Anonymous
11/28/2018 08:54
Subject: Re:Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Residency verification should be the same as verification for DC TAG, which includes a certified copy of DC tax return. It's all done electronically now and not particularly onerous.
Except you can't - because attendance at school is compulsory and you are not supposed to erect barriers to enrollment (e.g. even undocumented people can walk in and attend). No one has a right to go to college, much less get a voucher to reduce the cost.
OSSE now allows people to voluntarily give OTR permission to share their tax info to prove residency but I don't think it can be made compulsory.
I think this has come up, but using the taxes should be default, and then if your tax return can't be found by the system (which could be automated) - THEN you are asked to come in with other documentation. At least this would narrow any resources to be spent on catching cheaters to that somewhat small pool. Sure, there are always exceptions but deal with them individually. Nobody is going to start paying DC taxes who doesn't live here.
Anonymous
11/28/2018 08:30
Subject: Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:OSSE should outsource the residency fraud investigations and pay a bounty for every case of nonresidency that is sustained. Create an economic incentive for others to ferret out the cheaters and it will take care of a lot of the problem.
Unnecessary. The reality is that Ellington, as a school that accepts tuition actually allows people from DC and VA to attend. The cheating is in the saying you are from DC to escape tuition. So if Ellington is, for all practical purposes, a "regional" arts school, the solution is to make its funding regional. At the very least any one from MD or VA who wants to attend and cannot afford tuition should be able to apply to their state for tuition coverage for kids from that state. In fact, it should do away with tuition altogether and make MD and VA pay directly for any MD/VA student who attends Ellington in that 10% non-resident MOU the school operates by. That's only fair. No need to cheat if the states are in a regional agreement.
Anonymous
11/28/2018 08:04
Subject: Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
OSSE should outsource the residency fraud investigations and pay a bounty for every case of nonresidency that is sustained. Create an economic incentive for others to ferret out the cheaters and it will take care of a lot of the problem.
Anonymous
11/28/2018 07:35
Subject: Re:Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Residency verification should be the same as verification for DC TAG, which includes a certified copy of DC tax return. It's all done electronically now and not particularly onerous.
Except you can't - because attendance at school is compulsory and you are not supposed to erect barriers to enrollment (e.g. even undocumented people can walk in and attend). No one has a right to go to college, much less get a voucher to reduce the cost.
OSSE now allows people to voluntarily give OTR permission to share their tax info to prove residency but I don't think it can be made compulsory.
Yes, OSSE now has a check on the application box that gives permission to share tax info. That's good. The problem is it is not an automatic system after you sign, and nobody tells you that. There is a second step where you must go on a website, give tax data plus the amount of the previous year's refund or amount owed, and it takes 24-48 hours for that info to be confirmed via email. It works as a system, but again nobody tells you about the second step until after they've flagged you for non-residency. DC can make even an efficient process inefficient by lack of information and poor communication.
Anonymous
11/28/2018 00:08
Subject: Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Why doesn't DC have one central registration office, computer system and staff that are in charge of registering families & students to attend school in DC?? A number of other unified school districts require families to submit their admissions paperwork including proof of residence to one central office. Their are sometimes satellite offices or traveling staff sent to education fairs, schools, libraries, rec centers etc as well as options for submitting documents online. If one staff team/office (not each schools administration) was primarily responsible for verification of residence & other paperwork required their wold likely be less issues. No one in the school looking the other way just to keep numbers up, hopefully no one coaching people on how to beat the system and less stress of each schools offices. The central office can send documents directly to whatever School the family /student wishes to enroll. Also, saves families from filling out the same thing 10 times too.
I totally agree this should happen. I think it actually came up as an idea in the early days of the cross sector task force but not sure it was considered relevant to their mandate.
Anonymous
11/27/2018 23:46
Subject: Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Why doesn't DC have one central registration office, computer system and staff that are in charge of registering families & students to attend school in DC?? A number of other unified school districts require families to submit their admissions paperwork including proof of residence to one central office. Their are sometimes satellite offices or traveling staff sent to education fairs, schools, libraries, rec centers etc as well as options for submitting documents online. If one staff team/office (not each schools administration) was primarily responsible for verification of residence & other paperwork required their wold likely be less issues. No one in the school looking the other way just to keep numbers up, hopefully no one coaching people on how to beat the system and less stress of each schools offices. The central office can send documents directly to whatever School the family /student wishes to enroll. Also, saves families from filling out the same thing 10 times too.
Anonymous
11/27/2018 23:22
Subject: Re:Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Residency verification should be the same as verification for DC TAG, which includes a certified copy of DC tax return. It's all done electronically now and not particularly onerous.
Except you can't - because attendance at school is compulsory and you are not supposed to erect barriers to enrollment (e.g. even undocumented people can walk in and attend). No one has a right to go to college, much less get a voucher to reduce the cost.
OSSE now allows people to voluntarily give OTR permission to share their tax info to prove residency but I don't think it can be made compulsory.
Not true.
No one csn just show up at s school and attend just because.
Of course they can if neighborhood school ... it's illegal not to be in a school
Anonymous
11/27/2018 22:25
Subject: Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
There’s are a number of Ellington students who really live in PG County. if there’s one thing that characterizes PG, skimming and scamming are the major pastime.
Anonymous
11/27/2018 22:13
Subject: Re:Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Residency verification should be the same as verification for DC TAG, which includes a certified copy of DC tax return. It's all done electronically now and not particularly onerous.
