Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 15:55     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
What does it mean to challenge high achievers? This is such a common thing that parents say, but then they also expect that their high achiever kids will get straight As. So is the request to challenge with course material that gets really smart kids Bs and Cs, and then grade on a curve?

I think that part of being challenged is not necessarily tackling the most complex material or racing through it as fast as possible, but learning in an environment where there are multiple perspectives and figuring out how to find a truth within it - I mean, that's what history and ELA is about. But it does require strong teaching to get there.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 15:21     Subject: Re:Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:The problem is that it sounds good in theory but is not working well in practice. Higher achieving kids are bored while kids who are behind are still disengaged. I think the principal means well but there is only so much that can be done with ineffective assistant principals and a mixed bag of teachers


Are you sitting in on these classes every day? There are several hundred 9th graders at Wilson.

Do you have data to back up your assertion, or are you relying on your child and his or her friends' anecdotes?
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 15:06     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.


So all common sense about creating tiered classes and really pushing the highest achievers doesn’t matter as long as each class is diverse. I’m genuinely curious about parents who putt diversity over all other academic pursuits for their kids.


The idea from my point of view is that intelligent children can be born into any circumstance (any SES, any race, etc.). If, by the time kids reach high school, the vast majority of advanced courses are populated by white children, something has gone wrong. There’s no other explanation for it. Remedy that by giving all the kids a challenging curriculum. As I understand it, the kids who then do well continue in AP. If it’s executed badly and instruction is only given at the level of the lowest-performing kids, no, it won’t work. But if all of them are challenged, just the presence of children who need to catch up is not going to affect how well the high-achievers do.


But that’s the problem. The assumption is always high SES will “do well” or “be fine” anywhere. Coasting to an A in a dumbed down class is not good enough for me as parent. Who cares about an A is the kid did t have to actually be challenged to earn it?
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 14:59     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So the principal is closing the achievement gap by ensuring the top students hit the ceiling as fast as possible. If thebonlybdiscussion is on bringing up the slow kids what’s the point of honors? At this stage kids can either do the work or not. Demand more parents or stop supporting the achool.


OP here - my question was how has this worked? I think it would be helpful to consider that answer before assuming the worst and “demanding more”.


My oldest is at Deal but I heard the Principal on NPR with other academics that research points to all the kids benefitting from this model. The high achievers needs are met while kids at the lower end learn more with support (initially) and develop much better confidence and self esteem. It is problematic that so few minorities end up in advanced classes.


The bolded part sounds like a bunch of nonsense.


dp: I, too, am skeptical about this. Some people seem to think that “meeting the needs” of high achievers is that they end up with above-average grades, not that they are actually hiven any attention and are truly challenged.


Well I am sure there are studies out there to support this belief. I know DCUM is all about anecdotal information but feel free to look at online studies published in scholarly journals. TBH, I was in a G&T program and took all AP classes in HS growing up and school didn't get challenging or interesting until college.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 14:42     Subject: Re:Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
The problem is that it sounds good in theory but is not working well in practice. Higher achieving kids are bored while kids who are behind are still disengaged. I think the principal means well but there is only so much that can be done with ineffective assistant principals and a mixed bag of teachers
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 14:38     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.


So all common sense about creating tiered classes and really pushing the highest achievers doesn’t matter as long as each class is diverse. I’m genuinely curious about parents who putt diversity over all other academic pursuits for their kids.


The idea from my point of view is that intelligent children can be born into any circumstance (any SES, any race, etc.). If, by the time kids reach high school, the vast majority of advanced courses are populated by white children, something has gone wrong. There’s no other explanation for it. Remedy that by giving all the kids a challenging curriculum. As I understand it, the kids who then do well continue in AP. If it’s executed badly and instruction is only given at the level of the lowest-performing kids, no, it won’t work. But if all of them are challenged, just the presence of children who need to catch up is not going to affect how well the high-achievers do.


I agree that honors for all would be great if it was done well. At Wilson, the problem is that few things are done well, or consistently well.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 14:34     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.


So all common sense about creating tiered classes and really pushing the highest achievers doesn’t matter as long as each class is diverse. I’m genuinely curious about parents who putt diversity over all other academic pursuits for their kids.


Nobody does it for their own kids, it's for other people's kids.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 13:58     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Even before it was 'honors for all' the rap on 9th grade at Wilson was that it was still really easy, even for those on the honors track.

Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 13:53     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.


So all common sense about creating tiered classes and really pushing the highest achievers doesn’t matter as long as each class is diverse. I’m genuinely curious about parents who putt diversity over all other academic pursuits for their kids.


The idea from my point of view is that intelligent children can be born into any circumstance (any SES, any race, etc.). If, by the time kids reach high school, the vast majority of advanced courses are populated by white children, something has gone wrong. There’s no other explanation for it. Remedy that by giving all the kids a challenging curriculum. As I understand it, the kids who then do well continue in AP. If it’s executed badly and instruction is only given at the level of the lowest-performing kids, no, it won’t work. But if all of them are challenged, just the presence of children who need to catch up is not going to affect how well the high-achievers do.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 13:43     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.


So all common sense about creating tiered classes and really pushing the highest achievers doesn’t matter as long as each class is diverse. I’m genuinely curious about parents who putt diversity over all other academic pursuits for their kids.


I've already posted but I think it's important to understand that this approach is phased out.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 13:42     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.


As a black parent of a reasonably bright elementary kid who tends to coast if others around her are coasting, I'm not sure I like the model. We currently have her in private, but later on may consider returning to DCPS (IB for Deal/Wilson). We want a good amount of challenge, and it doesn't sound like this model ensures it.


I have a Wilson 10th grader. I'm not a huge fan of the model but can intellectually understand what they're trying to do. I will say that the model is phased out as the kids progress through high school. Right now, my DD only has two "honors for all" classes (chem and English). They are undeniably easy for her. However, she also has honors precalc, AP world history, biomed and con law to keep her occupied. Next year, she will transition to all APs in her core subjects.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 13:32     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.


As a black parent of a reasonably bright elementary kid who tends to coast if others around her are coasting, I'm not sure I like the model. We currently have her in private, but later on may consider returning to DCPS (IB for Deal/Wilson). We want a good amount of challenge, and it doesn't sound like this model ensures it.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 13:29     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.


So all common sense about creating tiered classes and really pushing the highest achievers doesn’t matter as long as each class is diverse. I’m genuinely curious about parents who putt diversity over all other academic pursuits for their kids.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 12:48     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
It sounds like an excellent model and a common sense, simple and effective approach to the a racial inequity that should not exist in the first place. I hope they continue it.
Anonymous
Post 03/05/2019 12:38     Subject: Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So the principal is closing the achievement gap by ensuring the top students hit the ceiling as fast as possible. If thebonlybdiscussion is on bringing up the slow kids what’s the point of honors? At this stage kids can either do the work or not. Demand more parents or stop supporting the achool.


OP here - my question was how has this worked? I think it would be helpful to consider that answer before assuming the worst and “demanding more”.


My oldest is at Deal but I heard the Principal on NPR with other academics that research points to all the kids benefitting from this model. The high achievers needs are met while kids at the lower end learn more with support (initially) and develop much better confidence and self esteem. It is problematic that so few minorities end up in advanced classes.


The bolded part sounds like a bunch of nonsense.


dp: I, too, am skeptical about this. Some people seem to think that “meeting the needs” of high achievers is that they end up with above-average grades, not that they are actually hiven any attention and are truly challenged.