Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The bolded part is true - but your definition of "gifted" is different from FCPS's. Read the first paragraph: " : eligible to students " who exhibit exceptional performance capability..." like a CogAt of 130 and GBRS of 11 or 12.

Not really. FCPS still wants to use multiple criteria to establish giftedness, as is considered best practice. They've just had a steadily lowering bar for what is considered "exceptional performance." Fifteen years ago, "exceptional performance" was the one kid in the classroom who was clearly above the rest. Now, "exceptional performance" seems to be any kid who is above grade level. AAP expanded from 5% to 20% over the last 15 years. Kids haven't become that much smarter. The bar has just drastically been lowered.

well I think 17% would be about right. And you may not be taking into account the demographic changes in this area over the last 15 years. There's been an explosion in highly educated parents and their very smart offspring.

There's also been an explosion in ESOL and FARMS kids. I've worked with a lot of AAP kids in math over the last few years, and many of them are above average and very motivated, but nothing special. They're not gifted. They're just regular smart kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The bolded part is true - but your definition of "gifted" is different from FCPS's. Read the first paragraph: " : eligible to students " who exhibit exceptional performance capability..." like a CogAt of 130 and GBRS of 11 or 12.

Not really. FCPS still wants to use multiple criteria to establish giftedness, as is considered best practice. They've just had a steadily lowering bar for what is considered "exceptional performance." Fifteen years ago, "exceptional performance" was the one kid in the classroom who was clearly above the rest. Now, "exceptional performance" seems to be any kid who is above grade level. AAP expanded from 5% to 20% over the last 15 years. Kids haven't become that much smarter. The bar has just drastically been lowered.

well I think 17% would be about right. And you may not be taking into account the demographic changes in this area over the last 15 years. There's been an explosion in highly educated parents and their very smart offspring.

Anonymous wrote:
The bolded part is true - but your definition of "gifted" is different from FCPS's. Read the first paragraph: " : eligible to students " who exhibit exceptional performance capability..." like a CogAt of 130 and GBRS of 11 or 12.

Not really. FCPS still wants to use multiple criteria to establish giftedness, as is considered best practice. They've just had a steadily lowering bar for what is considered "exceptional performance." Fifteen years ago, "exceptional performance" was the one kid in the classroom who was clearly above the rest. Now, "exceptional performance" seems to be any kid who is above grade level. AAP expanded from 5% to 20% over the last 15 years. Kids haven't become that much smarter. The bar has just drastically been lowered.

Anonymous wrote:Similarly, when are we going to discuss the average level of FCPS students not in AAP? My guess is that level of academic achievement has gone down significantly widening the gap from the most gifted to the least gifted student.

But is that a real effect from changing demographics, or an artificial one from changing the bar for AAP qualification? 15 years ago, when only 5% of the students were in AAP and 95% in gen ed, there were still many higher performers in gen ed, thus bringing up the average gen ed achievement. AAP likewise would have had higher achievement, since it was the top 5% and not the top 20%. Now, when 15% of the highest performing gen ed students are counted in the AAP totals and not the gen ed totals, of course gen ed achievement will decrease. What people are not wanting to acknowledge is that AAP average achievement has also decreased significantly. There's a huge difference between top 5% and top 20%, and the program has slowed down significantly to accommodate those extra 15% at the expense of the top 5%.

Similarly, when are we going to discuss the average level of FCPS students not in AAP? My guess is that level of academic achievement has gone down significantly widening the gap from the most gifted to the least gifted student.

I am so torn on this thread. I have 2 kid who both bombed the CogAT and NNAT. If you saw their scores you would all say I'm a horrible mom for "pushing them into AAP." But we appealed with WISCz from GMU. Both my kids' IQz were in top 99.9%. DS #1 was 147 and DS#2 was 150. They are gifted by all standards. No if ands or buts about it. But had we accepted FCPS tests, they'd be sitting in general ed. I appreciated the opportunity to parent refer and appeal. My kids needs are not met in AAP so we do a lot of additional courses and use Davidson Young Scholar resources, since they were both accepted as DYS. The assessment isn't perfect but I'm grateful for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, but AAP doesn't purport to be a "gifted" program. We've been through this hundreds of times on this forum; yes some persist in beating this dead horse.

