Thanks to everyone for the info on Achilles.

With this flexible approach to rosters and moving kids up and down, how many kids do they typically have at the club for each age year?

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how they rearrange the rosters. Don't most leagues have fixed rosters they have to submit at the beginning of the season? How can they switch kids around from game to game as PPs have described. How is this for the parents not knowing the schedules in advance?

I believe most leagues allow for 'dual rostered' players that can play for multiple teams during the year (but not necessarily in the same weekend). I'm not sure how it works here but at our previous club which ran this academy system we would get notification on Tuesday or Wednesday of which team we would be playing for that weekend. As most of the games are in the general area, it doesn't really make a difference if you are playing Team 1 at Soccerplex and Team 2 at Richard Montgomery, so long as you know you have a game on Saturday morning, Sunday afternoon, etc.

If he has no quick and accurate passing and extensive ball skills he will not make the top team and you should not expect him to. Nor should he.
He should make the third team down, develop and work his way up.
What’s wrong with that exactly??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read this, I had to laugh. Whoever wrote this is being totally and completely disingenuous. I wouldn't even be surprised if the author is working for the club. I will try to cut through the bs and shed some light on the truth. The current 09 team (rising 10 team) is very good. No child trying out should expect to make that team (or the #1 team if there are 2) unless they are an incredibly strong player. I don't know if the current 09s (rising 10s) have a second team. However, if they do, it will be a SAM Select team---meaning, there is pretty much no comparison between the two teams. The EDP team will get all of the focus and best practice times and the SAM team will receive good training, but not much else despite paying the same amount. There is barely any movement between #1 team and #2 team ever. The head coach tells parents that to placate them. From the get go, he has pretty much determined who is on the #1 team and who will never be. And, yes, it is completely true that the rosters are too big that and several kids are not likely to get any play time, particularly if it is a competitive game. Trust me--there might not be a "red, white or blue team" but unless kids are oblivious, they "know their place".

New soccer parents here. What do you mean by "From the get go, he has pretty much determined who is on the #1 team and who will never be"? How does the coach determine if player A is better than player B? Is a fair system if the coach is the final arbiter?

Sorry I have to ask because I swam in HS and the coach determines the roster and starting spot is the time trial.

There’s a lot of confusing talk on here. Achilles coaches will select their best available rosters for each team and each age. It’s hard to imagine why any coach would do it differently. The only big difference is that rosters are rearranged throughout the year based in kids’ performance in practices and games, rather than the standard model of only adjusting once a year or season. Also incredibly important is that Achilles training is excellent.

As for comparing to swimming, rostering in soccer is always a challenge. Achilles coaches, like most coaches in the world, choose rosters that set their teams up best to be successful at their style of play. Even professional coaches at the highest levels make decisions that most wonder about. People still wonder why Klinsman dropped Landon Donovan from the World Cup roster years ago, and the same happens weekly in every league from youth to pro. Achilles coaches do their best at every level and agonize about who will improve each team.

I don't understand how they rearrange the rosters. Don't most leagues have fixed rosters they have to submit at the beginning of the season? How can they switch kids around from game to game as PPs have described. How is this for the parents not knowing the schedules in advance?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Achilles parent here - It’s true on the higher division teams that not all players get to play in a match. Also, Sal frequently brings in kids from other clubs (e.g., DC United) to play in the tournaments and they end up getting far more playing time than some of the Achilles players. If your son will struggle with this prospect then before committing to the club I would ask Sal if he plans to continue these situations in the fall, or if his model is going to change. It’s a new(ish) club so it’s possible.

Are parents really ok with non-club kids playing instead of theirs in tournaments!?

No. It shows the club’s claim that it is about development over winning is complete BS. Sal wants to make a name for himself and that comes first.

As for St. John’s - it is my sense that it didn’t allow Sal to use the fields as much as he needs because some teams have fewer practices than the club committed, so the club is looking into other options. This is all just speculation since the club never communicated why there are fewer practices than we paid for (while other teams get 3), what the plan is, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Former Achilles parent here - It’s true on the higher division teams that not all players get to play in a match. Also, Sal frequently brings in kids from other clubs (e.g., DC United) to play in the tournaments and they end up getting far more playing time than some of the Achilles players. If your son will struggle with this prospect then before committing to the club I would ask Sal if he plans to continue these situations in the fall, or if his model is going to change. It’s a new(ish) club so it’s possible.

Are parents really ok with non-club kids playing instead of theirs in tournaments!?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do they practice? They listed St John's College High School on their website, do they alway practice there? thanks.

Yes they always practice at St. John’s but this could change next season depending on field availability

Is something happening to the St. John’s field or you mean just regular field availability conflicts with school events?

Agonize?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read this, I had to laugh. Whoever wrote this is being totally and completely disingenuous. I wouldn't even be surprised if the author is working for the club. I will try to cut through the bs and shed some light on the truth. The current 09 team (rising 10 team) is very good. No child trying out should expect to make that team (or the #1 team if there are 2) unless they are an incredibly strong player. I don't know if the current 09s (rising 10s) have a second team. However, if they do, it will be a SAM Select team---meaning, there is pretty much no comparison between the two teams. The EDP team will get all of the focus and best practice times and the SAM team will receive good training, but not much else despite paying the same amount. There is barely any movement between #1 team and #2 team ever. The head coach tells parents that to placate them. From the get go, he has pretty much determined who is on the #1 team and who will never be. And, yes, it is completely true that the rosters are too big that and several kids are not likely to get any play time, particularly if it is a competitive game. Trust me--there might not be a "red, white or blue team" but unless kids are oblivious, they "know their place".

