Anonymous
11/15/2018 20:34
Subject: I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:
Also some good public high schools in the midwest . . . Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois suburban areas.
+1000 western Minneapolis inner (St. Louis Park) and outer (Lake Minnetonka) suburbs, northern Chicago suburbs (New Trier), East Grand Rapids HS and Grosse Pointe South HS in Detroit.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 18:07
Subject: I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
I moved to Moco for the privates. Publics are done everywhere.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 17:47
Subject: Re:I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Transplant here. I taught in NY before coming here to teach. I can verify the change. There were much higher standards in NY. The people who say it used to be better are also right to some degree (it really depends on the track and the school now). My experience is that the newer teachers are not the same caliber and have been schooled in monitoring the testing "data". There are some exceptions for sure, but in general this is the trend.
The new teachers don't know how to teach. I don't know if it is because they don't understand their material or for other reasons but they rely heavily on handouts and weekly mini quizzes/quizzes/classworks and tests. Kids spend more time taking tests and quizzes then actually learning.
DP. I have wondered about this. Is it because of NCLB? Principals? The way teaching is taught in college? Or just the teachers themselves?
It's my impression that this is not an FCPS issue, and not a not-a-northern-school issue, but is nationwide, to some extent.
In her book, Building a Better Teacher, Elizabeth Green posits that the problem is the way teaching is taught. In the US, teacher's colleges were subsumed by the university system in the 1960s and, thus, the decline began. My (admittedly limited) personal experience supports Green's position. One of my sons had an elementary school teacher from Ireland who went to teacher's college. She was one of the best teachers he ever had.
Now, in Virginia, anyone with a bachelors degree can become a certified teacher by taking a one-semester course. Sadly, I can tell which of my children's teachers took this route almost immediately. They have no idea how to communicate with children. The way they interact with children is no different from the way other adults interact with children.
Being smart does not make one a good teacher. Teaching is an art that is no longer being taught, and we should demand better.
Regarding the bolded, is this true? I looked into it and it was a multi-year endeavor. Do you have any links to the one semester course?
Anonymous
11/15/2018 17:43
Subject: Re:I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Just some of the states w stellar public high schools.
Historically, the northern states preceded the southern in education. Sadly, this still persists within some southern states today.
This. There are a lot of transplants from the north in NOVA just used to better quality. I have no idea what the schools are like in Southern Virginia compared to NOVA nor do I care if they aren't noted to be good.
Transplant here. I taught in NY before coming here to teach. I can verify the change. There were much higher standards in NY. The people who say it used to be better are also right to some degree (it really depends on the track and the school now). My experience is that the newer teachers are not the same caliber and have been schooled in monitoring the testing "data". There are some exceptions for sure, but in general this is the trend.
The new teachers don't know how to teach. I don't know if it is because they don't understand their material or for other reasons but they rely heavily on handouts and weekly mini quizzes/quizzes/classworks and tests. Kids spend more time taking tests and quizzes then actually learning.
+1
And working on ridiculous "group projects."
Anonymous
11/15/2018 17:41
Subject: I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm 50 and grew up attending all FCPS schools. They actually were excellent at the time. I now send my own kids to them, and sadly they are no longer excellent. Maybe compared to other areas, but not compared to how they used to be. FCPS has coasted on its reputation for far too long. I think they got complacent in the 80's and just let things slide. Grammar, writing - these are just not emphasized enough. It's sad that they've gone downhill.
The demographics have changed considerably since you were growing up as well.
PP here, and you are correct - they have. But still, the quality of the curriculum is not nearly what it used to be. Maybe in high school, but definitely not in elementary or middle. Too much reliance on "technology in the classroom" and not enough actual reading and writing.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 17:02
Subject: Re:I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Transplant here. I taught in NY before coming here to teach. I can verify the change. There were much higher standards in NY. The people who say it used to be better are also right to some degree (it really depends on the track and the school now). My experience is that the newer teachers are not the same caliber and have been schooled in monitoring the testing "data". There are some exceptions for sure, but in general this is the trend.
The new teachers don't know how to teach. I don't know if it is because they don't understand their material or for other reasons but they rely heavily on handouts and weekly mini quizzes/quizzes/classworks and tests. Kids spend more time taking tests and quizzes then actually learning.
DP. I have wondered about this. Is it because of NCLB? Principals? The way teaching is taught in college? Or just the teachers themselves?
