Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 23:30     Subject: s/o IQ and college
The “college for everyone” mentality has done a real disservice to the kids who are below average and struggle in school. We don’t have enough vocational programming. We don’t have enough practical courses (household accounting, real consumer education, learning about Dina coal management, credit, etc etc).
If you’re in Montgomery County, you can blame Jerry Weast and his “7 keys for college readiness” and the pressure placed on teachers and admins to make all kids “look” college ready, even if they aren’t.
Where are many of these kids now who graduated but didn’t go to college? Working retail if they are lucky.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 22:36     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's what SATs are for. A first grader may have other issues that haven't allowed him to fully develop to his full IQ potential yet.


Overwhelming majority of colleges admit anyone with a pulse. Only the top 100 or so have any sort of admissions standards. And new trend amongst state schools and crummy privates is to remove all math and science requirements because so many of the dummies they admit can't earn even a 2.0 in college algebra and chemistry. Days of a bachelors degree teasing out IQ are long gone.


What a disgusting comment.


+1

I would much rather my kid end up a low IQ student who can’t “even earn a 2.0” without removing math and science requirements than a bitchy person like you — even if he or she is a bitchy person like you who attends Stanford, takes an incredibly difficult course load, & graduates with a 4.0.


Hope you have lotsa room in your basement
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 21:35     Subject: s/o IQ and college
Anonymous wrote:My kid has an IQ of 95, which is low average. He gets straight As in school. Please do not judge people on IQ. Humans are complex creatures.


What grade? This won’t last into high school
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 21:23     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
My hubby was test w/ below average IQ. He’s all AA, so twofer on the racist low expectations bs Americans love to impose. He’s got a PhD in economics at a top school and works in a senior position at the world bank. So there’s that. Let’s spend less time trying to categorize or to predict kids futures at 7 and more time improving education and teaching.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 21:09     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
My DD had testing that showed her IQ to be in the high eighties. It scares me that I don’t have a good handle on what will and will not be possible for her in the future. I read posts here about how anyone can get A’s in elementary school these days. Well, my kid cannot. I want to encourage her to aim high but I also know that I have to be realistic. No one at the school helps with this at all.

I’m the PP who said upthread that the post about “dummies” was disgusting. I stand by that comment. I have no interest in anything you say once you spit out ugly pejorative. Grow up.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 20:52     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So many things to unpack in this post.

IQ tests on first graders are notoriously unreliable. They are particularly unreliable for children who have disabilities, live in poverty, or are being educated in a language that isn't their dominant language. I'd be very hesitant to make any kind of prediction about a child's future based on an IQ test at that age. In fact, I know more than child who tested quite low (IQ score below 80) who now attends an Ivy League school.

The second thing I'd encourage you to do is to broaden your understanding of what "college" is. I think that sometimes if someone did college the traditional way, where they chose a college with a national reputation, lived in campus, took a full course load of credit bearing for 4 straight years, and earned a bachelor's degree, they can think that that's what college is. But college can look many different ways. It can include classes that lead to a certificate and a career as a child care provider, or a carpenter, or a dog groomer. It can include people taking one or two classes at a time, and getting a degree in 10 years, instead of 2. It can include people with a variety of disabilities taking classes for credit with accommodations (e.g. braille textbooks), or support (e.g. a tutor), or non credit classes with modifications (e.g. the students referenced above with Down syndrome and other types of intellectual disabilities). All of these people are college students too. Given the wide variety of ways that there are to attend college, college really can be a choice for everyone.

The last thing to remember is that the goal isn't that every kid goes to college, it's that every kid graduates in a position to be able to make that choice for themselves. What does that mean? It means that their reading, writing and math skills are as strong as they can be. It means that they have experience exploring challenging content, taking positions, and defending them with evidence. It means that they know about academic honesty. It also means that they've learned to manage a complicated schedule and workload, and to interact with a variety of adults. Interestingly, even if a kid doesn't choose to go to college, or to go right to college, these skills will serve them well.



In the world of education, the goal does seem to be that outside of those with severe special needs, every kid go to college. That is what the OP is lamenting about.


