Anonymous wrote:I’m interested in whether anyone can answer OP’s original question. Has anyone here tried a trial separation and found that it actually did help the marriage?

From my observations, if a woman initiates this, the marriage is over. Women are a lot less wishy washy with ending things.

Anonymous wrote:
In a lot of marriages and then divorces, the husband never was capable of managing aspects of the kids or schedule beyond executing obvious tasks. So to suddenly put it on him (planning, managing, remembering) would be disastrous for the kids. He doesn’t make his own doctor, dentist, clean clothes, tidy up, sports sign up, remember to get to appts on time, for himself. How is he suddenly going to get it together for dependents after he already consistently failed to do so for years? He’d have to hurry up and grt a new girlfriend who wants to take care of him and everyone, or maybe move his 70 yo mom in w him.

Why do you ladies pick such loser men to marry? Details, please. We'll be waiting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved out on my DH and only after that, did he agree to therapy. The therapist made it clear without saying so that once one person has already moved out, it's much harder to come back together. And in the end, we did not. Just one anecdote for you.

Agree. It is not an ultimatum. It is just a step to divorce. The guy will love it since all his household and child raising responsibilities went away— mom will take care if that and he can show up for fun dinners and weekend activities—and he can refocus on working late/his career plus dating and acting like a victim of a crazy ex wife. The woman will just keep on running a busy household, raising and parenting her kids and her full time job as well. Oh and will be a secretary for her ex husband’s “Co parenting” schedule.

I laffed

Project much, Lindsey Graham?

If DH and I were to ever divorce, we’d do 50/50. 2 on/5 off. Mon-Tue/ Wed-Thu rotate Fri-Sun. Why? Because I would want to also have a life. We had a rough patch and I told him that there was no way he was only being a parent on the weekend. We ended up working it out. He’s a much more involved dad these days, too. I think him realizing that I’m also an individual not just a mom was eye opening for him.

I’m interested in whether anyone can answer OP’s original question. Has anyone here tried a trial separation and found that it actually did help the marriage?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I separated from my DH but didn’t have another place to “move out” to (at least, that wasn’t a permanent type move) so I moved into a spare bedroom. That was incredibly awkward as during this phase we would both go out with our friends and sometimes not come home until later (no kids), and it’s like okay, do I have the right to ask where you were? Should I come home early to not look like I’m out banging the whole town? It was so, so weird. But, it reinforced the divide that had already grown between us and made our minds up that things were over.

We decided the best thing to do was just start the divorce proceedings and after two weeks of the separate bedroom arrangement I got my own place. I am a woman, I make my own income and my XH owned the house before we were married. I didn’t hate him and had no desire to uproot him or put him in a financial spot he couldn’t afford, so I just left the house without a fight.

I haven’t read the rest of the thread so forgive me if you answered this.

Did you get any of the equity that accumulated while you were married? I am in a similar position, DH owned the house before we met. Or did you not even address it, bc you didn’t need too?

I’m not currently in a position to afford my own place- I’m one of those women everyone hates that stayed home with her kids. Wondering if I need to be back to work to save for a place before going through with the divorce.

PP here. I didn’t ask for it. We didn’t end our relationship on bad terms and I knew even just having to pay all of the bills himself, with me gone, would be enough of a hardship. I didn’t want to really make things difficult for him and I knew I’d be able to support myself. A clean break was more important to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved out on my DH and only after that, did he agree to therapy. The therapist made it clear without saying so that once one person has already moved out, it's much harder to come back together. And in the end, we did not. Just one anecdote for you.

Agree. It is not an ultimatum. It is just a step to divorce. The guy will love it since all his household and child raising responsibilities went away— mom will take care if that and he can show up for fun dinners and weekend activities—and he can refocus on working late/his career plus dating and acting like a victim of a crazy ex wife. The woman will just keep on running a busy household, raising and parenting her kids and her full time job as well. Oh and will be a secretary for her ex husband’s “Co parenting” schedule.