New soccer parents here. What do you mean by "From the get go, he has pretty much determined who is on the #1 team and who will never be"? How does the coach determine if player A is better than player B? Is a fair system if the coach is the final arbiter?

Sorry I have to ask because I swam in HS and the coach determines the roster and starting spot is the time trial.

There’s a lot of confusing talk on here. Achilles coaches will select their best available rosters for each team and each age. It’s hard to imagine why any coach would do it differently. The only big difference is that rosters are rearranged throughout the year based in kids’ performance in practices and games, rather than the standard model of only adjusting once a year or season. Also incredibly important is that Achilles training is excellent.

As for comparing to swimming, rostering in soccer is always a challenge. Achilles coaches, like most coaches in the world, choose rosters that set their teams up best to be successful at their style of play. Even professional coaches at the highest levels make decisions that most wonder about. People still wonder why Klinsman dropped Landon Donovan from the World Cup roster years ago, and the same happens weekly in every league from youth to pro. Achilles coaches do their best at every level and agonize about who will improve each team.

Anonymous wrote:When I read this, I had to laugh. Whoever wrote this is being totally and completely disingenuous. I wouldn't even be surprised if the author is working for the club. I will try to cut through the bs and shed some light on the truth. The current 09 team (rising 10 team) is very good. No child trying out should expect to make that team (or the #1 team if there are 2) unless they are an incredibly strong player. I don't know if the current 09s (rising 10s) have a second team. However, if they do, it will be a SAM Select team---meaning, there is pretty much no comparison between the two teams. The EDP team will get all of the focus and best practice times and the SAM team will receive good training, but not much else despite paying the same amount. There is barely any movement between #1 team and #2 team ever. The head coach tells parents that to placate them. From the get go, he has pretty much determined who is on the #1 team and who will never be. And, yes, it is completely true that the rosters are too big that and several kids are not likely to get any play time, particularly if it is a competitive game. Trust me--there might not be a "red, white or blue team" but unless kids are oblivious, they "know their place".

New soccer parents here. What do you mean by "From the get go, he has pretty much determined who is on the #1 team and who will never be"? How does the coach determine if player A is better than player B? Is a fair system if the coach is the final arbiter?

Sorry I have to ask because I swam in HS and the coach determines the roster and starting spot is the time trial.

And what is the difference between Achilles and DC Stoddert travel?

Anonymous wrote:My son is a top player on a strong Rec team and is looking at travel options. Given what has been said about Achilles, I doubt he would make the top team -- but is it so competitive that someone coming from Rec has no shot at all? I don't want to send him to tryouts only to be completely crushed. Thoughts?

Unlike a team like Bethesda, Potomac, Arlington or Alexandria, Achilles is very new. There are great coaches at the club and some very talented kids on the 09 team already. But the 08 and 09 top teams only have 4-5 sure starters from week to week. The club has attracted some really strong players- a few grown there in the last couple years, a couple who moved over. There's sometimes a clear difference in levels on the same field in games. It often seems with better established clubs that the whole team is often more level on ability, while there might be a star or two. But Achilles would definitely benefit from a couple more top level players, whether they come from rec depends how good the kid was in rec, whether he plays outside of rec, and how quickly he learns.

I can think of two kids who came straight from rec and they had a huge learning curve. But they're playing with the top teams and it's because they've worked hard at and outside of practie.

What doesn't seem to matter at achilles is size. I'd guess the big, fast kids didn't consider Achilles when it was new. Achilles teams are often smaller than the kids they play against and not every kid is fast, but they make up for it with passing and ability to win one on ones. But of course, size and speed are always great if a kid has them and I'm sure the coaches would love it (with skills, of course).

Former Achilles parent here - It’s true on the higher division teams that not all players get to play in a match. Also, Sal frequently brings in kids from other clubs (e.g., DC United) to play in the tournaments and they end up getting far more playing time than some of the Achilles players. If your son will struggle with this prospect then before committing to the club I would ask Sal if he plans to continue these situations in the fall, or if his model is going to change. It’s a new(ish) club so it’s possible.

Anonymous wrote:Where do they practice? They listed St John's College High School on their website, do they alway practice there? thanks.

Yes they always practice at St. John’s but this could change next season depending on field availability

Our son has played at both, BSC and Achilles and note that two of the coaches coached at BSC previously. The primary difference between the two (and many of the other clubs) is that it isn’t a one coach, one team approach. The boys train as a club with mixed ages but will also be broken up into their own age groups depending on the station drills being run. Usually the four coaches are all participating as well. This imparts and reinforces the playing philosophy across the club. The intensity of the training and the level of attention on the development of critical technical elements is what differentiates AFC from others in my opinion.

The best age entry point into the club is as young as possible (7-8).If a player enters in at 12 and is not technically sound (very good ball control, 1-2 touch play) they won’t make it. If your player has always been the most athletic, that doesn’t really matter at AFC and your player will have a tough time acclimating. Winning is desirable of course but not when it sacrifices the way the club requires the teams to play. I don’t see where BSC grooms players more so than it recruits players based upon brand recognition.

NP here, and Achilles parent - I agree with all of this and would add that the top level teams will not be training with the lower level teams unlike at BSC. They also, as a previous poster noted, get additional training time that the lower teams don’t. Also, Sal barely gives the time of day to the lower level teams and is not involved with their training except sometimes at summer camp. The other 3 coaches who are all excellent though (go on the website, it describes their experience) so as another poster said, it doesn’t matter, except to the extent that it may make some kids feel like they are just not good enough in Sal’s opinion. And this might actually be the case, but as another poster noted, how can those kids ever expect to move up if they get less training and never train with kids that are better than they are? Is this any different from the scenario at Bethesda? Not really. Things to consider if your son is thinking about trying out.