Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a weird disconnect on what the point of the DA program is.
It's not to improve the skills of your kid, it's for US Soccer to produce professional players.

In other threads, people complain that the US doesn't do enough to produce professionals, and that our training programs are terrible compared to European programs.

In this thread they complain that coaches are doing everything in their power to bring the best players into the program.

Being a pro is about competing with everyone around you on a daily basis, and if someone else is a hair better, you'll be lower on the charts.

This discussion proves that DA is attracting and produces the wrong kind of players, soft, entitled, etc. DA has been in existence since 2007, i.e., over 10 years. How many DA graduates are currently playing in the top five leagues in Europe?

No, it's producing the wrong kind of parents.
The players are doing well.
Far more US players in top leagues than there were ten years ago, and most of them went through the DA program.

It is an unsupported assertion. Name 10 DA players that are starters in the top five leagues (La Liga, Premier league, Serie A, Bundesliga, and Ligue 1). Take EPL, for example, about 10 years ago. We had Beasley, Bocanegra, De Merit, Dempsey, Donovan (part time), Feilhaber, Friedel, Howard, Guzan, Hahnemann,Holden, Eddie Johnson, Jemal Johnson, Jermain Jones, Keller, Eddie Lewis, Kirovski, McBride, Onyewu, Reyna, Spector, etc.

According to Wikipedia, the following US players were in the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and Ligue 1 ten years ago (i.e, 2008):

EPL
1. Bocanegra - last year at Fulham; first year at Rennes
2. Convey - last year at Fulham
3. Dempsey - Fulham
4. Feilhaber - Derby County (one and only year in EPL)
5. Friedel - Aston Villa
6. Guzan - Aston Villa
7. Howard - Man U
8. E. Johnson - Fulham
9. Keller - Fulham
10. Lewis - Derby County
11. McBride - last year at Fulham
12. Spector - West Ham

Bundesliga
13. Arguez – Berlin
14. Bradley – Borussia M'gladbach
15. Cherundolo – Hannover
16. Donovan – Bayern Munich (really should not be included since he was loaned to Munich in 2009 calendar year and made 6 appearances, but I'll include him)
17. Jones – Frankfurt
18. Zizzo – Hannover

Ligue 1
19. Adu - Monaco

[u]La Liga
20. Altidore - Villareal

[b]Serie A[/u]
None


The following is the current list of US players with teams in in the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and Ligue 1 in 2018. I also included young Americans on U-23 (etc.) teams, since someone with more time than me can figure out whether they were former DA players. To be fair, if this information was readily available for 2008, I would have included it in the 2008 list above.

EPL[/b]
1. Austin - Tottenham (U23)
2. Cameron - Stoke City, which I appreciate was relegated in the Spring of 18. Now at QPR
3. Carter-Vickers - Tottenham (but on loan)
4. de la Torre - Fulham (U23)
5. Konopka - Cardiff City
6. Hydman - Bournemouth
7. Olosunde - Man U (U23)
8. Miazga - Chelsea (but on loan to Nantes in Ligue 1)
9. Palmer-Brown - Man City (but on loan to Breda in top league in Netherlands)
10. Ream - Fulham
11. Robinson - Everton (but on loan)
12. Scott - Chelsea (but on loan to Telstar in Netherlands)
13. Williams - Huddersfield
14. Yedlin - Newcastle
15. Zelalem - Arsenal (U23)

Bundesliga
16. Brooks - Wolfsburg
17. Chandler - Frankfurt
18. Flores - Dortmund (U23)
19. Gloster - Hannover (U23)
20. Klinsman - Berlin
21. Jones - Schalke (U23)
22. Johnson - Moenchengladbach
23. Johannsson - Bremen
24. Mendez - Freiburg (but too young to play until 2019)
25. Morales - Duesseldorf
26. McKennie - Schalke
27. Pulisic - Dortmund
28. Richards - Bayern Munich (U19, on loan from FC Dallas)
29. Rugova - Nurnberg (U19)
30. Sargent - Bremen (U23)
31. Scott - Cologne (U23)
32. Soto - Hannover (U19)
33. Stanko - Freiburg
34. Taitague - Schalke (U23)
35. Tillman - Bayern Munich (on loan to Nurnberg in Bundesliga)
36. Young - Bremen (U23)
37. Wood - Hanover
38. Wright - Schalke

[u]Ligue 1
39. Siebatcheau - Rennes
40. Weah - PSG

[b]La Liga
41. Akale -- Villarreal
42. Moore - Levante in Spring of 18, when they were relegated. Currently on loan to Reus

Serie A[/u]
None


If you exclude the players on U23 or younger teams, as well as players on loan to other teams not currently in one of the top 5 leagues in Europe, so that you get an apples-to-apples comparison of first team players, then you get 20 US players on first teams in 2008, versus 23 US players on first teams in 2018. A small increase, but an increase nonetheless.