It's my impression that this is not an FCPS issue, and not a not-a-northern-school issue, but is nationwide, to some extent.
In her book, Building a Better Teacher, Elizabeth Green posits that the problem is the way teaching is taught. In the US, teacher's colleges were subsumed by the university system in the 1960s and, thus, the decline began. My (admittedly limited) personal experience supports Green's position. One of my sons had an elementary school teacher from Ireland who went to teacher's college. She was one of the best teachers he ever had.
Now, in Virginia, anyone with a bachelors degree can become a certified teacher by taking a one-semester course. Sadly, I can tell which of my children's teachers took this route almost immediately. They have no idea how to communicate with children. The way they interact with children is no different from the way other adults interact with children.
Being smart does not make one a good teacher. Teaching is an art that is no longer being taught, and we should demand better.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 16:22
Subject: I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Meh. There are some good public high schools in NOVA, and some not good public high schools in NoVA. It doesn't matter what state or part of the country you are in - high schools in wealthy areas are good (if we define good by objective outcomes like test scores and college preparedness) and "goodness" decreases as socioeconomic status of students decrease. As such, FFX has a high percent of students - especially in certain schools - who come from wealthy backgrounds and thus perform strongly. That's all there is to it. People who think there is something inherently special about FCPS curriculum, teachers, etc. compared to the rest of the state/country are deluding themselves.
I hear all the time that "the bad public FCPS high schools would be considered good in a lot of the rest of the country!!!!" and objectively, that is just not true.
I hear all the time that "the bad public FCPS high schools would be considered good in a lot of the rest of the country!!!!" and objectively, that is just not true.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 16:12
Subject: Re:I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Just some of the states w stellar public high schools.
Historically, the northern states preceded the southern in education. Sadly, this still persists within some southern states today.
This. There are a lot of transplants from the north in NOVA just used to better quality. I have no idea what the schools are like in Southern Virginia compared to NOVA nor do I care if they aren't noted to be good.
Transplant here. I taught in NY before coming here to teach. I can verify the change. There were much higher standards in NY. The people who say it used to be better are also right to some degree (it really depends on the track and the school now). My experience is that the newer teachers are not the same caliber and have been schooled in monitoring the testing "data". There are some exceptions for sure, but in general this is the trend.
The new teachers don't know how to teach. I don't know if it is because they don't understand their material or for other reasons but they rely heavily on handouts and weekly mini quizzes/quizzes/classworks and tests. Kids spend more time taking tests and quizzes then actually learning.
I guess the college professors missed this memo, because they all rely more on lectures and class discussions, not solely on classwork quizzes, mini quizzes and tests. My kids come home after an all day school and have to teach themselves the material. We did not have to do that 40 years ago.
Doing classwork and taking tests and quizzes are actually a more powerful way to learn than listening to a teacher.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 11:16
Subject: Re:I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Transplant here. I taught in NY before coming here to teach. I can verify the change. There were much higher standards in NY. The people who say it used to be better are also right to some degree (it really depends on the track and the school now). My experience is that the newer teachers are not the same caliber and have been schooled in monitoring the testing "data". There are some exceptions for sure, but in general this is the trend.
The new teachers don't know how to teach. I don't know if it is because they don't understand their material or for other reasons but they rely heavily on handouts and weekly mini quizzes/quizzes/classworks and tests. Kids spend more time taking tests and quizzes then actually learning.
DP. I have wondered about this. Is it because of NCLB? Principals? The way teaching is taught in college? Or just the teachers themselves?
It's my impression that this is not an FCPS issue, and not a not-a-northern-school issue, but is nationwide, to some extent.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 10:59
Subject: I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:I would say you should have worked harder and would be able to afford the good schools.
Good god. This is how we end up in this situation. When people convince themselves their success is based purely on hard work and nothing else. You know who works harder than all these rich lawyers? The dad making minimum wage in 3 jobs to provide for his family. Get off your goddamn high horse.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 10:54
Subject: Re:I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Just some of the states w stellar public high schools.
Historically, the northern states preceded the southern in education. Sadly, this still persists within some southern states today.
This. There are a lot of transplants from the north in NOVA just used to better quality. I have no idea what the schools are like in Southern Virginia compared to NOVA nor do I care if they aren't noted to be good.
Transplant here. I taught in NY before coming here to teach. I can verify the change. There were much higher standards in NY. The people who say it used to be better are also right to some degree (it really depends on the track and the school now). My experience is that the newer teachers are not the same caliber and have been schooled in monitoring the testing "data". There are some exceptions for sure, but in general this is the trend.
