A friend with a child on the Achilles team said that the ref was not calling the Bethesda team for blatant fouls, and kids were going down. As an earlier poster said, requests were made for a replacement ref, and the requests were denied. He said the final straw was when a Bethesda kid openly kicked an Achilles kid (who didn't have the ball) in the back of the leg/knee, and it wasn't called. That's when the coach called it and withdrew.

This parent is pretty low-key, including about soccer, and even he was fired up about the reffing.

I could have written the same thing. I know some teams are more physical than others and some that foul a lot. This one does not typically do this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Ref here. Not the ref at this game. I handled eight games this weekend over at another tournament.

I question the premise that “inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt”. At the 09 level, how does a game possibly get out of control? Most fouls are not on purpose.

I can see that a younger / inexperienced ref might have gotten in over their head. But who really caused the game to get out of control? Did the Bethesda coach tell / teach his team to foul? Did both coaches ask their kids to play unfairly? Did one call go the wrong way, and the coaches allowed things to spiral out of control from there?

I'm curious about this too and posted above with a similar question. My kid plays on a different Bethesda team in the same age group, and I can tell you that the Bethesda Blue team that ended up on the winning side of this forfeit is not an aggressive team and the coach is laid back. I can't figure out how the game could have gotten out of control to the point anyone was worried about injuries. And I'd be upset if my kid's coach forfeited a game just because the refs were terrible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Ref here. Not the ref at this game. I handled eight games this weekend over at another tournament.

I question the premise that “inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt”. At the 09 level, how does a game possibly get out of control? Most fouls are not on purpose.

I can see that a younger / inexperienced ref might have gotten in over their head. But who really caused the game to get out of control? Did the Bethesda coach tell / teach his team to foul? Did both coaches ask their kids to play unfairly? Did one call go the wrong way, and the coaches allowed things to spiral out of control from there?

Ref, wanted to get your take on this. Over the weekend, we have seen refs that did not call fouls that are clearly on purpose - we are talking about elbowing other players, pushing (both hands extended in pushing position) that caused players to go down, sticking their leg out that caused other players to go down. I believe those are clear fouls and were done on purpose. None of those were called. We are perplexed. What are some of the offenses that refs would call on for U9-U11 games?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Ref here. Not the ref at this game. I handled eight games this weekend over at another tournament.

I question the premise that “inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt”. At the 09 level, how does a game possibly get out of control? Most fouls are not on purpose.

I can see that a younger / inexperienced ref might have gotten in over their head. But who really caused the game to get out of control? Did the Bethesda coach tell / teach his team to foul? Did both coaches ask their kids to play unfairly? Did one call go the wrong way, and the coaches allowed things to spiral out of control from there?

^^I think some of the posters may not realize that you cannot make a substitution for a player with a red card in any tournament that follow the FIFA rules of the game, as almost all tournaments do for all age groups. The Potomac rules explicitly state that they follow the FIFA rules. The refereeing may have been bad, but the majority of referees in a youth game are going to at least consider a straight red card for a cleats-up tackle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Thanks for the report. That's interesting. I can easily believe the reffing was bad, but I'm surprised there were injuries. What calls/missed calls were calling them? Were the Achilles parents and kids all ok with the decision given that Achilles almost certainly would have made the semi-final but for the forfeit?

I'm not sure about that, as Bethesda was winning at the time of the forfeit.
And as for Achilles, I watched them in the Bethesda Tournament and I watched most of this game, and it was night and day. Either this is a totally different team than the one that competed back then, or o something really weird happened, maybe lots of guest players at the Bethesda Tournament as someone previously suggested.
regardless, we had the next game with the same ref, and she was, literally, the worst ref I have ever seen. Didn't call a foul the whole game, and managed to get lots of goal kick/corner decisions obviously wrong, to the point where both coaches were laughing. Luckily, it wasn't a physical game, so we didn't have the issues the previous game did.

Achilles 09s were just sad, confused, and heartbroken after having to forfeit Saturday, and it got worse before their delayed Sunday game. They were the exact same team as the Bethesda tournament that beat Bethesda pre-academy I, and they’d beaten the Blue team twice by a lot this spring. Plus they were tied but dominating possession and chances when they had to forfeit. Those kids were ready and excited to play the top teams in their bracket and had their hopes dashed.

Also, they had a full bench before and after the red card, so looked like a tournament decision to play a kid down.

Can they do that? The rules say the player just sits out the next game. Maybe they got multiple red cards? In any case, that sounds terrible for them.