However, if you include all of the young players currently on loan or playing for the U23s or younger, then there appear to be a significantly higher number of US players in the top 5 leagues in Europe in 2018 than there were in 2008.

I appreciate that one could still take the position that DA is not primarily responsible for the increase in US players in top 5 leagues overseas, as there are several other reasons behind this increase (e.g., more money being spent by those clubs in scouting the US, etc.).

You have to exclude the players that were not developed in DA system. It would be preposterous to suggest that guys like Weah, Green, Brooks, etc are products of DA. Out of two guys listed for Spain, it is difficult to make a case that either of them was developed by DA. Moore had a total 4 months of "development" with FC Dallas before moving to Spain, while Akale spent his last four years in Spain with Villarreal academy and first team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a weird disconnect on what the point of the DA program is.
It's not to improve the skills of your kid, it's for US Soccer to produce professional players.

In other threads, people complain that the US doesn't do enough to produce professionals, and that our training programs are terrible compared to European programs.

In this thread they complain that coaches are doing everything in their power to bring the best players into the program.

Being a pro is about competing with everyone around you on a daily basis, and if someone else is a hair better, you'll be lower on the charts.

This discussion proves that DA is attracting and produces the wrong kind of players, soft, entitled, etc. DA has been in existence since 2007, i.e., over 10 years. How many DA graduates are currently playing in the top five leagues in Europe?

No, it's producing the wrong kind of parents.
The players are doing well.
Far more US players in top leagues than there were ten years ago, and most of them went through the DA program.

It is an unsupported assertion. Name 10 DA players that are starters in the top five leagues (La Liga, Premier league, Serie A, Bundesliga, and Ligue 1). Take EPL, for example, about 10 years ago. We had Beasley, Bocanegra, De Merit, Dempsey, Donovan (part time), Feilhaber, Friedel, Howard, Guzan, Hahnemann,Holden, Eddie Johnson, Jemal Johnson, Jermain Jones, Keller, Eddie Lewis, Kirovski, McBride, Onyewu, Reyna, Spector, etc.

According to Wikipedia, the following US players were in the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and Ligue 1 ten years ago (i.e, 2008):

EPL
1. Bocanegra - last year at Fulham; first year at Rennes
2. Convey - last year at Fulham
3. Dempsey - Fulham
4. Feilhaber - Derby County (one and only year in EPL)
5. Friedel - Aston Villa
6. Guzan - Aston Villa
7. Howard - Man U
8. E. Johnson - Fulham
9. Keller - Fulham
10. Lewis - Derby County
11. McBride - last year at Fulham
12. Spector - West Ham

Bundesliga
13. Arguez – Berlin
14. Bradley – Borussia M'gladbach
15. Cherundolo – Hannover
16. Donovan – Bayern Munich (really should not be included since he was loaned to Munich in 2009 calendar year and made 6 appearances, but I'll include him)
17. Jones – Frankfurt
18. Zizzo – Hannover

Ligue 1
19. Adu - Monaco

[u]La Liga
20. Altidore - Villareal

[b]Serie A[/u]
None


The following is the current list of US players with teams in in the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and Ligue 1 in 2018. I also included young Americans on U-23 (etc.) teams, since someone with more time than me can figure out whether they were former DA players. To be fair, if this information was readily available for 2008, I would have included it in the 2008 list above.

EPL[/b]
1. Austin - Tottenham (U23)
2. Cameron - Stoke City, which I appreciate was relegated in the Spring of 18. Now at QPR
3. Carter-Vickers - Tottenham (but on loan)
4. de la Torre - Fulham (U23)
5. Konopka - Cardiff City
6. Hydman - Bournemouth
7. Olosunde - Man U (U23)
8. Miazga - Chelsea (but on loan to Nantes in Ligue 1)
9. Palmer-Brown - Man City (but on loan to Breda in top league in Netherlands)
10. Ream - Fulham
11. Robinson - Everton (but on loan)
12. Scott - Chelsea (but on loan to Telstar in Netherlands)
13. Williams - Huddersfield
14. Yedlin - Newcastle
15. Zelalem - Arsenal (U23)

Bundesliga
16. Brooks - Wolfsburg
17. Chandler - Frankfurt
18. Flores - Dortmund (U23)
19. Gloster - Hannover (U23)
20. Klinsman - Berlin
21. Jones - Schalke (U23)
22. Johnson - Moenchengladbach
23. Johannsson - Bremen
24. Mendez - Freiburg (but too young to play until 2019)
25. Morales - Duesseldorf
26. McKennie - Schalke
27. Pulisic - Dortmund
28. Richards - Bayern Munich (U19, on loan from FC Dallas)
29. Rugova - Nurnberg (U19)
30. Sargent - Bremen (U23)
31. Scott - Cologne (U23)
32. Soto - Hannover (U19)
33. Stanko - Freiburg
34. Taitague - Schalke (U23)
35. Tillman - Bayern Munich (on loan to Nurnberg in Bundesliga)
36. Young - Bremen (U23)
37. Wood - Hanover
38. Wright - Schalke

[u]Ligue 1
39. Siebatcheau - Rennes
40. Weah - PSG

[b]La Liga
41. Akale -- Villarreal
42. Moore - Levante in Spring of 18, when they were relegated. Currently on loan to Reus

Serie A[/u]
None


If you exclude the players on U23 or younger teams, as well as players on loan to other teams not currently in one of the top 5 leagues in Europe, so that you get an apples-to-apples comparison of first team players, then you get 20 US players on first teams in 2008, versus 23 US players on first teams in 2018. A small increase, but an increase nonetheless.

