Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the pp. I also want to mention that in my current school, in a classroom of 15 kids, 80% EL's, 65% below the poverty level, 25% refugees, that 80% of my students left reading on grade level. Only 40% came in with the skills they should have had at the start of they year and my other two grade level colleagues had 25% of their students (same demographics) on grade level by end of year.

great job

wouldn't more pay increase the caliber of teachers choosing the profession so they would get results like yours instead of your coworkers?

I don't think there's a causation between higher results and more pay. I could be wrong of course. I think a lot of people believe that most teachers are of average or slightly below average intelligence who only chose teaching because they had no other options. (I have never found this to be the case in any of the schools I've taught in and think this is just a caricature stereotype.) I also think a lot of people believe if we could pay teachers more they'd a) work longer and harder and or b) we'd attract folks with higher intelligence. Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd be so interested to read some studies comparing the results of students from similar demographics with teachers who had higher ACT scores, higher GPAs and who took harder coursework. I do believe in letting go of teachers who are underperformers, but not without significant support first and it is how you define under performers that can be problematic. I do think my suggestions about smaller class sizes, more RTI help, more psychs and social workers, etc, and more reading specialists would go a long way towards success in high poverty schools.
I'm not totally clear on why I regularly get higher scores than my colleagues. I do know that I look at test scores frequently, target my instruction in really specific ways and double up on reading group time for my lower performers. Unfortunately, my lower performers need for more time with me in small groups means that my high performers get the bare minimum on small group help. I have yet to find a way to ensure my kids who have the potential to perform well above grade level to do so while ensuring everyone else gets to grade level. High poverty schools, in my experience, are like triage.

Exactly.


-a Baltimore City schools teacher

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more and more people are waking up to the fact that all the schools around here are being overrun by underperformers which takes away time and resources from everyone else

The above average performers are either clustering in the remaining "decent school pyramids" aka the wealthier ones supplementing and desperately holding on or going private

The average performers are really hurting and I think people are waking up and saying enough is enough you need to focus on my children

As a liberal, I hate agreeing with your post.

+1

A Canadian immigration system fixes the issue

Then why are Canadian school systems struggling with the same issues with non-native speakers? There are actually quite a lot of English Language Learners in FCPS whose families are professionals and get in on H1-B visas and the like. A child who is a non-native speaker adjusting to a new country is still going to need more educational resources initially. And many of the identified children with special education needs come from upper middle class US citizens and yet they still need a lot of resources. Public schools are just expected to do far more than they every were before--and they are absorbing costs that were used elsewhere. For instance, pre-special education, there was greater need for public support life long institutional care for people with disabilities that are now better managed.

Anonymous wrote:Report and deport should be an objective

You want to deport kids with SN? Kids identified as GT? Those on FARMS?

Because there isn’t enough illegal immigration that your solution is going to bring back the “good old days” when school was designed around the needs of average, middle class kids and everyone else was neglected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more and more people are waking up to the fact that all the schools around here are being overrun by underperformers which takes away time and resources from everyone else

The above average performers are either clustering in the remaining "decent school pyramids" aka the wealthier ones supplementing and desperately holding on or going private

The average performers are really hurting and I think people are waking up and saying enough is enough you need to focus on my children

As a liberal, I hate agreeing with your post.

+1

A Canadian immigration system fixes the issue

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the pp. I also want to mention that in my current school, in a classroom of 15 kids, 80% EL's, 65% below the poverty level, 25% refugees, that 80% of my students left reading on grade level. Only 40% came in with the skills they should have had at the start of they year and my other two grade level colleagues had 25% of their students (same demographics) on grade level by end of year.

great job

wouldn't more pay increase the caliber of teachers choosing the profession so they would get results like yours instead of your coworkers?

