Anonymous wrote:Read for yourself and decide

https://slate.com/technology/2006/05/taking-the-sat-untimed.html

The data showing additional time is interesting -- but the rest of the article is woefully outdated, dating from 2006!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DDs experience was exactly opposite. She’s had verified testing and accommodations since age 8. And lengthy neuropsych testing and reports every 3 years. She was denied extra time on the ACT. Our appeals were denied. (My full time day job is writing appellate briefs — usually successfully.) She’s since graduated college (where she chose not to continue accommodations) and is well employed. So I’d love to know how so many others were able to get accommodations.

PP, I think your experience is interesting and I'd be interested in knowing, too, if others have found this to be the case.

My small POV: My fifth grader recently took a standardized test (independent school) for the first time. DC was flabbergasted that so many classmates (by observation, about 50%) were "put in a special room and given more time than everyone else." Not understanding this at all, my DC found this "very unfair." This leads me to wonder if it is easier to get accommodations for younger kids, but by the time they reach high school/ college prep age, they are not given the same consideration?

We had accommodations that we didn't even realize were in the IEP and it was never followed. My child commented constantly about why they got extra time and help when his needs were greater and no one would help or give him extra time. We eventually just gave up the IEP as it was a waste of time arguing in less we hired an advocate. Some kids really need it and don't get it, others have parents gaming the system. Most of us have documentation going back from when kids are 1-2-3 of the SN/concerns and are still refused help.

Wow, what school was that?

MCPS

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is rampant at private schools - the wealthier the population, the higher the % of accommodations. I have friends whose kids got accommodations in 10th grade - got diagnosis, handed to school, school had to accommodated, the school filed w College Board.

It is not uncommon for kids who are twice exceptional to not get diagnosed until the beginning of high school when the pace of the classwork really picks up, and lecture style classes are more common.

My kids have been in both private and public school -- far more diagnoses in public school because of superior support systems.

My friend in private got it for her kid - audio processing. Er..I can see it when in class, but u don’t listen to anything at an SAT or ACT test. But kid got double time for SAT and SAT subject tests.

If you get it for an SAT subject test you get it on the SAT. If it is irrelevant to the test, then it doesn't matter. My kid got a keyboard accommodation from the SAT in the even he decided to do the SAT writing test, so it wasn't obviously used. But the same accommodations sheet covered his AP exams, where it was relevant and used.

There are music SAT2 tests with a listening component, as well as foreign language test with a listening / translating component.

Kid wasn’t doing any SATs w listening component - just Math I, math 2, chemistry and physics

The College Board approves accommodations well in advance of when the student registers for specific tests. So they issue blanket accommodations that may or may not be relevant when the test is administered.

Read for yourself and decide

https://slate.com/technology/2006/05/taking-the-sat-untimed.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is rampant at private schools - the wealthier the population, the higher the % of accommodations. I have friends whose kids got accommodations in 10th grade - got diagnosis, handed to school, school had to accommodated, the school filed w College Board.

It is not uncommon for kids who are twice exceptional to not get diagnosed until the beginning of high school when the pace of the classwork really picks up, and lecture style classes are more common.

My kids have been in both private and public school -- far more diagnoses in public school because of superior support systems.

My friend in private got it for her kid - audio processing. Er..I can see it when in class, but u don’t listen to anything at an SAT or ACT test. But kid got double time for SAT and SAT subject tests.

If you get it for an SAT subject test you get it on the SAT. If it is irrelevant to the test, then it doesn't matter. My kid got a keyboard accommodation from the SAT in the even he decided to do the SAT writing test, so it wasn't obviously used. But the same accommodations sheet covered his AP exams, where it was relevant and used.

There are music SAT2 tests with a listening component, as well as foreign language test with a listening / translating component.

Kid wasn’t doing any SATs w listening component - just Math I, math 2, chemistry and physics

Why do we have accommodations at all, except in severe cases? I understand if you're blind and need the test read to you, or you have a phsyical disability and can't easily fill in the circles on the sheet -- then extra time seems warranted.

But isn't the goal of the test to measure against other students? Why not have the same testing environment for all then? I realize some will score poorer than others, but isn't that exactly what it's trying to measure?

As an employer, if an aptitude test reflects your job duties, then it's useful to know how much you can accomplish within a fixed amount of time, because that's part of the job.

