Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, what do all of you think nanny should have done after 12 year old tripped the sibling and obvious repeated reprimands from nanny prior to even that? All the behavioral issues justify that too? This is a serious situation and OP needs to take her child to therapy and have a professional opinion on how to handle so much aggression. OP, does your child have proper remorse for this action or not due to autism and other issues? If not, is he/she in behavioral therapy?

The book, the Explosive Child, is helpful. Kids will do the right thing if they can. OP’s kid cannot, right now. Piling punishment on a kid prone to rage will bring the rage on. Not back it down. Reflexive communication is better. Be his frontal lobe for him and help him walk through the issues. Bring him in on the problem solving. Walking your ADHD kid through this consistently will help him build his own skills of deflecting range and inappropriate impulsive violent behavior.

I’m all for comsequences for normal situations. But a tendency toward violence/rage is different and the kid has to be handled differently. Of course, therapy is a must.

Yes, if your child is violent, coddle them. Consequences are totally inappropriate.

Helping a child who has diagnoses that go hand in hand with missing social and communication skills and are accompanied by a lack of flexibility learn the skills he doesn’t naturally have is not coddling. It’s preparing him for the future.

It's coddling if you don't have consequences in addition to the help. No one is saying not to teach coping mechanisms, but you have to also have consequences that convey the unacceptable nature of his behavior.

There would be HUGE consequences if my HFA/ADHD/anxious kid did that.

We would focus first on apologizing to the nanny. Sincerely. That would probably entail a lecture every day for a week, to really drive the point home that this is not an act that we can just forgive and forget, but something that is very troubling and that is hard to put behind us. I would have the 12 year old verbalize in his own words why hitting someone is wrong, and why hitting someone smaller (his sibling) or in his employ or his parents' employ is an abuse of power. My 12 year old could understand such a conversation, so I think yours could too.

Then there would be an appointment with a psychologist and possibly a psychiatrist, depending on what the psychologist says. Perhaps your child is already on meds. Adolescence is when brain development and hormones don't always mix well, so meds that may have worked before may need to be changed or the dosage tweaked.

Then there would be sessions with a therapist, if we concluded with the professionals above that it was needed.

Puberty can be a really rough stretch for kids on the spectrum. They have a hard enough time with emotional regulation as it is and then you add surging hormones to the mix and they often feel and act out of control.

I used to work in a mental health unit for teens and we saw so many 12-14 year olds who had started to be aggressive around puberty.

It isn't that they don't know that hitting is wrong, they just don't have the skills to manage how they feel. They often have done so much work at building skills over the years and those skills fail them in the face of intense hormones. They can't just quickly learn a new skill set so it is almost like they are back at a preschooler or even non verbal stage where they are experiencing things they can't understand or communicate or control and they lash out.

Consequences are a natural part of expectation and pro social behavior but I do think if this seems to be part of puberty and less just a bad day, that it needs to be looked at bigger picture than this one incident. If not, the incident may happen again, or siblings will get hurt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, what do all of you think nanny should have done after 12 year old tripped the sibling and obvious repeated reprimands from nanny prior to even that? All the behavioral issues justify that too? This is a serious situation and OP needs to take her child to therapy and have a professional opinion on how to handle so much aggression. OP, does your child have proper remorse for this action or not due to autism and other issues? If not, is he/she in behavioral therapy?

The book, the Explosive Child, is helpful. Kids will do the right thing if they can. OP’s kid cannot, right now. Piling punishment on a kid prone to rage will bring the rage on. Not back it down. Reflexive communication is better. Be his frontal lobe for him and help him walk through the issues. Bring him in on the problem solving. Walking your ADHD kid through this consistently will help him build his own skills of deflecting range and inappropriate impulsive violent behavior.

I’m all for comsequences for normal situations. But a tendency toward violence/rage is different and the kid has to be handled differently. Of course, therapy is a must.

Yes, if your child is violent, coddle them. Consequences are totally inappropriate.

Helping a child who has diagnoses that go hand in hand with missing social and communication skills and are accompanied by a lack of flexibility learn the skills he doesn’t naturally have is not coddling. It’s preparing him for the future.

I would hope that once the nanny left your home for the day and had a chance to discuss among loved ones that she realizes that your home has become a dangerous place for her. One slap could be seen as a spur of the moment reaction but the second became an action of anger. Your problems with your child are now beyond a question of childcare management. I would not approach any discussion with yiur nanny with anything other than conciliatory offers. Help her find a new position and give her a severence. If she were my sister or daughter I would be counseling her to demand no less.

You need to focus on your son’s behavior and get expert advice on his violence. You cannot discount the hormonal flood he’s experiencing too (typical boy changes) on top of what must be a growing disconnect of freedoms other 12yos have if his time needs to be managed. And a 12yo can’t be expected to want to accommodate that much younger siblings interests day to day.

This was a huge thing OP. Be glad the nanny presumably wasn’t seriously injured but that sounds close to luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your nanny can dole out consequences like deciding to take electronics away for a week (which is over the top by the way)?

Besides being bored, did anything trigger your kid? Not condoning it, just trying to see if he was set up for failure esp if you say he's SN.

WHAT?

The kid slapped the nanny in the FACE! He’s 12 not 2. Banning electronics for a week is a super mild punishment.

Taking away electronics for a week was FOR pushing/tripping the younger sibling. NOT for slapping the nanny.

Taking away electronics for a week b/c you shoved around a sibling? That's a bit much. Maybe taking electronics away for the rest of the day - yes. For an entire week - no....not for mildlly shoving your sibling

First of all, no one knows if the shoving was “mild.” A large 12 y/o shoving/tripping a younger sibling could seriously hurt them. I’d expect that of 9 y/o, but not at 12. Secondly, actions should have consequences. This is why so many kids are out of control this days.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your nanny can dole out consequences like deciding to take electronics away for a week (which is over the top by the way)?

