Anonymous wrote:It is largely a myth. And depends on what college.

More relevant question: Is your child attending an under-resourced high school with a high poverty rate? Doing relatively well despite that disadvantage? Will they be the generation to go to college in your family?

A student with somewhat lower standardized test score but strong grades, outstanding rec letters may still be admitted at some more selective colleges.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see how you can say that it is huge. What this data shows is that the average black student at Harvard has scores that are in the 95th percentile or higher of all test takers (a 1400 is at the 95 percentile and this data would say that the average is 1408). Certainly that indicates that those students are strong test takers against most high school students. And of course a substantial number of the black students are higher than that. So there are a few kids who are otherwise strong applicants who get in with slightly strong test scores than other applicants, but it is not like those kids are getting in with actually low test scores.

+1 95% will do well at Harvard--any race. Discriminating against Asians based on personality is wrong. But let's not act like the gap is the same as someone at the 75% vs 99%.

actually I look at the harvard course choices from 30 years ago and those from this year, now that I am looking for my child, and I see way more "pre-AP", intro-type courses that last up to the entire first 2 years compared to those available when I was there - they have clearly made a whole new "underclass" track for getting degrees compared to the academic track that use to be there; after I saw this, I am seriously wondering if it is even worth it or desirable to send my kid there, it seems to have lost most of it "academic mojo" recently

Sorry to go off topic but which schools were you impressed by and would consider for your child?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see how you can say that it is huge. What this data shows is that the average black student at Harvard has scores that are in the 95th percentile or higher of all test takers (a 1400 is at the 95 percentile and this data would say that the average is 1408). Certainly that indicates that those students are strong test takers against most high school students. And of course a substantial number of the black students are higher than that. So there are a few kids who are otherwise strong applicants who get in with slightly strong test scores than other applicants, but it is not like those kids are getting in with actually low test scores.

+1 95% will do well at Harvard--any race. Discriminating against Asians based on personality is wrong. But let's not act like the gap is the same as someone at the 75% vs 99%.

actually I look at the harvard course choices from 30 years ago and those from this year, now that I am looking for my child, and I see way more "pre-AP", intro-type courses that last up to the entire first 2 years compared to those available when I was there - they have clearly made a whole new "underclass" track for getting degrees compared to the academic track that use to be there; after I saw this, I am seriously wondering if it is even worth it or desirable to send my kid there, it seems to have lost most of it "academic mojo" recently

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see how you can say that it is huge. What this data shows is that the average black student at Harvard has scores that are in the 95th percentile or higher of all test takers (a 1400 is at the 95 percentile and this data would say that the average is 1408). Certainly that indicates that those students are strong test takers against most high school students. And of course a substantial number of the black students are higher than that. So there are a few kids who are otherwise strong applicants who get in with slightly strong test scores than other applicants, but it is not like those kids are getting in with actually low test scores.

+1 95% will do well at Harvard--any race. Discriminating against Asians based on personality is wrong. But let's not act like the gap is the same as someone at the 75% vs 99%.

actually I look at the harvard course choices from 30 years ago and those from this year, now that I am looking for my child, and I see way more "pre-AP", intro-type courses that last up to the entire first 2 years compared to those available when I was there - they have clearly made a whole new "underclass" track for getting degrees compared to the academic track that use to be there; after I saw this, I am seriously wondering if it is even worth it or desirable to send my kid there, it seems to have lost most of it "academic mojo" recently

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see how you can say that it is huge. What this data shows is that the average black student at Harvard has scores that are in the 95th percentile or higher of all test takers (a 1400 is at the 95 percentile and this data would say that the average is 1408). Certainly that indicates that those students are strong test takers against most high school students. And of course a substantial number of the black students are higher than that. So there are a few kids who are otherwise strong applicants who get in with slightly strong test scores than other applicants, but it is not like those kids are getting in with actually low test scores.

+1 95% will do well at Harvard--any race. Discriminating against Asians based on personality is wrong. But let's not act like the gap is the same as someone at the 75% vs 99%.

actually I look at the harvard course choices from 30 years ago and those from this year, now that I am looking for my child, and I see way more "pre-AP", intro-type courses that last up to the entire first 2 years compared to those available when I was there - they have clearly made a whole new "underclass" track for getting degrees compared to the academic track that use to be there; after I saw this, I am seriously wondering if it is even worth it or desirable to send my kid there, it seems to have lost most of it "academic mojo" recently

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see how you can say that it is huge. What this data shows is that the average black student at Harvard has scores that are in the 95th percentile or higher of all test takers (a 1400 is at the 95 percentile and this data would say that the average is 1408). Certainly that indicates that those students are strong test takers against most high school students. And of course a substantial number of the black students are higher than that. So there are a few kids who are otherwise strong applicants who get in with slightly strong test scores than other applicants, but it is not like those kids are getting in with actually low test scores.