This is spot on for myself and everyone of my girlfriends. We take on the full mental load of scheduling, school activities, doctor’s appointments, clothing the children, carpool arrangements, school projects, etc....our Exes or STBXs have DCs every other weekend (often canceling)...can barely take them to things like a game or Birthday party....have to text us to see when it is despite it being clearly marked on the calendar. They do not do laundry, feed the kids Pizza or other takeout, do not enforce bedtime and it’s a free for all with the screens. The DCs come home and we get to deal with them being tired and having homework that is not been done. There is only one exception to this I personally know of and that is where the Mother left and moved to Europe. The Dad has an Au Pair and a a Nanny as well as a house cleaner.

Yep and Yep. It's bachelor days plus Disney Dad weekends and dinners out.

So, in other words, you want your exDH to only have his kids a couple of times a month but you want an equal split in childcare responsibilities? How about the kids live with him full time and you get them every other weekend? Seems like things would sort themselves out pretty naturally, don't you think?

In a lot of marriages and then divorces, the husband never was capable of managing aspects of the kids or schedule beyond executing obvious tasks. So to suddenly put it on him (planning, managing, remembering) would be disastrous for the kids. He doesn’t make his own doctor, dentist, clean clothes, tidy up, sports sign up, remember to get to appts on time, for himself. How is he suddenly going to get it together for dependents after he already consistently failed to do so for years? He’d have to hurry up and grt a new girlfriend who wants to take care of him and everyone, or maybe move his 70 yo mom in w him.

Unless a man has a disability he is capable of managing all of this. He just doesn’t want to and in the past has had someone who did it for him.

I don’t read anything here that would be disastrous for the kids. Even doctor’s appointments unless the child has a serious medical problem. Not going to the dentist isn’t a big deal. Even clothing. Eventually the man will experience a consequence for not handling his responsibilities and will improve.

I mean who helps the exDH dress himself in clean clothes? I’m guessing no one and he’s able to make it happen. Same with going to the doctor, having a somewhat clean home, etc.

I would divide up the responsibilities and let him pick which ones to do. Doctor, sports, clothing etc. Then completely ignore it going forward.

Seriously you women need to learn how to deal with men. They are very simple.

+1 It's like half these women need to think they're a superhero and that everyone would cease to exist if they weren't manning the ship. Newsflash--everyone will be fine.

Anonymous wrote:I separated from my DH but didn’t have another place to “move out” to (at least, that wasn’t a permanent type move) so I moved into a spare bedroom. That was incredibly awkward as during this phase we would both go out with our friends and sometimes not come home until later (no kids), and it’s like okay, do I have the right to ask where you were? Should I come home early to not look like I’m out banging the whole town? It was so, so weird. But, it reinforced the divide that had already grown between us and made our minds up that things were over.

We decided the best thing to do was just start the divorce proceedings and after two weeks of the separate bedroom arrangement I got my own place. I am a woman, I make my own income and my XH owned the house before we were married. I didn’t hate him and had no desire to uproot him or put him in a financial spot he couldn’t afford, so I just left the house without a fight.

I haven’t read the rest of the thread so forgive me if you answered this.

Did you get any of the equity that accumulated while you were married? I am in a similar position, DH owned the house before we met. Or did you not even address it, bc you didn’t need too?

I’m not currently in a position to afford my own place- I’m one of those women everyone hates that stayed home with her kids. Wondering if I need to be back to work to save for a place before going through with the divorce.

OP, I'm really sorry to hear about what a hard time you are having. I am in a similar situation and wondering the same thing. DH had a terrible childhood and can be charming and funny and loving one day, then withdrawn and hostile the next, and if I push him when he is withdrawn ("You seem unhappy... is something the matter?") he flips into abusive rage, shouting and insulting.

He is (finally) seeing a therapist, taking medication, and finally acknowledging some of the emotional damage he has done. I have tried to be very supportive and I am genuinely happy and proud of him for starting to work through his issues. But though is is a bit better than he used to be (rages are a little less frequent and don't last quite as long), he is also increasingly having tensions with the kids, who are now in their teens and are no longer willing to just apologize and do what he says. They are increasingly calling out his bad behavior, and, no surprise, he is responding by freezing them out or yelling at them. I am just at the point where I am no longer sure we can stay in the same house as him. I don't feel physically in danger, but I feel like we are all, especially the kids, in emotional danger if that makes sense.