I'm the PP, and also a teacher.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 20:51     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
Anonymous wrote:The average IQ for college graduates is 105-110. You need to be slightly brighter than average


If 105 is the average, then there are many people with IQ's under 105 who attend and graduate from college.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 20:46     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
The average IQ for college graduates is 105-110. You need to be slightly brighter than average
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 19:14     Subject: s/o IQ and college
Anonymous wrote:Just curious about this. Someone mentioned on another thread that people need a minimum IQ for college. If you agree, what would it be? I mentioned that I teach first grade and we have students with low IQs yet it is drilled into us that everyone must be college ready. How realistic is this?


Anyone who thinks everyone has to be college ready should be challenged on that premise. It’s ridiculous on the face of it.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 14:19     Subject: s/o IQ and college
One son has a very high IQ (149) - lasted one semester in college. 2nd son lower IQ (99) - happy as a lark doing great.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 09:17     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s the thing. They have already been tested and while they have low IQs, they don’t qualify for an IEP. What will their future be?


Plumbers, electricians, carpenters who will out earn the college educated particularly teachers.




Why does everyone assume that these jobs can be performed with a low iq? Yes, the education involved in getting those jobs might be attainable for those with low iq. But actually doing the job well enough to be employable actually does take quite a bit of smarts. Many blue collar jobs that DCUM seems to think anyone can do, take just as much smarts if not more than some more white collar jobs. I wouldn't assume that the kids with low iqs will become plumbers or electricians (not sure about carpenters). And if they did become them, they very well might not be able to keep their jobs.


I have several older relatives (now in their 70s) who fit the profile - a terrible student in school, a successful electrician/metalworker/etc later. Looking back, I think there must have been some undiagnosed learning disability. Otherwise, I don’t think a low IQ can explain e.g. my uncle who couldn’t put two sentences together in school and never enjoyed reading books, but give him a blueprint, and he can visualize it instantly.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 09:02     Subject: s/o IQ and college
My DS falls into this segment of the population. He is borderline intellectually disabled. We are worried about his ability to hold a job when he grows up (13 now).
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 08:51     Subject: s/o IQ and college
OP, I think focusing on the IQ score is a mistake for the reasons outlined.

But yes, I agree with you about not everyone being able to go to college, or more importantly, to benefit from it. We do our kids a disservice when we promote that future to those it fits poorly.

However, you teach first graders. No one can possibly know who is excellent and who is not on theses little babies.
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 08:31     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's what SATs are for. A first grader may have other issues that haven't allowed him to fully develop to his full IQ potential yet.


Overwhelming majority of colleges admit anyone with a pulse. Only the top 100 or so have any sort of admissions standards. And new trend amongst state schools and crummy privates is to remove all math and science requirements because so many of the dummies they admit can't earn even a 2.0 in college algebra and chemistry. Days of a bachelors degree teasing out IQ are long gone.


What a disgusting comment.


+1

I would much rather my kid end up a low IQ student who can’t “even earn a 2.0” without removing math and science requirements than a bitchy person like you — even if he or she is a bitchy person like you who attends Stanford, takes an incredibly difficult course load, & graduates with a 4.0.


I don’t get what’s disgusting about it. Maybe there is an uncomfortable grain of truth here. A bachelors degree used to mean something. Now it is mostly an indicator that the individual came from a family that was able to pay for it. Great for your kid, but what about the thousands of other kids out there who are similarly situated in terms of cognitive abilities but lack the family resources to go to college?
Anonymous
Post 02/03/2019 06:28     Subject: Re:s/o IQ and college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That’s the thing. They have already been tested and while they have low IQs, they don’t qualify for an IEP. What will their future be?


Plumbers, electricians, carpenters who will out earn the college educated particularly teachers.




Why does everyone assume that these jobs can be performed with a low iq? Yes, the education involved in getting those jobs might be attainable for those with low iq. But actually doing the job well enough to be employable actually does take quite a bit of smarts. Many blue collar jobs that DCUM seems to think anyone can do, take just as much smarts if not more than some more white collar jobs. I wouldn't assume that the kids with low iqs will become plumbers or electricians (not sure about carpenters). And if they did become them, they very well might not be able to keep their jobs.