A player or coach (whether he/she is actually shown a card or not) who receives an ejection from a game or is shown a red card (straight red or 2 yellows in one game) is required to sit out of the next game in which his team actively participates (forfeited games do not qualify), without regard to the importance of the game to player, coach or team.


http://potomacmemorial.gotsport.com/clubsite/?p=19517

I think there's a little confusion here.
Achilles wasn't forced to play a man down all game.
It started 7 v 7, then they received a red card, and they were down a man for the rest of the game.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Thanks for the report. That's interesting. I can easily believe the reffing was bad, but I'm surprised there were injuries. What calls/missed calls were calling them? Were the Achilles parents and kids all ok with the decision given that Achilles almost certainly would have made the semi-final but for the forfeit?

I'm not sure about that, as Bethesda was winning at the time of the forfeit.
And as for Achilles, I watched them in the Bethesda Tournament and I watched most of this game, and it was night and day. Either this is a totally different team than the one that competed back then, or o something really weird happened, maybe lots of guest players at the Bethesda Tournament as someone previously suggested.
regardless, we had the next game with the same ref, and she was, literally, the worst ref I have ever seen. Didn't call a foul the whole game, and managed to get lots of goal kick/corner decisions obviously wrong, to the point where both coaches were laughing. Luckily, it wasn't a physical game, so we didn't have the issues the previous game did.

Achilles 09s were just sad, confused, and heartbroken after having to forfeit Saturday, and it got worse before their delayed Sunday game. They were the exact same team as the Bethesda tournament that beat Bethesda pre-academy I, and they’d beaten the Blue team twice by a lot this spring. Plus they were tied but dominating possession and chances when they had to forfeit. Those kids were ready and excited to play the top teams in their bracket and had their hopes dashed.

Also, they had a full bench before and after the red card, so looked like a tournament decision to play a kid down.

Can they do that? The rules say the player just sits out the next game. Maybe they got multiple red cards? In any case, that sounds terrible for them.

A player or coach (whether he/she is actually shown a card or not) who receives an ejection from a game or is shown a red card (straight red or 2 yellows in one game) is required to sit out of the next game in which his team actively participates (forfeited games do not qualify), without regard to the importance of the game to player, coach or team.


http://potomacmemorial.gotsport.com/clubsite/?p=19517

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Thanks for the report. That's interesting. I can easily believe the reffing was bad, but I'm surprised there were injuries. What calls/missed calls were calling them? Were the Achilles parents and kids all ok with the decision given that Achilles almost certainly would have made the semi-final but for the forfeit?

I'm not sure about that, as Bethesda was winning at the time of the forfeit.
And as for Achilles, I watched them in the Bethesda Tournament and I watched most of this game, and it was night and day. Either this is a totally different team than the one that competed back then, or o something really weird happened, maybe lots of guest players at the Bethesda Tournament as someone previously suggested.
regardless, we had the next game with the same ref, and she was, literally, the worst ref I have ever seen. Didn't call a foul the whole game, and managed to get lots of goal kick/corner decisions obviously wrong, to the point where both coaches were laughing. Luckily, it wasn't a physical game, so we didn't have the issues the previous game did.

Achilles 09s were just sad, confused, and heartbroken after having to forfeit Saturday, and it got worse before their delayed Sunday game. They were the exact same team as the Bethesda tournament that beat Bethesda pre-academy I, and they’d beaten the Blue team twice by a lot this spring. Plus they were tied but dominating possession and chances when they had to forfeit. Those kids were ready and excited to play the top teams in their bracket and had their hopes dashed.

Also, they had a full bench before and after the red card, so looked like a tournament decision to play a kid down.

Achilles 09 played Bethesda's Pre-Academy II (not I) team in the Bethesda tournament in the fall and won 4-1. I thought Achilles looked like a strong team and they moved the ball well, but they are not close to the level of Bethesda's Pre-Academy I team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Thanks for the report. That's interesting. I can easily believe the reffing was bad, but I'm surprised there were injuries. What calls/missed calls were calling them? Were the Achilles parents and kids all ok with the decision given that Achilles almost certainly would have made the semi-final but for the forfeit?

I'm not sure about that, as Bethesda was winning at the time of the forfeit.
And as for Achilles, I watched them in the Bethesda Tournament and I watched most of this game, and it was night and day. Either this is a totally different team than the one that competed back then, or o something really weird happened, maybe lots of guest players at the Bethesda Tournament as someone previously suggested.
regardless, we had the next game with the same ref, and she was, literally, the worst ref I have ever seen. Didn't call a foul the whole game, and managed to get lots of goal kick/corner decisions obviously wrong, to the point where both coaches were laughing. Luckily, it wasn't a physical game, so we didn't have the issues the previous game did.

Achilles 09s were just sad, confused, and heartbroken after having to forfeit Saturday, and it got worse before their delayed Sunday game. They were the exact same team as the Bethesda tournament that beat Bethesda pre-academy I, and they’d beaten the Blue team twice by a lot this spring. Plus they were tied but dominating possession and chances when they had to forfeit. Those kids were ready and excited to play the top teams in their bracket and had their hopes dashed.