The new teachers don't know how to teach. I don't know if it is because they don't understand their material or for other reasons but they rely heavily on handouts and weekly mini quizzes/quizzes/classworks and tests. Kids spend more time taking tests and quizzes then actually learning.
Doing classwork and taking tests and quizzes are actually a more powerful way to learn than listening to a teacher.
link?
Anonymous
11/15/2018 10:37
Subject: Re:I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Just some of the states w stellar public high schools.
Historically, the northern states preceded the southern in education. Sadly, this still persists within some southern states today.
This. There are a lot of transplants from the north in NOVA just used to better quality. I have no idea what the schools are like in Southern Virginia compared to NOVA nor do I care if they aren't noted to be good.
Transplant here. I taught in NY before coming here to teach. I can verify the change. There were much higher standards in NY. The people who say it used to be better are also right to some degree (it really depends on the track and the school now). My experience is that the newer teachers are not the same caliber and have been schooled in monitoring the testing "data". There are some exceptions for sure, but in general this is the trend.
The new teachers don't know how to teach. I don't know if it is because they don't understand their material or for other reasons but they rely heavily on handouts and weekly mini quizzes/quizzes/classworks and tests. Kids spend more time taking tests and quizzes then actually learning.
Doing classwork and taking tests and quizzes are actually a more powerful way to learn than listening to a teacher.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 10:32
Subject: Re:I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Just some of the states w stellar public high schools.
Historically, the northern states preceded the southern in education. Sadly, this still persists within some southern states today.
This. There are a lot of transplants from the north in NOVA just used to better quality. I have no idea what the schools are like in Southern Virginia compared to NOVA nor do I care if they aren't noted to be good.
Transplant here. I taught in NY before coming here to teach. I can verify the change. There were much higher standards in NY. The people who say it used to be better are also right to some degree (it really depends on the track and the school now). My experience is that the newer teachers are not the same caliber and have been schooled in monitoring the testing "data". There are some exceptions for sure, but in general this is the trend.
The new teachers don't know how to teach. I don't know if it is because they don't understand their material or for other reasons but they rely heavily on handouts and weekly mini quizzes/quizzes/classworks and tests. Kids spend more time taking tests and quizzes then actually learning.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 08:14
Subject: I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm 50 and grew up attending all FCPS schools. They actually were excellent at the time. I now send my own kids to them, and sadly they are no longer excellent. Maybe compared to other areas, but not compared to how they used to be. FCPS has coasted on its reputation for far too long. I think they got complacent in the 80's and just let things slide. Grammar, writing - these are just not emphasized enough. It's sad that they've gone downhill.
The demographics have changed considerably since you were growing up as well.
Fairfax County used to be almost entirely middle class. There used to be farm land and undeveloped parcels. I remember watching the change in the 90’s when I was in high school.
There has also been a shift in educational philosophy. They teach everything differently now. I’m not an educator, so I can’t speak to that.
They mainstream all kids. In the 80’s, special needs kids went to a different school.
So much has changed it’s impossible to compare FCPS’s of the 70’s/80’s/90’s to today.
But I agree that the quality isn’t the same.
I went to elementary and middle school in Herndon in the late 80s/early 90s. Elementary was good but if Herndon Middle School (formerly Herndon Intermediate) is worse now than it was then, it should be shut down. Honestly. Even then, teachers were ineffective, classes were enormous and loud, kids were getting in fights on a daily basis, sexual harassment was rampant, bullying was out of control. Things I learned during those 2 years:
- Don't make eye contact if someone bumps into me in the hall.
- Don't react if a boy pinches my butt because if his girlfriend found out he did it, I'd get jumped.
- I must suck at math because only the boys in my Algebra I class were given study materials and encouraged to take the TJ test.
- Don't forget my backpack in the lunchroom because someone will steal it (first time) or dump milk in it (second time)
- If I accidentally sat at the wrong lunch table, I'd get jumped
- Best course of action is stay as quiet and invisible as possible at all times.
Obviously that school is still at the bottom of the FCPS rankings, but it's not like it was a good school back then either, by any measure.
Anonymous
11/15/2018 07:31
Subject: I grew up hearing that the NoVA public schools were the best in the state
Also some good public high schools in the midwest . . . Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Illinois suburban areas.
Educated moms basically.
Educated moms basically.