Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:54     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Baby Boomers (or whatever), with regards to millennials: they don’t understand the Pericles of critical thinking!

Same people: those illenials don’t blindly follow instructions and obey my expertise immediately after getting it! They don’t respect my purported knowledge and “expertise”. Why do they ask so many questions?!


Yes, these are both problems.

It would be nice if the people in question would question authority in a way that used critical thinking skills, rather than just whatever sounded most dramatic and exciting, but that does seem rather rare.


Well, one person on this side is educated and PAID (quite well) to offer a service to, educate, and assist the other.

The other gets to be who ever they are.

Also, there’s the Oath. Seems so many doctors forget that they are there to HELP, not just “treat”.


They do. And if either party to the interaction believes it is not helpful to engage together, then either can say this is not working. With the exception, of course, of actual emergency medical services.

People get to be who they are. Some ways of being are going to be more helpful than others, and no matter how good the professional is at every aspect of the job, they cannot help people who are not engaged effectively. Both parties have rights and responsibilities. That doesn't mean there isn't more weight on the physician to keep trying and exert more patience, calmness, and understanding, but we are all in this together.

By "the Oath," you mean Hippocratic? It's a lot more complicated than that. There is not a single oath anymore. The original also has wording that prohibits being involved in the removal of kidney (or gallbladder) stones, and a vow not to prescribe things like chemotherapy. So, not really up to date.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:53     Subject: Re:Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:Well I'm 38 and it took until these last few years to finally find physicians I felt were evidence-based, thorough, and didn't treat me like a twit (when typically they were the twit who I couldn't trust to properly diagnose a condition or refer me to a specialist who could provide better care). Somehow we got lucky on the first go with my DD's pediatrician, who is great.

And I'm an UMC white woman who waited until my 30s to have children. I can't imagine what it's like for a single twenty-something mom from a less privileged background, with fewer choices. They've probably experienced all manner of mistreatment by medical professionals. Just going through the maternity care assembly line is a huge reality check in itself for most women. I can't imagine going through that as a young adult.

So OP, it might be that your care (or that of your collective profession) isn't as great as you think it is and these young women have picked up on that.


Maternity care assembly line is exactly how it feels. I will use this term again!

The worst is after you give birth it’s like you’re discarded and no doctor will look at you. I never even had a post birth checkup just a phone call and we mostly discussed the baby. Not my traumatic delivery. Baby had a shoulder dystocia with a broken clavicle. No one cared for me post partial other than dh.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:49     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
I agree mostly with Op. I am shocked at the anti medical advice rhetoric pouring out of lower class young white women. Even on my Facebook feeds it’s ridiculous.

But I will say that while pregnant my OBs didn’t listen to me at all. I didn’t want to be induced and I was shocked at how they reacted. I still don’t believe my inductions were necessary. But my OBs pulled the insurance card. They said if I refused induction they couldn’t be held responsible and discussed having me sign papers from Kaiser. I am healthy, gained 25lbs, was under 35 and had two children easily. Alas my inductions took over 40 hours on pitocin.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:43     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Medical Profession: Opioid crisis, Tuskegee Experiment, Larry Nassar, and the many, many other examples of horrific abuse, racism, sexism, and more by the medical profession.

Medical Profession: Why don't you trust us and just do what we say?

It's a mystery.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:40     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Baby Boomers (or whatever), with regards to millennials: they don’t understand the Pericles of critical thinking!

Same people: those illenials don’t blindly follow instructions and obey my expertise immediately after getting it! They don’t respect my purported knowledge and “expertise”. Why do they ask so many questions?!


Yes, these are both problems.

It would be nice if the people in question would question authority in a way that used critical thinking skills, rather than just whatever sounded most dramatic and exciting, but that does seem rather rare.


Well, one person on this side is educated and PAID (quite well) to offer a service to, educate, and assist the other.

The other gets to be who ever they are.

Also, there’s the Oath. Seems so many doctors forget that they are there to HELP, not just “treat”.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:30     Subject: Re:Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:Well I'm 38 and it took until these last few years to finally find physicians I felt were evidence-based, thorough, and didn't treat me like a twit (when typically they were the twit who I couldn't trust to properly diagnose a condition or refer me to a specialist who could provide better care). Somehow we got lucky on the first go with my DD's pediatrician, who is great.

And I'm an UMC white woman who waited until my 30s to have children. I can't imagine what it's like for a single twenty-something mom from a less privileged background, with fewer choices. They've probably experienced all manner of mistreatment by medical professionals. Just going through the maternity care assembly line is a huge reality check in itself for most women. I can't imagine going through that as a young adult.

So OP, it might be that your care (or that of your collective profession) isn't as great as you think it is and these young women have picked up on that.


Those young women often get the worst physicians too.

You are also right in that the twits are the doctors who cannot explain their care so resort to condescension. Op is likely a terrible doctor who makes too many mistakes and reacts defensively.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:29     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:Baby Boomers (or whatever), with regards to millennials: they don’t understand the Pericles of critical thinking!

Same people: those illenials don’t blindly follow instructions and obey my expertise immediately after getting it! They don’t respect my purported knowledge and “expertise”. Why do they ask so many questions?!


