Moderation in everything- including in saving. Saving 20-25percent or so on average over your career seems about right to me. Less when you are starting out, more during your peak earning years.

Think carefully about how to maximize your enjoyment from your money. We have had as much fun camping with friends as staying in swanky hotels.

I'm not retired yet, mid 50s, I believe in having a decent amount of fun while young. I was a broke college student, I mean, really broke. I make decent money now, but don't have an over the top lifestyle. I've seen financial reverses with divorce/loss of jobs/sick family all piled up together. I've seen older people who've blown through their savings from bad health or an imploded economy. I've seen middle aged people teeter financially because older employees aren't as desirable in some fields, or their health went sideways. I've seen schoolmates pass in their 20s.
I advise moderation
Have fun AND have savings

We spent money pre-kids as though our incomes would follow a normal trajectory. WRONG! It was memorable but life happens and our savings are less then they were 20 years ago when we were in our 30s. Yes, we went "backwards" during our so-called prime earning years. Life comes at you fast!

Hard to say which way to go. On one hand, it would be nice to have the money so we wouldn't be getting collections calls from doctors' offices. On the other hand, we had a great time in Africa and we'd probably be broke in our 50s anyway. YOLO, I guess.

Anonymous wrote:Why not both?

Travel but frugally.
Spend where it matters and save where it doesn't

Skip the super-stressful 60 hour a week job.
Skip most of the Target runs.

Spend on travel and therapy and housekeeper every few weeks.

Don't spend like there's no tomorrow. But don't save like now doesn't matter at all.

This is pretty much what we do. It’s hard sometimes when many around us drive Audi’s and stay at the Ritz and have new kitchens. But we save as much as we possibly can while still traveling well and giving our kids a good childhood.

I’ve grappled with this. I got cancer in my early 40 s and am a single parent. For a while I gave up on saving for retirement because I wasn’t convinced I’d get there. I took some vacations I might not other have with my DD and bought her probably more stuff than I should have.

No regrets at all 14 years later. Yes, I don’t have much as I should for retirement although I did start saving again 10 years ago as retirement seems like a viable goal now. But I still weigh saving and YOLO, which sometimes still wins.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Do you know that Scandinavians have some of the highest personal debt amounts in the entire world? They are debt slaves. They also have way less freedom to retire early or do anything remotely different from their peers. You do what the system tells you to do. The way the tax system works you have to take it as large of a mortgage as you can possibly obtain. It’s hardly a perfect place since almost all women have to work to pay for their huge mortgage. They have a much lower disposable income amount as well. The fact you think there is less stress about money in a Scandinavian country is laughable.

I am looking at this from my specific perspective. I doubt I would have any more debt if I lived there vs. here.

Just a simple fact that US does not have a paid maternity leave is all that one has to know whether society cares about its people. US prospered because it was able to import a lot of smart people and outsource the cost of raising them. That seems to be ending and YOLO is definitely to a way to respalmostond to that. I equate YOLO to someone tailgating, basically not thinking ahead and not understanding statistics.

Then you wouldn’t have any net worth. There is a wealth tax on nonreal estate assets and most families have the majority of their net worth tied up in real estate. It’s how you get ahead and you have to borrow to do it. So unless you’re going to live in housing way smaller and not as nice as here, you absolutely would have a lot more debt. Most people in Scandinavia have giant mortgages.

PP is correct. Household debt to income is much higher in Scandinavia than it is in the US. In the U.S. and Japan, debt is about 100% of income. In Denmark, it is almost three times income. Norway almost two and half times, and Sweden nearly two times.

https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm

+1000000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Do you know that Scandinavians have some of the highest personal debt amounts in the entire world? They are debt slaves. They also have way less freedom to retire early or do anything remotely different from their peers. You do what the system tells you to do. The way the tax system works you have to take it as large of a mortgage as you can possibly obtain. It’s hardly a perfect place since almost all women have to work to pay for their huge mortgage. They have a much lower disposable income amount as well. The fact you think there is less stress about money in a Scandinavian country is laughable.