+1 95% will do well at Harvard--any race. Discriminating against Asians based on personality is wrong. But let's not act like the gap is the same as someone at the 75% vs 99%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is largely a myth. And depends on what college.

More relevant question: Is your child attending an under-resourced high school with a high poverty rate? Doing relatively well despite that disadvantage? Will they be the generation to go to college in your family?

A student with somewhat lower standardized test score but strong grades, outstanding rec letters may still be admitted at some more selective colleges.

Except that it's not. The fact is that you are at a disadvantage if you are Asian, and you have a clear advantage if you are Black or Hispanic.

Repeating something untrue won’t make it true.

You are not familiar with the data produced in the Harvard lawsuit? There are loads of news articles.

Based only on scores alone. Do you not understand holistic admissions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is largely a myth. And depends on what college.

More relevant question: Is your child attending an under-resourced high school with a high poverty rate? Doing relatively well despite that disadvantage? Will they be the generation to go to college in your family?

A student with somewhat lower standardized test score but strong grades, outstanding rec letters may still be admitted at some more selective colleges.

Except that it's not. The fact is that you are at a disadvantage if you are Asian, and you have a clear advantage if you are Black or Hispanic.

Repeating something untrue won’t make it true.

You are not familiar with the data produced in the Harvard lawsuit? There are loads of news articles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:into colleges more easily than non-minorities? I thought that was a myth.

My high school age child is black and Hispanic, do colleges cut some slack if your GPA and SATs are ok but not great.

Serious question. Thanks.

De donde sois?

Cuentanos un poco la historia de vuestro hijo o hija, y quiza podemos ayudar.

Thanks for the opinions and feedback, I'm the OP. We are not low income although we are minorities (our parents were though!) I doubt we will even qualify for financial aid. I don't even care if he goes to a top school, I just want him to go to a college, study something and enjoy his college years. Unfortunately he has a disability so school is hard for him I'm hopeful he can get into a state college or any college and him being a minority didn't really cross my mind as being helpful, his counselor is only interested in the high flyers at the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:into colleges more easily than non-minorities? I thought that was a myth.

My high school age child is black and Hispanic, do colleges cut some slack if your GPA and SATs are ok but not great.

Serious question. Thanks.

There is a frequently posted Harvard Crimson article showing the differences in incoming students’ SAT scores by race. Google it. You will get cut some slack by being an under-represented minority (black, Hispanic, or Native American).

I can only go by my experience 20 years ago. As an AA student at a top 20 school, many of my friends were in high school magnet programs, GT, programs private schools etc. There were some that were valedictorian or within top 5 of their school and some that were in the top x% of the school. No one was an average student in high school.

Personally, I am not raising my daughter to assume there is any slack. There is just too much competition out there for college admissions and the top schools are recruiting not just from the US but internationally.

THIS!!!!

Anonymous wrote:I don't see how you can say that it is huge. What this data shows is that the average black student at Harvard has scores that are in the 95th percentile or higher of all test takers (a 1400 is at the 95 percentile and this data would say that the average is 1408). Certainly that indicates that those students are strong test takers against most high school students. And of course a substantial number of the black students are higher than that. So there are a few kids who are otherwise strong applicants who get in with slightly strong test scores than other applicants, but it is not like those kids are getting in with actually low test scores.

Anonymous wrote:The URM hook adds some interestingness (from the admission office's perspective) to the applicant in the bigger context of holistic admissions. It doesn't mean that URMs admitted to Harvard aren't of sufficient academic strength, even if their scores as a group average a little lower.

The problem for Harvard isn't so much the lower test scores for URMs. It's the lower ratings on the personality scale for Asians within the system by which the college tries to quantify subjective qualities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how all of these schools are just FULL of students of color and no white people, right?

Students of color face certain barriers in and out of the classroom, even those coming from privilege. White people often want to comfort themselves by pointing to SAT scores in this argument, but we all know quite well that admissions decisions aren't about test scores, but about the whole package.

The data points laid bare for Harvard are a little overblown in my mind. I think the difference for black students was something like 60 SAT points? How that one data point becomes a blanket indicted of all URMs is what is sad.

Here is the actual breakdown, and the data is not even from the last five years and is JUST for Harvard:

Average SAT score across all sections (1995-2013)
Asians - 767
White - 745
Hispanic - 718
Native Americans - 712
African Americans - 704

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/10/22/asian-american-admit-sat-scores/

What is frustrating to me as an African American person with a kid at an Ivy is why aren't people asking why this disparity exists and dealing with it. I can tell you from my recent experience that the cohort of black students are not all poor, under-resourced students. Many come from two-parent households with decent incomes and the whole nine-yards of support you would expect from high-achieving students. Why aren't we asking more sophisticated questions instead of reducing students down to a single data-point?

Also too the numbers of URM students, especially black students is pretty small. I don't understand how a single test score make you unworthy of attending these schools. My kid is excelling in college and had admission test scores in the middle 50%.

60 x 2 is 120 points. That is substantial