Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 10:12     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.


Sure it will. Your kid will have a hard time in a top 20 school bc of his SN.


LOL, I doubt that very much as he got a 36 on the act and had a 4.2 GPA -- extremely gifted. They also have accommodations in the top 20 school. And his processing speed has been improving, so maybe he won't need the accommodations. Nice try again. Jealous your kid only got in his safety I guess


Your child is not as smart as you believe he is. He’s a 33 ACT kid. He only got into a top 20 college because he got time and a half.


Talk about delusional. You’re cheating the system. Time and half would allow most 30+ ACT kids to score a perfect score. LOL


+1 I don’t think parents no realize how easy the ACT is. It’s a joke. If you have extra time you better be scoring a 34-36. This is what’s so free starting for other kids. They have to think so fast they make careless mistakes and don’t have time to check their work.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 10:10     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Can we see the bell curve of ACT scores by kids taking extra time?

My hunch is the statistics will show a huge bubble on the right hand side of the curve. If there is a huge number of kids getting extra time and scoring above 30 and they showed these statistics—nail in the coffin for this scam.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 10:09     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
THE POINT IS TO GIVE A CHANCE TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T FIT THE MOLD SO THEY CAN BETTER CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY.

You have to do away with the notion that if people can't be productive within restrictive and completely arbitrary conditions, they are essentially a lost cause and do not deserve a chance to show what they can do at the next level. Closing doors at any step in their education (testing and tracking start in elementary school) ensures that a portion of potentially productive people are left out and it increases the risk they will become a burden to society.

Just because someone has ADHD, Asperger's, dyslexia, or whatever else, does not mean they are not intelligent and can't invent or create something wonderful for humanity. These people may not all fit into menial jobs if you prevent them from getting a high school or college diploma.

I feel strongly about this because both my husband and son are GT/LD (gifted, talented and learning disabled). My husband has an MD and a PhD. He was given many second and third chances in his life because people recognized his gifts among his quirkiness. He has done research in cancer and other common and deadly ailments. My son has the same quirks and would not be a good fit to work at McDonald's - he is academic like his father. We are grateful that the system allows for such out-of-the-norm people to still get to where their intellect leads them.

Instead of short-sightedly thinking this hurts neurotypical students' chances, please realize that allowing alternate paths for differently-abled students enables society to benefit from the combined work of a plurality of the population.




Thank you for this. Unfortunately, it falls on deaf ears. For those of us with stronger understanding, it's just so obvious. It's the average NT people like OP who just don't have the intellect to understand these things.


But the hard feelings here aren’t:
NT v SN
It’s NT v abusers of SN designations

That’s the “competition” that bugs us. It’s alll competition. I can get over that simple fact, but not happy with those who don’t need it abusing the system.

I think some of us feel quite extreme about it, and extreme enough to say “you now what? Let’s truly standardize it, and if ADD takes a point hit, it might be worth it. They’ll turn out fine.”
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 10:07     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.


Sure it will. Your kid will have a hard time in a top 20 school bc of his SN.


LOL, I doubt that very much as he got a 36 on the act and had a 4.2 GPA -- extremely gifted. They also have accommodations in the top 20 school. And his processing speed has been improving, so maybe he won't need the accommodations. Nice try again. Jealous your kid only got in his safety I guess


Your child is not as smart as you believe he is. He’s a 33 ACT kid. He only got into a top 20 college because he got time and a half.


Talk about delusional. You’re cheating the system. Time and half would allow most 30+ ACT kids to score a perfect score. LOL
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 10:06     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:

Back then you could get into your state school with a C average and middling scores. There was probably more neurodiversity back then in top schools than there is now. It would be nice if my DC didn't need the extra supports but that is not the case for all tasks.


I'm guessing this is not the case. Students with learning differences were generally not adequately supported in their younger years and I'm sure many of them just didn't make it to college. Luckily, that was a time when it was a lot easier to earn an ok living without a college education.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 10:05     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:The accomodation-medical complex will fight this tooth and nail. So i wont fight that battle.

Instead I think kids who do not get extra time should indicate it on their applications.


Brilliant idea. But what will prevent an applicant to lie on the application, after taking extra time on the standardized test? After all, we now have proof that some parents bribed to get athletic admissions to their non-athlete kids into elite colleges. We now have proof some parents bribe to have extra time given to their kids for standardized testing, or to have their kids' answers corrected before submitting the answer sheet, or even to have someone else take the test for their kids. In many of these cases the kids are reluctant, if not willing, participants in the fraud.

A better solution is for College Board and ACT organization to designate "standard time" next to the score of students who did not take extra time. I am sure, no one will object to a truthful comment to appear next to the score of someone else's kid. After all, the comment is true.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 10:02     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:Truth is, more time on a (proctored, closed book) standardized test doesn’t make you smarter or enable you to know more. It just gives people a chance to show what they already know/can do.