I don't think there's a causation between higher results and more pay. I could be wrong of course. I think a lot of people believe that most teachers are of average or slightly below average intelligence who only chose teaching because they had no other options. (I have never found this to be the case in any of the schools I've taught in and think this is just a caricature stereotype.) I also think a lot of people believe if we could pay teachers more they'd a) work longer and harder and or b) we'd attract folks with higher intelligence. Perhaps, perhaps not. I'd be so interested to read some studies comparing the results of students from similar demographics with teachers who had higher ACT scores, higher GPAs and who took harder coursework. I do believe in letting go of teachers who are underperformers, but not without significant support first and it is how you define under performers that can be problematic. I do think my suggestions about smaller class sizes, more RTI help, more psychs and social workers, etc, and more reading specialists would go a long way towards success in high poverty schools.
I'm not totally clear on why I regularly get higher scores than my colleagues. I do know that I look at test scores frequently, target my instruction in really specific ways and double up on reading group time for my lower performers. Unfortunately, my lower performers need for more time with me in small groups means that my high performers get the bare minimum on small group help. I have yet to find a way to ensure my kids who have the potential to perform well above grade level to do so while ensuring everyone else gets to grade level. High poverty schools, in my experience, are like triage.

The Board also discussed bussing when this proposal was voted on in January, and they said very clearly (multiple times because they had heard over and over that parents don't want bussing) that it was NOT about bussing. Some of you still haven't gotten that message.

I resent the implication that because there are problems in any of the schools (but my experience and knowledge is MCPS) that the sky is falling. There ARE problems in MCPS:
High mobility
Overcrowding
No autonomy for teachers
To many standardized/mandatory tests, the result of which have indications for teachers and schools, therefore to much time spent teaching to the test
No consequences - for misbehavior (and the kids know it)
Administration not addressing ED and other mental health issues (because they don't know how? Because they've been told not to by Central Office? Because parents are in denial and don't want their child "labeled" in any way? The answer is ALL of the above!)
To many new Principals looking out for their career because they have to (we all do), but it is NOT always in the best interest of all the children at the school
And I am certain many other areas that need great improvement....

I do feel I was sold a bill of goods, in that we moved to MC for the excellent schools for our children. However, I believe the school system was resting on itheir laurels and has been in a downward slide since Jerry Weist (Weast?) left.

Is the sky falling? No. Do I wish we had the money for private? Yes. Can I do anything about it now (kids are in 10th and 12th in the fall and one already in college)? No. Do I wish someone or something (Dr Smith/Board of Education) would do something to turn things back around? Hell Yes!

Arguing hyperbole isn’t really further the discussion is it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more and more people are waking up to the fact that all the schools around here are being overrun by underperformers which takes away time and resources from everyone else

The above average performers are either clustering in the remaining "decent school pyramids" aka the wealthier ones supplementing and desperately holding on or going private

The average performers are really hurting and I think people are waking up and saying enough is enough you need to focus on my children

As harsh as this is, I second it in MoCo. Special needs / problem kids are taking all of the attention. I hear more and more parents telling stories of teachers lauding their children for "not causing problems." I heard one say "I hardly even notice she's there" as a positive comment. As far as parents clustering in the remaining decent pyramids, I've seen this too, which is why there's all this uproar about busing. Parents have spent $1M+ for a pyramid, and now some County Council do-gooder is going to "close the achievement gap" using kids as pawns... that's the perception. Many parents long for the days of great teachers dominating schools--today it seems like schools are mostly admin + paraeducators + big curriculum companies. It's definitely a long slide to mediocrity.

Parents are willing to pay $1+ mil for the house in a W, but are not willing to pay teachers more. Compensation is what is needed to attract and retain top teachers who can meet the demands of special populations (ELLs, GT, FARMS, and SN). Until that happens, no progress.

They are paying the 1 million plus to get away from the more challenging populations it has nothing to do with the teachers

Teachers don't make or break the school system. It's all about the students. The average caliber of a student is going down across the region which is why the school systems are going down.

Special needs and ESL populations are exploding

MCPS BOE voted to favor diversity when reworking school boundaries so I expect they'll to start bussing this population into the W schools to end the segregation.

correct if we are talking 5% I don't think anything will happen if we are talking 10% plus you can expect to see an uptick in private school

Why does adding 5% more FARMs student cause the school to tank? Sure, the overall school test scores could go down, but your DC's outcome wouldn't change. Despite what you may think, being poor or not being able to speak English well is not contagious.

Fairfax County did a study several years ago that showed detriment to a school starting at around 15% FARMS rate. After 40% the school became a failure. Students with higher needs require more time money and energy which is detrimental to the kids who are ignored.