Yes, these are both problems.

It would be nice if the people in question would question authority in a way that used critical thinking skills, rather than just whatever sounded most dramatic and exciting, but that does seem rather rare.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:22     Subject: Re:Very young moms and their “research”
Well I'm 38 and it took until these last few years to finally find physicians I felt were evidence-based, thorough, and didn't treat me like a twit (when typically they were the twit who I couldn't trust to properly diagnose a condition or refer me to a specialist who could provide better care). Somehow we got lucky on the first go with my DD's pediatrician, who is great.

And I'm an UMC white woman who waited until my 30s to have children. I can't imagine what it's like for a single twenty-something mom from a less privileged background, with fewer choices. They've probably experienced all manner of mistreatment by medical professionals. Just going through the maternity care assembly line is a huge reality check in itself for most women. I can't imagine going through that as a young adult.

So OP, it might be that your care (or that of your collective profession) isn't as great as you think it is and these young women have picked up on that.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:20     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:DH had a case where a 3-year-old kept coming in with strep. He kept prescribing antibiotics until he said they’d need to admit him because they just weren’t working. The mother then casually mentioned she’d never given him the antibiotic because she didn’t want him to get resistant to it.

Last night, 60 Minutes ran a story about the worldwide health crisis of "superbugs" becoming resistant to antibiotics. Why? Because doctors are over-prescribing anti-biotics, which are truly needed in only one-third of medical cases.

These young moms have a point.

-- An older mom


Not about strep, they don't. And given the example you are using, neither do you.

This is exactly the problem -- you don't know what you don't know, and you are comfortable with proclaiming things that you really don't understand, instead of getting accurate information.

There is quite literally no resistance to penicillin -- worldwide -- for Group A strep bacteria (the kind responsible for the kind of strep throat that needs to be treated). It is treated to prevent the possibility of lifelong heart valve damage.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:19     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
People should be very wary of their doctors and constantly look out of signs of ineptitude. It would save so much heartache and illness progression if people would question and expect more from their healthcare providers. They should be capable, up to date on latest protocol and studies in their fields and willing to listen. If they glaze over at concerns and cannot articulate an explanation for their methods find someone else. There are many great and capable doctors that can help you find a solution but dismissive ones like op are to be avoided at all costs.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:12     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DH had a case where a 3-year-old kept coming in with strep. He kept prescribing antibiotics until he said they’d need to admit him because they just weren’t working. The mother then casually mentioned she’d never given him the antibiotic because she didn’t want him to get resistant to it.

Last night, 60 Minutes ran a story about the worldwide health crisis of "superbugs" becoming resistant to antibiotics. Why? Because doctors are over-prescribing anti-biotics, which are truly needed in only one-third of medical cases.

These young moms have a point.

-- An older mom


No they don't. There is no problem with asking your Doctor why they are prescribing an antibiotic and understanding what it is that the Doctor is trying to accomplish. I do that all the time. I love my Doctor, and my sons Pediatrician. They both listen, explain what they are looking for, and give a list of options.

For example, I found a tick a few days after we had been back from camping. I have no idea who the tick was there, I had washed my hair twice since returning, brushed by hair, and the like. We did tick checks while we were out. I made an appointment with my Doctor because there was a chance that the tick had been there for more then 48 hours and Lyme is real. My Doctor listened to me and gave me a few options. 1) start on the antibiotic for lyme right away and do a blood test, wait on antibiotics and do the blood test, or wait to see if I developed flu like symptoms in the next few weeks and then do the blood test. I choose to wait on the test and not take the antibiotic. No flu symptoms since that time (it's been 6 months).

I guess it is easy to trust when she prescribes me an antibiotic because I know that she does not jump there right away. I know that when I have a negative reaction to a medicine, which has happened, that I can talk to her, she'll do some fast research, and we will change the plan.

But when a Doctor has a good reason for prescribing antibiotics, like Strep, you take the full amount so that you can get over the Strep. You don't decide to stop the antibiotics because you, or worse your kid, is feeling better. All that means is that you are going to get Strep again.

So all patients should be able to talk to their doctor and understand what the doctor is prescribing and why. But to stop a known effective treatment for a known illness because the news says to be careful with antibiotics is ignorant and dangerous.

For the record, I ask a ton of questions. when DS was a baby he had a high fever and we went to the ER. They wanted to do an x-ray to make sure he didn't have pneumonia. I asked why they were worried about that and they laid out the sequence of events we had given them (cough then high fever) and that could be a sign of pneumonia. Their explanation made sense so did the x-ray. No pneumonia but the flu. When we followed up with his Pediatrician the next day she asked if they did an x-ray for pneumonia and we said yes. She was happy because the progression of illness could have been problematic.

So ask questions but be prepared that the people with the advanced degrees have a good idea about what they are doing. They are not perfect, medicine might be a science but it is not as exact as we would all like it to be, but they do have more information about what works and doesn't work then we do. If your Doctor is always giving you antibiotics, look for a different Doctor.