No way. Extra time would help everyone. Timed tests are much more stressful and require you to think quickly in less than ideal ways. I guarantee you that I would absolutely score higher if I had extra time.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 10:00     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
THE POINT IS TO GIVE A CHANCE TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T FIT THE MOLD SO THEY CAN BETTER CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY.

You have to do away with the notion that if people can't be productive within restrictive and completely arbitrary conditions, they are essentially a lost cause and do not deserve a chance to show what they can do at the next level. Closing doors at any step in their education (testing and tracking start in elementary school) ensures that a portion of potentially productive people are left out and it increases the risk they will become a burden to society.

Just because someone has ADHD, Asperger's, dyslexia, or whatever else, does not mean they are not intelligent and can't invent or create something wonderful for humanity. These people may not all fit into menial jobs if you prevent them from getting a high school or college diploma.

I feel strongly about this because both my husband and son are GT/LD (gifted, talented and learning disabled). My husband has an MD and a PhD. He was given many second and third chances in his life because people recognized his gifts among his quirkiness. He has done research in cancer and other common and deadly ailments. My son has the same quirks and would not be a good fit to work at McDonald's - he is academic like his father. We are grateful that the system allows for such out-of-the-norm people to still get to where their intellect leads them.

Instead of short-sightedly thinking this hurts neurotypical students' chances, please realize that allowing alternate paths for differently-abled students enables society to benefit from the combined work of a plurality of the population.




Thank you for this. Unfortunately, it falls on deaf ears. For those of us with stronger understanding, it's just so obvious. It's the average NT people like OP who just don't have the intellect to understand these things.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 09:59     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Half the professors at universities are unique learners who may have qualified for accommodations if they were in school today. Professors don't care if students need more time. Many students with special needs are extremely bright. My gifted DC with ASD and ADHD has a verbal IQ of 150. DC needs more time to take in information, organize thoughts, and write due to fine motor problems and problems with executive function. BTW not providing reasonable accommodations to students who demonstrate a need for them can show what they know and participate meaningfully in school with their peers is considered discriminatory by federal law.


And yet they still ended up as college professors. They did not need accommodations to get where they were meant to be. It’s interesting that you think your child cannot and needs help. Maybe he doesn’t?


Back then you could get into your state school with a C average and middling scores. There was probably more neurodiversity back then in top schools than there is now. It would be nice if my DC didn't need the extra supports but that is not the case for all tasks.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 09:56     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Truth is, more time on a (proctored, closed book) standardized test doesn’t make you smarter or enable you to know more. It just gives people a chance to show what they already know/can do.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 09:37     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:Half the professors at universities are unique learners who may have qualified for accommodations if they were in school today. Professors don't care if students need more time. Many students with special needs are extremely bright. My gifted DC with ASD and ADHD has a verbal IQ of 150. DC needs more time to take in information, organize thoughts, and write due to fine motor problems and problems with executive function. BTW not providing reasonable accommodations to students who demonstrate a need for them can show what they know and participate meaningfully in school with their peers is considered discriminatory by federal law.


And yet they still ended up as college professors. They did not need accommodations to get where they were meant to be. It’s interesting that you think your child cannot and needs help. Maybe he doesn’t?
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 09:35     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:Half the professors at universities are unique learners who may have qualified for accommodations if they were in school today. Professors don't care if students need more time. Many students with special needs are extremely bright. My gifted DC with ASD and ADHD has a verbal IQ of 150. DC needs more time to take in information, organize thoughts, and write due to fine motor problems and problems with executive function. BTW not providing reasonable accommodations to students who demonstrate a need for them can show what they know and participate meaningfully in school with their peers is considered discriminatory by federal law.


"To show what they know" not "can show". PP
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 09:33     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.


Sure it will. Your kid will have a hard time in a top 20 school bc of his SN.


LOL, I doubt that very much as he got a 36 on the act and had a 4.2 GPA -- extremely gifted. They also have accommodations in the top 20 school. And his processing speed has been improving, so maybe he won't need the accommodations. Nice try again. Jealous your kid only got in his safety I guess


Your child is not as smart as you believe he is. He’s a 33 ACT kid. He only got into a top 20 college because he got time and a half.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 09:30     Subject: Re:The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:either your kid is dumb and the accommodations make a difference or he bright and your are taking advantage of the system. you can't have it both ways. given how dumb his mother is i am going with the first scenario.

This sounds like something a teenager would say, someone so unfamiliar with the topic that they've never heard of 2e.


everybody has heard of 2e. it’s a label given to parents to help them deal with their disappointment with their kids.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2019 09:30     Subject: The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions
Half the professors at universities are unique learners who may have qualified for accommodations if they were in school today. Professors don't care if students need more time. Many students with special needs are extremely bright. My gifted DC with ASD and ADHD has a verbal IQ of 150. DC needs more time to take in information, organize thoughts, and write due to fine motor problems and problems with executive function. BTW not providing reasonable accommodations to students who demonstrate a need for them can show what they know and participate meaningfully in school with their peers is considered discriminatory by federal law.