YES.....IT......DOES.. Why are you persistently failing to understand this, despite the fact that so many people have explained it to you ad nauseam? The state of VA mandates that all school districts provide gifted programming for gifted students. AAP is what FCPS uses to meet the state gifted mandate. Thus, it is a "gifted" program. It's also right on the main FCPS AAP page: https://www.fcps.edu/index.php/academics/academic-overview/advanced-academic-programs

First paragraph on the main AAP page:
In Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS), gifted services are available to students who exhibit exceptional performance capability in academic, intellectual, and creative endeavors through Advanced Academic Programs (AAP). When a student is screened for AAP, the school division considers a student’s performance in the four core academic subject areas of language arts, mathematics, science, and social studies. FCPS also considers the diverse characteristics and behaviors associated with giftedness determined by multiple comprehensive assessments.

The bolded part is true - but your definition of "gifted" is different from FCPS's. Read the first paragraph: " : eligible to students " who exhibit exceptional performance capability..." like a CogAt of 130 and GBRS of 11 or 12.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, but AAP doesn't purport to be a "gifted" program. We've been through this hundreds of times on this forum; yes some persist in beating this dead horse.

YES.....IT......DOES.. Why are you persistently failing to understand this, despite the fact that so many people have explained it to you ad nauseam? The state of VA mandates that all school districts provide gifted programming for gifted students. AAP is what FCPS uses to meet the state gifted mandate. Thus, it is a "gifted" program. It's also right on the main FCPS AAP page: https://www.fcps.edu/index.php/academics/academic-overview/advanced-academic-programs

First paragraph on the main AAP page:
In Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS), gifted services are available to students who exhibit exceptional performance capability in academic, intellectual, and creative endeavors through Advanced Academic Programs (AAP). When a student is screened for AAP, the school division considers a student’s performance in the four core academic subject areas of language arts, mathematics, science, and social studies. FCPS also considers the diverse characteristics and behaviors associated with giftedness determined by multiple comprehensive assessments.

Older parent here.

My understanding was that it was renamed to AAP because parents in this area latched onto "gifted" and were pushing to get their kids into the program because they were "gifted" in areas like music, art or sports.

AAP was a way to emphasize that the program was for kids gifted academically, not gifted in soccer or piano.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Both my kids made it at 99th percentile. They had friends who seemed equally smart in class that didn’t score as high. I believe they would do equally well in AAP.

I don’t even know why I’m arguing this. My kids are smart and should be in AAP. They have smart parents.

AAP is so watered down that any reasonably bright child would do well. The problem is that the reasonably bright kids are so abundant that the pace ends up being too slow for the gifted kids. The debate boils down to whether you think AAP should be an accelerated program that ought to be accessible to any reasonably bright, motivated child, or whether you think AAP should be a much faster program accessed only by the kids whose needs truly can't be met otherwise.

I think it would be better if there was Gen Ed, Honors & AAP classes starting in 2nd grade. Use the test scores to decide who goes where and periodically reevaluate.

In 2nd grade?

Terrible idea.

Most parents have an inflated view of their kids intelligence in 2nd.

5th is when things get more realistic.

The stigma for the 3 kids whose parents did not place them in honors in 2nd would be horrible.

Anonymous wrote:
No, but AAP doesn't purport to be a "gifted" program. We've been through this hundreds of times on this forum; yes some persist in beating this dead horse.

YES.....IT......DOES.. Why are you persistently failing to understand this, despite the fact that so many people have explained it to you ad nauseam? The state of VA mandates that all school districts provide gifted programming for gifted students. AAP is what FCPS uses to meet the state gifted mandate. Thus, it is a "gifted" program. It's also right on the main FCPS AAP page: https://www.fcps.edu/index.php/academics/academic-overview/advanced-academic-programs

First paragraph on the main AAP page:
In Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS), gifted services are available to students who exhibit exceptional performance capability in academic, intellectual, and creative endeavors through Advanced Academic Programs (AAP). When a student is screened for AAP, the school division considers a student’s performance in the four core academic subject areas of language arts, mathematics, science, and social studies. FCPS also considers the diverse characteristics and behaviors associated with giftedness determined by multiple comprehensive assessments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As the parent of two "truly gifted" students, I disagree with you. I don't want my kids to skip grades.

And no one's forcing you to. If your kids are fine in AAP, hopefully with some individualized acceleration/differentiation from their teacher, great - I have just seen increased grumbling around here about the plebes tainting the "gifted" program, and FCPS doesn't have a gifted program - it's got AAP.

DP, but you're missing the point. PP's kids are NOT fine in AAP, and they're not receiving the individualized differentiation that they need. The AAP teacher is too busy dealing with the masses of plebes who are struggling with the AAP curriculum, or the AAP teacher is too busy watering down the curriculum so all of the plebes can be successful there, even when they don't belong there.

