Anonymous wrote:They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?

+1. No reasonably well informed person would be considering both.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been on DCUM too long. I thought this was a baby name thread, and thought, Oh God, please don't use either.

I might have had a similar thought if the thread was titled "Colby or Duke".

🤢

Anonymous wrote:I've been on DCUM too long. I thought this was a baby name thread, and thought, Oh God, please don't use either.

I might have had a similar thought if the thread was titled "Colby or Duke".

Anonymous wrote:Which would you choose? No FA and major undecided. Thank you!

As has been noted by several posters, these are schools with very different campus cultures.

Is your student more preppy or more crunchy, granola save the world type ?

Would you student be more likely to enter the world of business or ????

Are you willing to share the list of schools to which your student applied--regardless of result ?

Why did your son or daughter apply to these particular schools ?

If I recommend one over the other, it just tells you more about me and has no relevance to which is the better option for your student.

Essentially, you have not provided enough information for posters to make a reasonable recommendation for your young adult.

Colgate is a bit more highly rated by USNWR and others (eg WSJ), and by its alums.

Colgate has just under 3000 undergrads. Bates has fewer than 1800. That's actually a fairly significant difference. E.g., Colgate offers 56 majors, Bates offers 36; Colgate has over 350 academic staff; Bates has less than 200. Colgate's endowment is almost three times as large as Bates'.

Colgate is in a charming small town in the middle of pretty but isolated countryside. Bates is in a small industrial (or post-industrial) city that's the second largest in Maine. From each you can get to a larger city in just under an hour's drive, although Portland ME beats Syracuse NY hands down (although their population is about the same).

Colgate has, like many rural schools, a lively greek scene (five frats, three sororities, students join sophomore year - just under half of Soph, Jr and Sr students belong). Bates has none. Here on DCUM we're all supposed to say "ew, gross" about fraternities, but some students enjoy them. At any rate, more than half of Colgate's student body doesn't belong.

Colgate in particular seems to trigger some weird negative stereotyping among some DCUM commenters (as if Colgate is along among colleges in having students who like to party and plan for successful careers...). Obviously the school wouldn't have the strong reputation it does if it were as unpleasant as some anonymous DCUMers make it out to be. There's probably some truth to the notion that relative to other comparable schools, the Colgate student body has a visible quantity of pre-finance, jock-ey, frat bros, but that hardly speaks for all 3000 students (55% of whom are female btw). And at any rate, whose to say that's not a better college experience for some than a campus dominated by sedentary social justice warriors racking up student debt getting comp lit degrees with no career prospects?. If you wanted to flip that on its side, you could say that Colgate is prominent enough to warrant silly stereotyping on DCUM whereas Bates really doesn't have a high enough profile to warrant stereotyping outside Maine (where its reputation is that it's for crunchy, progressive, weed-smoking, well-off kids).

At any rate, the schools are pretty different, so setting stereotyping aside, the objective data should give your kid a good feel for which would be a better fit. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Recently read two newspaper articles about racism at Bates College. Very disturbing allegations. One involved the dismissal of the longtime head of security at Bates College, while the other shares details of a racial discrimination lawsuit filed by the head football coach at Bates College.

Agree that Bates College and Colgate University offer contrasting environments. I doubt that a student well suited for one would be comfortable at the other as Colgate is quite preppy and fratty with lots of students targeting Wall Street finance type positions, whereas Bates offers a crunchy, granola option for those interested in environmental issues as well as the study of psychology. (And, yes, I am aware that Colgate offers psychology & environmental studies options.)

Interesting and surprising - do you recall where you read these?

New poster:

Football coach: https://www.sunjournal.com/2022/04/09/bates-college-accused-of-racial-discrimination-by-its-former-football-coach/

Security officer: https://www.sunjournal.com/2021/04/28/bates-college-fires-a-top-campus-safety-officer/

So you are telling us that there's racism at colleges? Wow, who knew? Seriously, this is happening everywhere. Amherst tried to fix their racism problems with a new Black lacrosse coach. Now he's suing them, too. https://www.gazettenet.com/Federal-lawsuit-accuses-Amherst-College-of-racial-discrimination-42008815 Many incidents involving student athletes as well. https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2016/12/12/amherst-college-cross-country/

As a side note to the football coach story, Bates football is a drain on the school and needs to just be cut. They have been horrible for a long time but pressure from alum keeps the team going. What a waste of resources and a source of problems for too long. The allegations are serious and that will play out with lawyers. Being a Black person in the whitest state in the US isn't going to be easy no matter how liberal the college is. All of these schools (many of which my family has attended) talk a good game but racism in baked into our institutions. And clashes between students and campus security have been going on for decades. It was a problem when I was a student at my SLAC and the same problems continue to this day. But from what I know from my kid these security officers were on a power trip during Covid - just looking for ways to get them in trouble. Playing jenga in a dorm common space? Right, that's exactly what we should all have been worried about during Covid.