Would you make a kid who wears glasses take them off to take the test? Other kids are not allowed to have magnifiers so why let the kid with glasses wear them?

The accommodations level the playing field. I have one severe ADD kid and one non-ADD kid. The ADD kid will have to re-read the question over and over again because she forgot what she just read or will become hyper focused on a cough or something else. The non-ADD kid doesn't notice someone coughing and has normal ability to regulate her concentration. ADD is the inability to regulate focus it actually doesn't mean that they can never focus they just have less control on what they focus on.

The ADD kid is a great student with accommodations and excels in subjects where she hyper focuses. She is amazing at math and science. She is a good writer but it takes her a long time. She won't be applying to be an English lit major and colleges see her past IEPs in her record.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DDs experience was exactly opposite. She’s had verified testing and accommodations since age 8. And lengthy neuropsych testing and reports every 3 years. She was denied extra time on the ACT. Our appeals were denied. (My full time day job is writing appellate briefs — usually successfully.) She’s since graduated college (where she chose not to continue accommodations) and is well employed. So I’d love to know how so many others were able to get accommodations.

PP, I think your experience is interesting and I'd be interested in knowing, too, if others have found this to be the case.

My small POV: My fifth grader recently took a standardized test (independent school) for the first time. DC was flabbergasted that so many classmates (by observation, about 50%) were "put in a special room and given more time than everyone else." Not understanding this at all, my DC found this "very unfair." This leads me to wonder if it is easier to get accommodations for younger kids, but by the time they reach high school/ college prep age, they are not given the same consideration?

We had accommodations that we didn't even realize were in the IEP and it was never followed. My child commented constantly about why they got extra time and help when his needs were greater and no one would help or give him extra time. We eventually just gave up the IEP as it was a waste of time arguing in less we hired an advocate. Some kids really need it and don't get it, others have parents gaming the system. Most of us have documentation going back from when kids are 1-2-3 of the SN/concerns and are still refused help.

Wow, what school was that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DDs experience was exactly opposite. She’s had verified testing and accommodations since age 8. And lengthy neuropsych testing and reports every 3 years. She was denied extra time on the ACT. Our appeals were denied. (My full time day job is writing appellate briefs — usually successfully.) She’s since graduated college (where she chose not to continue accommodations) and is well employed. So I’d love to know how so many others were able to get accommodations.

PP, I think your experience is interesting and I'd be interested in knowing, too, if others have found this to be the case.

My small POV: My fifth grader recently took a standardized test (independent school) for the first time. DC was flabbergasted that so many classmates (by observation, about 50%) were "put in a special room and given more time than everyone else." Not understanding this at all, my DC found this "very unfair." This leads me to wonder if it is easier to get accommodations for younger kids, but by the time they reach high school/ college prep age, they are not given the same consideration?

We had accommodations that we didn't even realize were in the IEP and it was never followed. My child commented constantly about why they got extra time and help when his needs were greater and no one would help or give him extra time. We eventually just gave up the IEP as it was a waste of time arguing in less we hired an advocate. Some kids really need it and don't get it, others have parents gaming the system. Most of us have documentation going back from when kids are 1-2-3 of the SN/concerns and are still refused help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is rampant at private schools - the wealthier the population, the higher the % of accommodations. I have friends whose kids got accommodations in 10th grade - got diagnosis, handed to school, school had to accommodated, the school filed w College Board.

I know there’s abuse but just another perspective. DD was eligible for accommodations since age 7 but she was smart enough to do well in elementary and we didn’t pursue accommodations (but had private reading tutor to help keep her on track). Things fell apart in middle school. Then she started getting anxious and depressed because she felt dumb. She was tested again and the Stixrud doc nearly yelled at us for not taking care of her better and sooner. So accommodations kicked in in 10th grade. We weren’t gaming anything.

This was our situation, too. Kids who are smart gut it out and make excellent grades until they reach a point where they just can't keep up any more. For many, that's when anxiety and depression kick in and parents and/or teachers realize that supports are needed. First half of high school was when that happened with our kid. I was fully aware that it looked like we were gaming the system, but DC had legitimate deficiencies (present all along) that testing bore out. I, too, felt badly that we had not sought accommodations and support sooner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do we have accommodations at all, except in severe cases? I understand if you're blind and need the test read to you, or you have a phsyical disability and can't easily fill in the circles on the sheet -- then extra time seems warranted.