I am looking at this from my specific perspective. I doubt I would have any more debt if I lived there vs. here.

Just a simple fact that US does not have a paid maternity leave is all that one has to know whether society cares about its people. US prospered because it was able to import a lot of smart people and outsource the cost of raising them. That seems to be ending and YOLO is definitely to a way to respalmostond to that. I equate YOLO to someone tailgating, basically not thinking ahead and not understanding statistics.

Then you wouldn’t have any net worth. There is a wealth tax on nonreal estate assets and most families have the majority of their net worth tied up in real estate. It’s how you get ahead and you have to borrow to do it. So unless you’re going to live in housing way smaller and not as nice as here, you absolutely would have a lot more debt. Most people in Scandinavia have giant mortgages.

PP is correct. Household debt to income is much higher in Scandinavia than it is in the US. In the U.S. and Japan, debt is about 100% of income. In Denmark, it is almost three times income. Norway almost two and half times, and Sweden nearly two times.

https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Yep. I think the best strategy is to move to a better country where you don’t have to work like a dog in order to not be homeless and to even have a shot at retirement. God forbid you have a big health issue because then you get to not retire and forget enjoying anything in life because of the constant stress.

This.

Sweden's homeless rate is more than double that of the U.S. Finland's rate is just a bit lower than ours. Norway's rate is less than half ours, but it also has a small population with oil riches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

+1. People are so misinformed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Yep. I think the best strategy is to move to a better country where you don’t have to work like a dog in order to not be homeless and to even have a shot at retirement. God forbid you have a big health issue because then you get to not retire and forget enjoying anything in life because of the constant stress.

This.

Sweden's homeless rate is more than double that of the U.S. Finland's rate is just a bit lower than ours. Norway's rate is less than half ours, but it also has a small population with oil riches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Yep. I think the best strategy is to move to a better country where you don’t have to work like a dog in order to not be homeless and to even have a shot at retirement. God forbid you have a big health issue because then you get to not retire and forget enjoying anything in life because of the constant stress.

This.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Do you know that Scandinavians have some of the highest personal debt amounts in the entire world? They are debt slaves. They also have way less freedom to retire early or do anything remotely different from their peers. You do what the system tells you to do. The way the tax system works you have to take it as large of a mortgage as you can possibly obtain. It’s hardly a perfect place since almost all women have to work to pay for their huge mortgage. They have a much lower disposable income amount as well. The fact you think there is less stress about money in a Scandinavian country is laughable.

I am looking at this from my specific perspective. I doubt I would have any more debt if I lived there vs. here.

Just a simple fact that US does not have a paid maternity leave is all that one has to know whether society cares about its people. US prospered because it was able to import a lot of smart people and outsource the cost of raising them. That seems to be ending and YOLO is definitely to a way to respond to that. I equate YOLO to someone tailgating, basically not thinking ahead and not understanding statistics.

Then you wouldn’t have any net worth. There is a wealth tax on nonreal estate assets and most families have the majority of their net worth tied up in real estate. It’s how you get ahead and you have to borrow to do it. So unless you’re going to live in housing way smaller and not as nice as here, you absolutely would have a lot more debt. Most people in Scandinavia have giant mortgages.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Do you know that Scandinavians have some of the highest personal debt amounts in the entire world? They are debt slaves. They also have way less freedom to retire early or do anything remotely different from their peers. You do what the system tells you to do. The way the tax system works you have to take it as large of a mortgage as you can possibly obtain. It’s hardly a perfect place since almost all women have to work to pay for their huge mortgage. They have a much lower disposable income amount as well. The fact you think there is less stress about money in a Scandinavian country is laughable.

I am looking at this from my specific perspective. I doubt I would have any more debt if I lived there vs. here.