I have one kid in the highest groups in gen ed and one in AAP. The AAP has been watered down to the point that it looks almost the same as the gen ed highest groups. This also means that over half of the kids in AAP would be served perfectly fine in gen ed. The AAP teachers have been almost apologetic about the math, but they constantly are slowing down the curriculum because the bottom kids in AAP need more time to understand the concepts. I'm getting sick of the emails sent from the teacher to the entire class delaying scheduled exams for a week, because so many kids need more time or adding remediation classes for the kids who did poorly on the quizzes or tests. Meanwhile, my kid understood everything 3 weeks ago, aced all of the tests, and is almost crying over yet another week of boring repetition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nationally --- shouldn't these kids be in AAP? There are some general national standards as to what constitutes, "gifted". We live in a highly educated, high IQ area. No surprise, in the least, that so many kids "should" qualify.

Now, how to best serve them and everyone? I would like to see the total AAP Center numbers at no more than 2x the enrollment of TJ. Keep gifted kids at the base school - with differential instruction w/in the same classroom. Flexible grouping for instruction so all students can advance to the best of their ability/effort.

Nationally, 2% are gifted. It would be reasonable in the FCPS area for 4-5% to be gifted. If you want to include, bright, motivated, almost-gifted kids, the range could stretch up to 10%. There's no way 20% are gifted.

No, but AAP doesn't purport to be a "gifted" program. We've been through this hundreds of times on this forum; yes some persist in beating this dead horse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Both my kids made it at 99th percentile. They had friends who seemed equally smart in class that didn’t score as high. I believe they would do equally well in AAP.

I don’t even know why I’m arguing this. My kids are smart and should be in AAP. They have smart parents.

AAP is so watered down that any reasonably bright child would do well. The problem is that the reasonably bright kids are so abundant that the pace ends up being too slow for the gifted kids. The debate boils down to whether you think AAP should be an accelerated program that ought to be accessible to any reasonably bright, motivated child, or whether you think AAP should be a much faster program accessed only by the kids whose needs truly can't be met otherwise.

I think it would be better if there was Gen Ed, Honors & AAP classes starting in 2nd grade. Use the test scores to decide who goes where and periodically reevaluate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nationally --- shouldn't these kids be in AAP? There are some general national standards as to what constitutes, "gifted". We live in a highly educated, high IQ area. No surprise, in the least, that so many kids "should" qualify.

Now, how to best serve them and everyone? I would like to see the total AAP Center numbers at no more than 2x the enrollment of TJ. Keep gifted kids at the base school - with differential instruction w/in the same classroom. Flexible grouping for instruction so all students can advance to the best of their ability/effort.

Nationally, 2% are gifted. It would be reasonable in the FCPS area for 4-5% to be gifted. If you want to include, bright, motivated, almost-gifted kids, the range could stretch up to 10%. There's no way 20% are gifted.

Which is irrelevant because AAP is NOT a G&T program. It's a sped-up and deeper version of the standard curriculum, and I'd assume any truly gifted students would be bored and better served by grade skipping or getting a merit scholarship to an elite private.

As the parent of two "truly gifted" students, I disagree with you. I don't want my kids to skip grades.

And no one's forcing you to. If your kids are fine in AAP, hopefully with some individualized acceleration/differentiation from their teacher, great - I have just seen increased grumbling around here about the plebes tainting the "gifted" program, and FCPS doesn't have a gifted program - it's got AAP.

Anonymous wrote:We just moved to McLean for better schools. I believe half of the classes in 3-6 are AAP. We are a center. I’m not sure how many kids from the base school but more than 20%.

We are new to the area but the homes that feed into our school are $1-5 million homes. I feel like most parents are lawyers or doctors. While not necessarily gifted, these parents all highly educated and make a high income. No surprise that so many of their kids are also high achieving. Before you say it is just SES and money, the actual kids are so bright and motivated while also having great resources at both home and school.

20% sounds right to me for kids to be advanced. I never say my kid is gifted. He is hard working and advanced in academics.

I was always told I was gifted. Everything came easy to me. DH, on the other hand, studied the hardest. He now is at the top of his
Field and earns a seven figure income. He always says being gifted is BS.

You must live in my neighborhood. Also there is a large population of Asian students (both Asian-American and Asian families in diplomatic posts) and it has been said that many of these families seek out FCPS for the AAP program.