I'm treating this like an economist. I'm just stating facts.

OK, but going from 5 to 10% is not 15%, which is what the ^PP stated would cause people to move to private schools.

I don't disagree with the fact that a school with a too high FARMS rate requires more resources and energy, thus taking away from other students. But, I am not sure about your 15% figure, though I am not sure what that rate is either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more and more people are waking up to the fact that all the schools around here are being overrun by underperformers which takes away time and resources from everyone else

The above average performers are either clustering in the remaining "decent school pyramids" aka the wealthier ones supplementing and desperately holding on or going private

The average performers are really hurting and I think people are waking up and saying enough is enough you need to focus on my children

As a liberal, I hate agreeing with your post.

+1

Anonymous wrote:I think more and more people are waking up to the fact that all the schools around here are being overrun by underperformers which takes away time and resources from everyone else

The above average performers are either clustering in the remaining "decent school pyramids" aka the wealthier ones supplementing and desperately holding on or going private

The average performers are really hurting and I think people are waking up and saying enough is enough you need to focus on my children

As a liberal, I hate agreeing with your post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are challenges, but in the large scope of things these are excellent high performing school systems. There are nationwide educator shortages and these issues are being experienced everywhere.

Why are they excellent though? They are mostly filled with children of well educated and wealthy parents who do whatever they need to make sure their kids are successful. That doesn't mean the school system is great. Swap those students and families from students from Baltimore City and that's when you'll see how good they really are.

+1,000,000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more and more people are waking up to the fact that all the schools around here are being overrun by underperformers which takes away time and resources from everyone else

The above average performers are either clustering in the remaining "decent school pyramids" aka the wealthier ones supplementing and desperately holding on or going private

The average performers are really hurting and I think people are waking up and saying enough is enough you need to focus on my children

As harsh as this is, I second it in MoCo. Special needs / problem kids are taking all of the attention. I hear more and more parents telling stories of teachers lauding their children for "not causing problems." I heard one say "I hardly even notice she's there" as a positive comment. As far as parents clustering in the remaining decent pyramids, I've seen this too, which is why there's all this uproar about busing. Parents have spent $1M+ for a pyramid, and now some County Council do-gooder is going to "close the achievement gap" using kids as pawns... that's the perception. Many parents long for the days of great teachers dominating schools--today it seems like schools are mostly admin + paraeducators + big curriculum companies. It's definitely a long slide to mediocrity.

Parents are willing to pay $1+ mil for the house in a W, but are not willing to pay teachers more. Compensation is what is needed to attract and retain top teachers who can meet the demands of special populations (ELLs, GT, FARMS, and SN). Until that happens, no progress.

They are paying the 1 million plus to get away from the more challenging populations it has nothing to do with the teachers

Teachers don't make or break the school system. It's all about the students. The average caliber of a student is going down across the region which is why the school systems are going down.

Special needs and ESL populations are exploding

MCPS BOE voted to favor diversity when reworking school boundaries so I expect they'll to start bussing this population into the W schools to end the segregation.

You expect them to do this, or is this a real proposal? I don't follow MCPS close enough, so I'm not trying to be snarky.

Wrong. Please stop spreading lies. There are 4 factors that are evaluated when looking at boundary assignments. There is not one preference over the others.

Not true - they voted to make diversity the #1 criteria.

Can someone link that fairfax study. It’s brought up all the time.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the pp. I also want to mention that in my current school, in a classroom of 15 kids, 80% EL's, 65% below the poverty level, 25% refugees, that 80% of my students left reading on grade level. Only 40% came in with the skills they should have had at the start of they year and my other two grade level colleagues had 25% of their students (same demographics) on grade level by end of year.

great job

wouldn't more pay increase the caliber of teachers choosing the profession so they would get results like yours instead of your coworkers?

I'm the pp. I also want to mention that in my current school, in a classroom of 15 kids, 80% EL's, 65% below the poverty level, 25% refugees, that 80% of my students left reading on grade level. Only 40% came in with the skills they should have had at the start of they year and my other two grade level colleagues had 25% of their students (same demographics) on grade level by end of year.