Just a simple fact that US does not have a paid maternity leave is all that one has to know whether society cares about its people. US prospered because it was able to import a lot of smart people and outsource the cost of raising them. That seems to be ending and YOLO is definitely to a way to respond to that. I equate YOLO to someone tailgating, basically not thinking ahead and not understanding statistics.

The US doesn’t have paid leave because most people don’t want it. They support the idea of paid leave but do they want the government controlling it? Nope. I actually personally support paid leave but I understand the benefit of not having it. America didn’t become the country it is by people not going to work. European countries have benefits like paid leave because the US is for the most part their military. In many countries women have been negatively impacted in unexpected ways by paid leave and being out of the workforce for years. Also, the cost of living is still MUCH MUCH lower than in European countries with paid leave. Many people have no idea how much more expensive it is to pay for basic housing, food and clothing in European countries. On top of the taxes. It requires two incomes.

My grandfather was a Park Ranger and lived very frugally. He was planning on taking my grandmother on a trip to Europe after he retired. When he was at his last assignment they were in a car accident and neither survived. My mom was 23 years old at the time. She took her meager inheritance and traveled in Europe for 9 months. She’s always instilled in me that YOLO and tomorrow is not a guarantee. I try to balance what I can. Saving for retirement while also living my best life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Do you know that Scandinavians have some of the highest personal debt amounts in the entire world? They are debt slaves. They also have way less freedom to retire early or do anything remotely different from their peers. You do what the system tells you to do. The way the tax system works you have to take it as large of a mortgage as you can possibly obtain. It’s hardly a perfect place since almost all women have to work to pay for their huge mortgage. They have a much lower disposable income amount as well. The fact you think there is less stress about money in a Scandinavian country is laughable.

I am looking at this from my specific perspective. I doubt I would have any more debt if I lived there vs. here.

Just a simple fact that US does not have a paid maternity leave is all that one has to know whether society cares about its people. US prospered because it was able to import a lot of smart people and outsource the cost of raising them. That seems to be ending and YOLO is definitely to a way to respond to that. I equate YOLO to someone tailgating, basically not thinking ahead and not understanding statistics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like having enough money that i do not need to worry about being able to afford important things. I would YOLO if I lived in Scandinavia or some other civilized country. U feel that USA is pretty brutal to its poorer citizens so I save enough to be able to live relatively worry free here. Money removes a lot of stress and unless one is born rich being frugal is the most straightforward way of generating some safety buffer.

Do you know that Scandinavians have some of the highest personal debt amounts in the entire world? They are debt slaves. They also have way less freedom to retire early or do anything remotely different from their peers. You do what the system tells you to do. The way the tax system works you have to take it as large of a mortgage as you can possibly obtain. It’s hardly a perfect place since almost all women have to work to pay for their huge mortgage. They have a much lower disposable income amount as well. The fact you think there is less stress about money in a Scandinavian country is laughable.

The government forces people to take a mortgage and to do so in an amount they can barely afford? That doesn’t make any sense.

I think PP is confused. You are not required to buy or take a loan in a certain amount. Sweden has income requirements for loans like we do here. Real estate is expensive there, that’s all. Also, I believe women work there because the country makes it easy to do so—women want to work. The maternity leave and paternity leave policies make having a balanced life easier. Yes, taxes are brutal, but you won’t lose your home because you get cancer. I have a German friend whose parents can use their money for what they want because their retirement is taken care of. Can you even imagine? I know they are taxed at a higher rate, but the rate of elderly poverty in this country precisely because retirement is so impossible to save for is disturbing.

I lived there for some time and yes, very few women don't return to work, but the small sliver of wealthy people in the country, do SAH . We did have to go Germany to get our child a simple T&A. He was having chronic strep throat and was on a waitlist for 8 months before we could get him surgery. Flew over to Germany and paid 4k out of pocket to get it done. The waits times for treatment were unacceptable to my American expectations.