However, if you include all of the young players currently on loan or playing for the U23s or younger, then there appear to be a significantly higher number of US players in the top 5 leagues in Europe in 2018 than there were in 2008.

I appreciate that one could still take the position that DA is not primarily responsible for the increase in US players in top 5 leagues overseas, as there are several other reasons behind this increase (e.g., more money being spent by those clubs in scouting the US, etc.).

Anonymous wrote:A lot of American players in Germany

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather predictably, another thread devolving into a trash job of DA and US Soccer. My God it gets old on this forum. I'm seriously beginning to wonder who is financing this crap, because no sane person would spend so much time on the attack, from so many angles.

Well, it’s not “one” same person. It’s felt by so many veterans in the sport and thus you have many different posters with similar positions. Newcomers/first generation soccer families are the optimistic ones. They buy it. Others have been watching the same sh@t different branding for 30-40 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a weird disconnect on what the point of the DA program is.
It's not to improve the skills of your kid, it's for US Soccer to produce professional players.

In other threads, people complain that the US doesn't do enough to produce professionals, and that our training programs are terrible compared to European programs.

In this thread they complain that coaches are doing everything in their power to bring the best players into the program.

Being a pro is about competing with everyone around you on a daily basis, and if someone else is a hair better, you'll be lower on the charts.

This discussion proves that DA is attracting and produces the wrong kind of players, soft, entitled, etc. DA has been in existence since 2007, i.e., over 10 years. How many DA graduates are currently playing in the top five leagues in Europe?

No, it's producing the wrong kind of parents.
The players are doing well.
Far more US players in top leagues than there were ten years ago, and most of them went through the DA program.

It is an unsupported assertion. Name 10 DA players that are starters in the top five leagues (La Liga, Premier league, Serie A, Bundesliga, and Ligue 1). Take EPL, for example, about 10 years ago. We had Beasley, Bocanegra, De Merit, Dempsey, Donovan (part time), Feilhaber, Friedel, Howard, Guzan, Hahnemann,Holden, Eddie Johnson, Jemal Johnson, Jermain Jones, Keller, Eddie Lewis, Kirovski, McBride, Onyewu, Reyna, Spector, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Rather predictably, another thread devolving into a trash job of DA and US Soccer. My God it gets old on this forum. I'm seriously beginning to wonder who is financing this crap, because no sane person would spend so much time on the attack, from so many angles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a weird disconnect on what the point of the DA program is.
It's not to improve the skills of your kid, it's for US Soccer to produce professional players.

In other threads, people complain that the US doesn't do enough to produce professionals, and that our training programs are terrible compared to European programs.

In this thread they complain that coaches are doing everything in their power to bring the best players into the program.

Being a pro is about competing with everyone around you on a daily basis, and if someone else is a hair better, you'll be lower on the charts.

This discussion proves that DA is attracting and produces the wrong kind of players, soft, entitled, etc. DA has been in existence since 2007, i.e., over 10 years. How many DA graduates are currently playing in the top five leagues in Europe?

No, it's producing the wrong kind of parents.
The players are doing well.
Far more US players in top leagues than there were ten years ago, and most of them went through the DA program.

Anonymous wrote:The problem is with the coaches US has terrible coaching, level of coaches and qualifications are significantly less than Europe. It’s not the kids, our coaches aren’t good at selecting and developing kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a weird disconnect on what the point of the DA program is.
It's not to improve the skills of your kid, it's for US Soccer to produce professional players.

In other threads, people complain that the US doesn't do enough to produce professionals, and that our training programs are terrible compared to European programs.

In this thread they complain that coaches are doing everything in their power to bring the best players into the program.

Being a pro is about competing with everyone around you on a daily basis, and if someone else is a hair better, you'll be lower on the charts.

This discussion proves that DA is attracting and produces the wrong kind of players, soft, entitled, etc. DA has been in existence since 2007, i.e., over 10 years. How many DA graduates are currently playing in the top five leagues in Europe?

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a weird disconnect on what the point of the DA program is.
It's not to improve the skills of your kid, it's for US Soccer to produce professional players.

In other threads, people complain that the US doesn't do enough to produce professionals, and that our training programs are terrible compared to European programs.

In this thread they complain that coaches are doing everything in their power to bring the best players into the program.

Being a pro is about competing with everyone around you on a daily basis, and if someone else is a hair better, you'll be lower on the charts.