But isn't the goal of the test to measure against other students? Why not have the same testing environment for all then? I realize some will score poorer than others, but isn't that exactly what it's trying to measure?

As an employer, if an aptitude test reflects your job duties, then it's useful to know how much you can accomplish within a fixed amount of time, because that's part of the job.

Because speed, for example, isn't necessarily an indicator that you can't do well in college. You will need to work harder if you have a disability to master the content, but you should not be deprived of the opportunity because of a discriminatory bar to entry.

As for work, time extensions do not apply. Large scale computer monitors, accessible buildings and so forth do. Most students with disabilities will find jobs that are compatible with theri disability.

My son with significant fine motor challenges has the aptitude and academic record to succeed as a biologist or attorney. He is absolutely NOT capable of being a surgeon (or a chef) and would receive no accommodation to let him enter that specialty.

Sorry to break it to you, but biological bench work requires fantastic fine motor skills. Data science--sure, you could do that. But try manipulating tiny organisms, fine-point needles, or radioactive material without fine motor skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do we have accommodations at all, except in severe cases? I understand if you're blind and need the test read to you, or you have a phsyical disability and can't easily fill in the circles on the sheet -- then extra time seems warranted.

But isn't the goal of the test to measure against other students? Why not have the same testing environment for all then? I realize some will score poorer than others, but isn't that exactly what it's trying to measure?

As an employer, if an aptitude test reflects your job duties, then it's useful to know how much you can accomplish within a fixed amount of time, because that's part of the job.

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I agree with you. Unfortunately, given the heavy weight of standardized tests & the ability to prep & 'game'--everyone is looking for an advantage. The tests are timed for a reason.

When I was a TA (Ivy), I was floored at the number of premed students who received extra time to take tests. I have no idea how many went on to become doctors, but if you can't process a college-level exam in a timely fashion, are you prepared to make rapid decisions with life & death consequences?

Yes because my dermatologist really needs to make life and death decisions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is rampant at private schools - the wealthier the population, the higher the % of accommodations. I have friends whose kids got accommodations in 10th grade - got diagnosis, handed to school, school had to accommodated, the school filed w College Board.

I know there’s abuse but just another perspective. DD was eligible for accommodations since age 7 but she was smart enough to do well in elementary and we didn’t pursue accommodations (but had private reading tutor to help keep her on track). Things fell apart in middle school. Then she started getting anxious and depressed because she felt dumb. She was tested again and the Stixrud doc nearly yelled at us for not taking care of her better and sooner. So accommodations kicked in in 10th grade. We weren’t gaming anything.

Just remember that this is Stixrud's business. He's a hammer, so of course they see families as nails.

My DC received accommodations from the College Board four years ago. It wasn't a "trick" or a scam. He has a rather profound form of dyslexia and dysgraphia. He was awarded 50% more time and a reader and a scribe. FWIW, it takes longer to take a test with a reader and a scribe as all of the information has to go through two brains - both the question and the answer.

This story is really disturbing and scary because it will probably make students like my son have a harder getting the accommodations they need.

I tis the same way with people with service animals getting on airplanes. People have abused that and now hey are changing rules making it harder to take on a service animal. The people that really need it have to jump through more and more hoops.

Anonymous wrote:Why do we have accommodations at all, except in severe cases? I understand if you're blind and need the test read to you, or you have a phsyical disability and can't easily fill in the circles on the sheet -- then extra time seems warranted.

But isn't the goal of the test to measure against other students? Why not have the same testing environment for all then? I realize some will score poorer than others, but isn't that exactly what it's trying to measure?

As an employer, if an aptitude test reflects your job duties, then it's useful to know how much you can accomplish within a fixed amount of time, because that's part of the job.

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I agree with you. Unfortunately, given the heavy weight of standardized tests & the ability to prep & 'game'--everyone is looking for an advantage. The tests are timed for a reason.

When I was a TA (Ivy), I was floored at the number of premed students who received extra time to take tests. I have no idea how many went on to become doctors, but if you can't process a college-level exam in a timely fashion, are you prepared to make rapid decisions with life & death consequences?