Besides being bored, did anything trigger your kid? Not condoning it, just trying to see if he was set up for failure esp if you say he's SN.

WHAT?

The kid slapped the nanny in the FACE! He’s 12 not 2. Banning electronics for a week is a super mild punishment.

Taking away electronics for a week was FOR pushing/tripping the younger sibling. NOT for slapping the nanny.

Taking away electronics for a week b/c you shoved around a sibling? That's a bit much. Maybe taking electronics away for the rest of the day - yes. For an entire week - no....not for mildlly shoving your sibling

How do we know the nanny isn’t planning on quitting? Just because she didn’t react and quit in the moment doesn’t mean that she’s nit taking time to think about her options and get her ducks in a row before giving notice. If I were OP I would be researching other options if nanny’s care is required for your work schedule and also definitely need to sit down with nanny and formally apologize. After you meet with the medical team, loop nanny in on recommendations if she decides to stay on.

I would rethink all the advice to let this nanny go. She could have pressed charges or otherwise made your life quite unpleasant around this incident. She is not the problem. Your child is. And to be honest, he's fast aging out of the child category. Teen boys who hit women multiple times go to juvie. And they should.

Life would be dramatically different. I wouldn’t use his SNs as a crutch. I have two children who are high functioning, but also on the spectrum and ADHD. One also has anxiety and depression. No way would I try to justify or excuse physical violence. I would talk to the nanny about what she wants. Offer two weeks of full pay and a perfect reference if she wants to quit. And my child would have a mattress, blankets, and clothing in his room. Maybe a book. And nothing else. No electronics. He would be in his room except for school and meals. I would allow him to gradually earn back his possessions and freedom.

My kids are older. We don’t play those games in our house. You hurt someone, life as you once knew it ends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so sorry this happened, OP.

I'm actually very surprised that your nanny didn't call you up and quit on the spot. But assuming she did not, and that you have already expressed your sincere apologies for this behavior, I'm thinking you're asking for advice on how to handle addressing this with your child and not the nanny.

I think it's time for a serious chat with your borderline special needs 12-year-old kiddo about how fortunate she is that the nanny didn't call the police and report her for assault. (Maybe I'm making a huge leap to assume the child is a girl...but my thinking here would be that there is almost no way the nanny would *not* call the cops if it had been a boy that hit her...twice!)

And then there needs to be serious consequences. Whatever your child adores, that is what she no longer has access to...for at least two weeks. Ipad, phone, sports? TV...whatever it is that she loves dearly, that is the price she needs to pay for the physical outburst. DC needs to understand that this cannot and will not happen again.

+1

I'm also surprised the nanny didn't quit right there.

Is your nanny very experienced with older special needs kids and went into this job knowing she was dealing with a potentially violent child who is big enough to be dangerous at age 12?

+1 the nanny is either a saint or desperate for a job. Holy Moly.

I agree that you should come to the SNs board. You are hitting some tough years with your ASD kiddo - at least they have been very difficult for us. Also the lack of structure and change of routine around the holidays is a terrible, terrible time for my kid. (My kid of similar age lost his/her mind yesterday. It’s been too long of a break.)

I don’t have specific advice on the hitting, but I do know that kids with anxiety/ADHD/inflexibility issues show lots of signs that things are going south before something major happens and that learning to read those signs and change course is really important for any caregiver/parent. Unfortunately kiddos with ASD don’t always communicate the way a typical kid would - more often it’s through behavior, so the conflicts with the sibling were perhaps the warning signs that something was going on that he/she couldn’t express well. You are much more likely to get buy in and flexibility when you stop then and try to discuss the situation.

Anonymous wrote:My son with a similar diagnosis has also turned violent. Same age. He’s in therapy for anger management now, on top of everything else. This should be in the special needs forum, honestly.

Slapping an adult, in the face, is over the top and completely unacceptable. I hope it’s a wake up call.

I agree. Besides the short term issue, you need to be looking at the bigger picture. If this is the behavior you are seeing at age12, you are likely to have a huge problem ahead of you. Get professional help and figure out how you are going to protect your younger child (who was also attacked) and the rest of you. Slapping the adult in control in the face is a huge statement, especially given that it was done a second time.

Fortunately at age 12, you’ve got a few years to get the help before your child hits adulthood. You may want to start looking at residential treatment centers including boot camp types of programs now because when you need it, you won’t have much time to research and find one you like. Also better to be proactive so that the legal system doesn’t step in. Good luck.

BTW, I’m a BTDT parent whose kid escalated. It can get really scary really fast from this point.

OP, is this the first person your child has hit or does he/she hit you as well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, what do all of you think nanny should have done after 12 year old tripped the sibling and obvious repeated reprimands from nanny prior to even that? All the behavioral issues justify that too? This is a serious situation and OP needs to take her child to therapy and have a professional opinion on how to handle so much aggression. OP, does your child have proper remorse for this action or not due to autism and other issues? If not, is he/she in behavioral therapy?

The book, the Explosive Child, is helpful. Kids will do the right thing if they can. OP’s kid cannot, right now. Piling punishment on a kid prone to rage will bring the rage on. Not back it down. Reflexive communication is better. Be his frontal lobe for him and help him walk through the issues. Bring him in on the problem solving. Walking your ADHD kid through this consistently will help him build his own skills of deflecting range and inappropriate impulsive violent behavior.

I’m all for comsequences for normal situations. But a tendency toward violence/rage is different and the kid has to be handled differently. Of course, therapy is a must.

Yes, if your child is violent, coddle them. Consequences are totally inappropriate.