All of these articles about racial discrimination at Amherst and at Bates College are disturbing. Tough to imagine having to deal with this type of environment in a small community. Sad.

Anonymous wrote:They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?

Agree.

They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?

Anonymous wrote:Bates. Less likely to encounter toxic masculinity.

Is neither an option? Bates has a 188k per student endowment and is only the 3rd best liberal arts school in Maine; it will remain a respectable school, to be sure, but will take a hit in 5-10 years due to demographic shifts. And Colgate is, well, Colgate.

Colgate has struggled for years with the image of toxic masculinity and a bro culture, and sexual assault allegations.

Regarding the security officer story, of course he reacted wrongly by using force against a student. But, read between the lines here. The students were violating covid rules, drinking in a dorm, and being entitled jerks to the security guard. There’s blame on both and it shows an ugly entitled side to the student body (yes I realize this was a few kids. but I attended another similar slac and well remember how the students treated campus security - like trash (“we pay your salaries” blah blah entitled blah).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Recently read two newspaper articles about racism at Bates College. Very disturbing allegations. One involved the dismissal of the longtime head of security at Bates College, while the other shares details of a racial discrimination lawsuit filed by the head football coach at Bates College.

Agree that Bates College and Colgate University offer contrasting environments. I doubt that a student well suited for one would be comfortable at the other as Colgate is quite preppy and fratty with lots of students targeting Wall Street finance type positions, whereas Bates offers a crunchy, granola option for those interested in environmental issues as well as the study of psychology. (And, yes, I am aware that Colgate offers psychology & environmental studies options.)

Interesting and surprising - do you recall where you read these?

New poster:

Football coach: https://www.sunjournal.com/2022/04/09/bates-college-accused-of-racial-discrimination-by-its-former-football-coach/

Security officer: https://www.sunjournal.com/2021/04/28/bates-college-fires-a-top-campus-safety-officer/

So you are telling us that there's racism at colleges? Wow, who knew? Seriously, this is happening everywhere. Amherst tried to fix their racism problems with a new Black lacrosse coach. Now he's suing them, too. https://www.gazettenet.com/Federal-lawsuit-accuses-Amherst-College-of-racial-discrimination-42008815 Many incidents involving student athletes as well. https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2016/12/12/amherst-college-cross-country/

As a side note to the football coach story, Bates football is a drain on the school and needs to just be cut. They have been horrible for a long time but pressure from alum keeps the team going. What a waste of resources and a source of problems for too long. The allegations are serious and that will play out with lawyers. Being a Black person in the whitest state in the US isn't going to be easy no matter how liberal the college is. All of these schools (many of which my family has attended) talk a good game but racism in baked into our institutions. And clashes between students and campus security have been going on for decades. It was a problem when I was a student at my SLAC and the same problems continue to this day. But from what I know from my kid these security officers were on a power trip during Covid - just looking for ways to get them in trouble. Playing jenga in a dorm common space? Right, that's exactly what we should all have been worried about during Covid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Recently read two newspaper articles about racism at Bates College. Very disturbing allegations. One involved the dismissal of the longtime head of security at Bates College, while the other shares details of a racial discrimination lawsuit filed by the head football coach at Bates College.

Agree that Bates College and Colgate University offer contrasting environments. I doubt that a student well suited for one would be comfortable at the other as Colgate is quite preppy and fratty with lots of students targeting Wall Street finance type positions, whereas Bates offers a crunchy, granola option for those interested in environmental issues as well as the study of psychology. (And, yes, I am aware that Colgate offers psychology & environmental studies options.)

Interesting and surprising - do you recall where you read these?

New poster:

Football coach: https://www.sunjournal.com/2022/04/09/bates-college-accused-of-racial-discrimination-by-its-former-football-coach/

Security officer: https://www.sunjournal.com/2021/04/28/bates-college-fires-a-top-campus-safety-officer/

Anonymous wrote:Recently read two newspaper articles about racism at Bates College. Very disturbing allegations. One involved the dismissal of the longtime head of security at Bates College, while the other shares details of a racial discrimination lawsuit filed by the head football coach at Bates College.

Agree that Bates College and Colgate University offer contrasting environments. I doubt that a student well suited for one would be comfortable at the other as Colgate is quite preppy and fratty with lots of students targeting Wall Street finance type positions, whereas Bates offers a crunchy, granola option for those interested in environmental issues as well as the study of psychology. (And, yes, I am aware that Colgate offers psychology & environmental studies options.)

Interesting and surprising - do you recall where you read these?

Anonymous wrote:Bates. Less likely to encounter toxic masculinity.

Colgate, more likely to encounter masculine guys