This. If I get mastitis, I know most cases are self-limiting within X days if patient has good rest and food. I cleared with my doctor that I could wait so long as fever decreased and I avoided antibiotics. Same with pneumonia — self-limiting if viral. I went in, had chat with doctor about risks and courses of action, chose not to get antibiotics and that was it. With a kid who can’t tell you how they feel I’d be more risk averse. But I find most good doctors are willing to talk about reasons for each course of treatment as well as limitations of what is scientifically known.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:12     Subject: Re:Very young moms and their “research”
You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:10     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Baby Boomers (or whatever), with regards to millennials: they don’t understand the Pericles of critical thinking!

Same people: those illenials don’t blindly follow instructions and obey my expertise immediately after getting it! They don’t respect my purported knowledge and “expertise”. Why do they ask so many questions?!
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:02     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:DH had a case where a 3-year-old kept coming in with strep. He kept prescribing antibiotics until he said they’d need to admit him because they just weren’t working. The mother then casually mentioned she’d never given him the antibiotic because she didn’t want him to get resistant to it.

Last night, 60 Minutes ran a story about the worldwide health crisis of "superbugs" becoming resistant to antibiotics. Why? Because doctors are over-prescribing anti-biotics, which are truly needed in only one-third of medical cases.

These young moms have a point.

-- An older mom


No they don't. There is no problem with asking your Doctor why they are prescribing an antibiotic and understanding what it is that the Doctor is trying to accomplish. I do that all the time. I love my Doctor, and my sons Pediatrician. They both listen, explain what they are looking for, and give a list of options.

For example, I found a tick a few days after we had been back from camping. I have no idea who the tick was there, I had washed my hair twice since returning, brushed by hair, and the like. We did tick checks while we were out. I made an appointment with my Doctor because there was a chance that the tick had been there for more then 48 hours and Lyme is real. My Doctor listened to me and gave me a few options. 1) start on the antibiotic for lyme right away and do a blood test, wait on antibiotics and do the blood test, or wait to see if I developed flu like symptoms in the next few weeks and then do the blood test. I choose to wait on the test and not take the antibiotic. No flu symptoms since that time (it's been 6 months).

I guess it is easy to trust when she prescribes me an antibiotic because I know that she does not jump there right away. I know that when I have a negative reaction to a medicine, which has happened, that I can talk to her, she'll do some fast research, and we will change the plan.

But when a Doctor has a good reason for prescribing antibiotics, like Strep, you take the full amount so that you can get over the Strep. You don't decide to stop the antibiotics because you, or worse your kid, is feeling better. All that means is that you are going to get Strep again.

So all patients should be able to talk to their doctor and understand what the doctor is prescribing and why. But to stop a known effective treatment for a known illness because the news says to be careful with antibiotics is ignorant and dangerous.

For the record, I ask a ton of questions. when DS was a baby he had a high fever and we went to the ER. They wanted to do an x-ray to make sure he didn't have pneumonia. I asked why they were worried about that and they laid out the sequence of events we had given them (cough then high fever) and that could be a sign of pneumonia. Their explanation made sense so did the x-ray. No pneumonia but the flu. When we followed up with his Pediatrician the next day she asked if they did an x-ray for pneumonia and we said yes. She was happy because the progression of illness could have been problematic.

So ask questions but be prepared that the people with the advanced degrees have a good idea about what they are doing. They are not perfect, medicine might be a science but it is not as exact as we would all like it to be, but they do have more information about what works and doesn't work then we do. If your Doctor is always giving you antibiotics, look for a different Doctor.
Anonymous
Post 04/22/2019 10:01     Subject: Very young moms and their “research”
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was a young mom - had my son at 24 - and it was TERRIBLE. Every single person thought they knew more than I did about my child (he's fully vaccinated, is now 10, and isn't a spoiled brat), his doctors talked down to me, my own doctors didn't believe when I had health problems related to delivery ("You're too young to be having that problem, only older mothers have that issue"; "Sorry you're still in pain after 5 months, I'm sure you'll feel better soon, call back in 2 weeks if you think you need to be seen by a doctor"; "PPD is pretty common, but your baby is completely perfect, why aren't you happy?"), and I was blamed for pretty much everything that ever went wrong. I had ZERO support, please let these mothers be. TELL THEM that they're doing a great job, LISTEN TO THEM when they tell you things. Don't be dismissive.


This. As a AA mother, I got this a lot too. Our family medicine practice has a few med student interns every year and there's always one who is ready to tell me how to care for my kids and acts as if this must be my first ever visit to a doctor and are shocked to learn I went to grad school. I'm sick of doctors playing down pain (no, I don't have a higher threshold for pain, med students, b/c I'm black) and I've never used a food stamp.

That said, my regular doctor is usually great.


I'm the pp you quoted - I'm white, was in law school when I had my son (unplanned, single, in an abusive relationship), grew up UMC, and was on food stamps at the time because I was in law school. Also was on medicaid. I'm sure all that contributed, but it sure would have been nice to have a pediatrician or doctor for myself who cared and thought to be supportive rather than dismissive.


I think its just easier to write everyone off.


DP, but of course it is. Then you don’t have to look at yourself and question your own perceived awesomeness.