They didn't beat Bethesda Pre-Academy 1 in the Bethesda Tournament, they beat Bethesda Pre-Academy 2.
Bethesda 1 won the top bracket in that tournament, Achilles won the second bracket.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Thanks for the report. That's interesting. I can easily believe the reffing was bad, but I'm surprised there were injuries. What calls/missed calls were calling them? Were the Achilles parents and kids all ok with the decision given that Achilles almost certainly would have made the semi-final but for the forfeit?

I'm not sure about that, as Bethesda was winning at the time of the forfeit.
And as for Achilles, I watched them in the Bethesda Tournament and I watched most of this game, and it was night and day. Either this is a totally different team than the one that competed back then, or o something really weird happened, maybe lots of guest players at the Bethesda Tournament as someone previously suggested.
regardless, we had the next game with the same ref, and she was, literally, the worst ref I have ever seen. Didn't call a foul the whole game, and managed to get lots of goal kick/corner decisions obviously wrong, to the point where both coaches were laughing. Luckily, it wasn't a physical game, so we didn't have the issues the previous game did.

Achilles 09s were just sad, confused, and heartbroken after having to forfeit Saturday, and it got worse before their delayed Sunday game. They were the exact same team as the Bethesda tournament that beat Bethesda pre-academy I, and they’d beaten the Blue team twice by a lot this spring. Plus they were tied but dominating possession and chances when they had to forfeit. Those kids were ready and excited to play the top teams in their bracket and had their hopes dashed.

Also, they had a full bench before and after the red card, so looked like a tournament decision to play a kid down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have the story about why Achilles forfeited their U9 game against Bethesda Blue at the Potomac tournament yesterday? I heard there was bad reffing and an outburst by the coach, but haven't gotten other details.

A forfeit over reffing in an 09 game??? Seriously?

It is ridiculous but it explains the losses yesterday and today. There is no way the team I saw would have lost to Bethesda blue or to Bethesda’s first team by 10-1. Weird.

Inadequate reffing led to kids getting hurt. Achilles coach (backed by some Bethesda parents) asked for a new ref. When tournament would not provide a new ref or any support and the game continued out of control, he pulled his team. Kids were literally getting hurt at 09. Coach made the right call. On Sunday the kids were told their games wouldn't count and they couldn't advance so they looked out of sorts- then their keeper got a red card and they played 6 v 7 most of the game. That's a lot to deal with at 9 or 10 years old.

Thanks for the report. That's interesting. I can easily believe the reffing was bad, but I'm surprised there were injuries. What calls/missed calls were calling them? Were the Achilles parents and kids all ok with the decision given that Achilles almost certainly would have made the semi-final but for the forfeit?

I'm not sure about that, as Bethesda was winning at the time of the forfeit.
And as for Achilles, I watched them in the Bethesda Tournament and I watched most of this game, and it was night and day. Either this is a totally different team than the one that competed back then, or o something really weird happened, maybe lots of guest players at the Bethesda Tournament as someone previously suggested.
regardless, we had the next game with the same ref, and she was, literally, the worst ref I have ever seen. Didn't call a foul the whole game, and managed to get lots of goal kick/corner decisions obviously wrong, to the point where both coaches were laughing. Luckily, it wasn't a physical game, so we didn't have the issues the previous game did.

Last year at Potomac I saw 2 reds in one u11 game (deserved - 2 kids almost went at it). They sat out the rest of the game, and then the ref spoke to them for a good 10 mins, had them apologize to each other and their teams, shake hands, etc. so he withdrew the red cards. Thought that was a good way to handle it at that age. At least last year, a red didn’t require you to play a man down but makes the player ineligible for that game and the next.

Anyway, a bunch of reds suggests inexperienced refs or something crazy happened. At younger ages, and the story about the u10 team, are really odd.

6 red cards! What were they for? I hope this was an older age group. Sounds like a very cranky ref.

Anonymous wrote:A red card results in the player sitting out in this tournament. Maybe they did not have subs?

Similar experience. I have 2 kids in different age groups/different Club and between the back to back games on our field (one our game and the one after)there were 6 red cards. There was one particularly red card happy ref and things that should have been a yellow/warning or not even warrant a card went straight to red. I’ve never seen anything like it in all the years I played and have been watching.

The red carded players could not play in the next match and team had to play men down next match.

We also had other kid’s team have 3 very dubious goals called back resulting in a loss. Reffing was all over the board and with zero sideline refs at Muldoon the balls crossing goal line were not seen, nor clear offsides.

What are you going to do? I always tell my kids you can control how you play, you can’t control the reffing. That’s soccer. It was so crazy that we could only laugh about it at the end of the day.