaurant? We do all of these things with relative success, but in the back of my mind I’m always praying my child will behave and in the front of my mind I’m always thinking about what he needs in order to keep him on track.

I'm the PP who sets my kids up for success. I think it depends on your particular kid. I have one who will get loud "I don't WANT TO BE HERE! I'm HUNGRY! Can we GO already?" and one who will lay down on the floor silently in protest. You have to learn what your particular kid's triggers are and work around those. My loud one can be counted on to behave if I tell her EXACTLY what we're going into a store for. "We're going to look for queen sheets that say the number 500 or higher." And then she will work harder than Benson and Stabler combined to find that for me. I can tell her in the grocery store "In this aisle we need two jars of spaghetti sauce and the shells," and she likes that much better than aimlessly following me around while I find stuff.

I think there are two kind of general ways to answer this question. If the question is...

1) When can I expect a kid to be able to suck it up in the event of an unexpected set back that makes the afternoon or day difficult?

Than for me this is 3 years old IMO. We had a day last summer where we were flying with then almost 3 yr old DD and 1 yr old DS and had a series of flight delays that resulted in A LOT of sitting around in airports or on airplanes just waiting for things to unfold. While her parents got progressively more stressed and emotional themselves as it was a truly spectacular fail of a day.

I think age 2/3, if you treat the kid like a person who can understand what is going on around them, a 2/3 year old can take in the fact that whatever is going on around them is not good and the adults are trying their best to get the ship back on course and try to suck it up a bit. They might have the occasional meltdown, but if you're open with them about what is happening and why and how you're trying to fix it they can keep it together for a long time.

My daughter is pretty good at this now at almost 4. I can be really up front with her about what is going on and ask her to like, keep quiet and behave and work with me and she will try hard to do that, even if she occasionally has a bad moment. She also knows to tell me if she's hungry or has to go to the bathroom or something so we can keep those basic needs met and keep her as steady as we can.

2) When can I just leave the house without packing a goody bag?

I feel like the answer here is, when you feel comfortable with the idea that you might have to buy something on the go. If I am out and about and hungry and losing my patience I will dip into a starbucks or something for a snack for myself. Packing the sandwich and strawberries is just the preventative version of that. If I was going to the grocery store after work I'd probably eat a couple grapes out of the bag as I strolled myself.

I think the other element is just doing this with your kid a lot. My kids have gone to the grocery store so generally are comfortable there and don't act badly. They have all gone on errand days and roll with it and I just make sure we go to the bathroom and get food as needed, same as I would do for myself. My son will still start to cry if he gets too hungry or tired, but I imagine another year or so of dragging him around and he'll be used to the deal.


What you're talking about is a continuum. Kids learn how to get through a day while occasionally kind of muscling through or while setting themselves up for a not miserable day. By 12 they should all be able to do this, at 2 probably a very few will be able to do this. You're teaching your kid how to interact with the world all the time. I find that the more I talk to my kid and explain to them what is going on as well as encourage them to use language to talk about what is bothering them the better they get. Basically I treat them like little grown ups who I would be open with if I were on an adventure with. Sometimes we have meltdowns but less and less. Because they are getting more experienced with doing stuff like that and they get more able to express themselves.

I'd say about 6-7. But there are still limits. I mean, she's not going to have a full-blown meltdown in the grocery store, but she will have less emotional control if she's hungry, or tired, or in the early stages of getting sick. She's better at rolling with things because she can understand things like "I know you're hungry, and we will eat in a half an hour," or "I know you don't want to go to the store, but we need ingredients for dinner, so please behave." But she's still a little kid,. My mother always says that you can't expect kids or dogs to behave unless they are fed, rested, and exercised.

Adults might not have kicking, screaming meltdowns, but I know plenty who get teary or oversensitive or angry or bitchy if they are too hungry or tired. I sometimes think we expect more of kids than we expect of adults, like kids are never supposed to be cranky or unhappy, even though they have so much less control over things than adults do. A hungry adult can independently obtain a snack; a little kid depends on adults to do so.

Mine is 4.5 and we do the same type of preparation as you. We pack a lunchbox for her, snacks/treats, and a bag with activities and the tablet if things go south, and we use nearly everything. Even so, I don't think we could make it through a museum + traffic and church tours without an outburst. So my guess is it will be at least another couple years before she can handle a long day in public places without extensive planning/help from us.

I still greatly prefer this to a diaper bag, bottles, and screaming baby that I have to hide in a closet or restroom stall and nurse.

3 or 4.

Op again- maybe the example I gave was too extreme. What about- say- a trip to a grocery store. Granted I’m not packing a sandwich on a trip to the grocery store, but I still feel like I need to “set my kid up for success” if I’m doing any serious grocery shopping. So, for example I wouldn’t take him after daycare pickup. I’d wait until a nice weekend morning, after breakfast, and it would be the only activity (so we wouldn’t go, like, after his karate class).

When can you be a more more spontaneous and less planned about something like a trip to the store or the mall or waiting at a doctor’s office or planning to eat at a restaurant? We do all of these things with relative success, but in the back of my mind I’m always praying my child will behave and in the front of my mind I’m always thinking about what he needs in order to keep him on track.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At what age should you have an expectation that your child CAN AND WILL behave in, say, a store, restaurant,going to bed, etc. I’m not looking for “my 2.5 yo could sit in church quietly” kind of answers please- interested in real answers for when you think it’s developmentally appropriate for children to be able to control themselves and have self regulation during a non- preferred activity.

You sound very detached from your child.
How old is your child now?

He’s 4.5. Today we had planned to see some dinosaurs at a museum and then have lunch, and then head briefly to a church my brother wanted to see. Well, the museum part was easy. But the museum cafe was closed and only the coffee shop was open. And then, the 1 church tour turned into a two church tour, and then my SIL wanted to go to a polish deli across town, and we were in traffic for 40 minutes. Luckily, I was armed with: a sandwich, a water bottle, strawberries, two small oranges, and some misc toys in my purse. I ended up using all of these items. At what age do you feel you can just walk out the door and your child will go with the flow if the plan changes?

If this had happened to me, I would have needed all those items. Being an adult, I could just say at some point Thanks, I'm done, see you next time.

This is a LOT to expect of a 4 year old, even with support.

I don't think its reasonable to expect a 4 year old to behave in any circumstance.

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not sure what OP is expecting. Adults get tired, cranky, hangry. So do kids.

Oh come in. Assuming you’re in a public place or at work etc. you’re not going to have a screaming meltdown or start crying because you’re hungry or tired. I expect that what she’s asking. I would say around 5 depending on the kid.