Except you can't - because attendance at school is compulsory and you are not supposed to erect barriers to enrollment (e.g. even undocumented people can walk in and attend). No one has a right to go to college, much less get a voucher to reduce the cost.
OSSE now allows people to voluntarily give OTR permission to share their tax info to prove residency but I don't think it can be made compulsory.
Not true.
No one csn just show up at s school and attend just because.
If you say you are homeless and sleeping in your car, on the streets, or doubled up with family members due to economic reasons you can declare you are homeless and you can in fact show up at a school and be enrolled.
yes, and if you say car or streets, CFSA will be contacted and you'll be pushed into a motel or shelter or staying with a relative if you want to keep your kids.
It seems unlikely that anyone is claiming homelessness as a means of getting into any school.
Anonymous
11/27/2018 22:08
Subject: Re:Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Residency verification should be the same as verification for DC TAG, which includes a certified copy of DC tax return. It's all done electronically now and not particularly onerous.
Except you can't - because attendance at school is compulsory and you are not supposed to erect barriers to enrollment (e.g. even undocumented people can walk in and attend). No one has a right to go to college, much less get a voucher to reduce the cost.
OSSE now allows people to voluntarily give OTR permission to share their tax info to prove residency but I don't think it can be made compulsory.
Not true.
No one csn just show up at s school and attend just because.
If you say you are homeless and sleeping in your car, on the streets, or doubled up with family members due to economic reasons you can declare you are homeless and you can in fact show up at a school and be enrolled.
Anonymous
11/27/2018 21:55
Subject: Re:Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Residency verification should be the same as verification for DC TAG, which includes a certified copy of DC tax return. It's all done electronically now and not particularly onerous.
Except you can't - because attendance at school is compulsory and you are not supposed to erect barriers to enrollment (e.g. even undocumented people can walk in and attend). No one has a right to go to college, much less get a voucher to reduce the cost.
OSSE now allows people to voluntarily give OTR permission to share their tax info to prove residency but I don't think it can be made compulsory.
Not true.
No one csn just show up at s school and attend just because.
Anonymous
11/27/2018 20:47
Subject: Re:Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Residency verification should be the same as verification for DC TAG, which includes a certified copy of DC tax return. It's all done electronically now and not particularly onerous.
Except you can't - because attendance at school is compulsory and you are not supposed to erect barriers to enrollment (e.g. even undocumented people can walk in and attend). No one has a right to go to college, much less get a voucher to reduce the cost.
OSSE now allows people to voluntarily give OTR permission to share their tax info to prove residency but I don't think it can be made compulsory.
Anonymous
11/27/2018 20:44
Subject: Re:Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Residency verification should be the same as verification for DC TAG, which includes a certified copy of DC tax return. It's all done electronically now and not particularly onerous.
Anonymous
11/27/2018 20:41
Subject: Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:33 confirmed cheaters is still way too much cheating, no matter how much OSSE got it wrong initially. Someone was negligent to let that many families get away with it and it cost DC tons in taxpayer dollars to foot the bill for however many years for each kid, not to mention the untold numbers of cheaters before them.
Anyone know what happened to the 11 non-residents found at Shepherd or the 6 at Breakthrough?
Where did you get this Shepherd number from? As a Shepherd parent I am interested in these findings!
Last year's enrollment audit report - same one with the initial Ellington number.
This webpage page -> click on the link that says data and go to tab 3 of the spreadsheet https://osse.dc.gov/node/1306796
Anonymous
11/27/2018 20:40
Subject: Scope of OSSE errors in Ellington case revealed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:And, even if the total number of students initially identified were not all cheaters, their paperwork was dodgy enough to raise concerns, which overall indicates the registrar at Ellington is not doing due diligence. Just because those families proved residence, doesn’t mean the paperwork was proper up front.
This is what jumped out at me. Even if all the kids ultimately proved their residency, the fact that so many were enrolled with suspect paperwork is a problem. I can understand that a few students are going to have unusual living arrangements, but most people should be able to supply the requisite number of approved documents. The school needs to be vetting this stuff better.
We do not know what the paperwork problems were. If the registrar was sloppy, that does not mean that the paperwork was "dodgy" in a blame the parents way. I have filed residency paperwork every year for the past 9 years. This past year I forgot to sign in one spot and months later our school registrar caught it and reached out to me and I then signed correctly. She is a good registrar and I made an inadvertent mistake and she failed to catch it.
It is a really big deal that OSSE made such huge errors. It undermines the ability to rely on its work and public claims. Yes, cheating is bad, but so is bungled enforcement.
If you look at any of the OSSE documents they outline what type of records they encountered at Ellington. Since they can only go on what the school provides them they did the right thing, took the poor verification conducted by the school and used that as they law required them to do.
They did their job. Ellington, not so much.
Your premise is wrong. They did not just take what the school gave them. They started with what the school gave them, then went deeper into other means -- property records, social media, pay stubs and things beyond what parents provided to come up with the determination of non-residency. In other words, in most cases the paperwork given to schools met the criteria because families tend to turn in those things they know will pass muster. Which begs the question of why OSSE says you can prove residency with one or two things, but then reserves the right to look at Thing 4 & 5 that you did not turn in. There simply needs to be a new process. It should be tax-based, and it should be done and approved by OSSE prior to school entry, not months after you've started class.