I am really struggling to figure out what to do. I recognize that he is truly (if unevenly) trying to change and that changing may take a long time, and part of me feels like I need to be there for him and "reward" his genuine efforts to work on things by being there for him. But part of me feels like: enough! I am sick of tiptoeing around his moods and watching the kids tiptoe around his moods, and sick of being yelled at if we forget to tiptoe.

I am wondering if a separation might be in order - saying, "You have a lot of work to do, I love you but I think we need some space from one another for a while, let's reevaluate in three months or six months." Maybe I am fooling myself and that would just be a step towards divorce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. For a little more context, and answering of some questions......DH is very mentally and emotionally abusive. It's been going on for years, and has totally wreaked havoc on my self esteem. After finally getting therapy and further understanding what's going on I feel like I need space to further build myself back up. DH and I are also in couples therapy. The couples therapy seems to be helping him understand my major complaints over the years and areas where his behavior and thinking is off base. He is just now starting to try in the marriage. The problem is that for me the damage has been done, and I need to recover. I have suffered severe depression as a result of the abuse. I don't have the fortitude to heal myself while he is working out his issues. Because even though he is trying and improving he still makes mistakes that are abusive.

We have a child. He has a very strong relationship with our kid. I would hate to permanently disrupt our family life. At the same time I don't want the abuse that has been taking place to be normalized. Before calling it quits I want to know I did everything possible to save my marriage.

How do you see this temporary separation playing out?

OP here. I was thinking of moving out for 30-60 days while we still go to couples therapy and he goes to individual therapy. I need some time to get from under the thumb of the day to day abuse. So I can think straight and repair some of the damage that has been done. I was thinking that a separation would also give him time to work on himself if he chooses, without the added day to day burden of marital stress. If shows that he has been working on himself, and I feel I have gotten stronger, we could consider me moving back in.

Are you already working with your own therapist? What does he or she say about this plan?

It is rare that abusive men change, and it doesn’t happen in two months. Likely what will happen is he will behave for 30-60 days, and maybe for another 30 days after you move back in.

Then slowly, you will slip into old patterns, and you’ll be right back where you were, except your kids now are witnesses to the break-up/make-up cycle, and you have less support from family and friends the second time.

Read the book “Why does he do that” by Lundy Barcroft.

You may also find that after 30-60 days, you hopefully approach him, and he tells you to pound sand, which could be heartbreaking.

I would move out, with the intention of being separated for a year, heading towards divorce. Both of you work individually with therapists, and in a year, try marriage counseling to decide what you really want. Then pursue that deliberately.

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone temporarily separated from their spouse due to marital problems. How did it work out? Was your relationship improved after moving back in together?

XH and I separated temporarily at my request. He convinced me to reconcile. Six months later, I got pregnant and by the end of my first trimester, we separated again. The second time was easier because I knew there was no way we would/could reconcile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved out on my DH and only after that, did he agree to therapy. The therapist made it clear without saying so that once one person has already moved out, it's much harder to come back together. And in the end, we did not. Just one anecdote for you.

Agree. It is not an ultimatum. It is just a step to divorce. The guy will love it since all his household and child raising responsibilities went away— mom will take care if that and he can show up for fun dinners and weekend activities—and he can refocus on working late/his career plus dating and acting like a victim of a crazy ex wife. The woman will just keep on running a busy household, raising and parenting her kids and her full time job as well. Oh and will be a secretary for her ex husband’s “Co parenting” schedule.

This is spot on for myself and everyone of my girlfriends. We take on the full mental load of scheduling, school activities, doctor’s appointments, clothing the children, carpool arrangements, school projects, etc....our Exes or STBXs have DCs every other weekend (often canceling)...can barely take them to things like a game or Birthday party....have to text us to see when it is despite it being clearly marked on the calendar. They do not do laundry, feed the kids Pizza or other takeout, do not enforce bedtime and it’s a free for all with the screens. The DCs come home and we get to deal with them being tired and having homework that is not been done. There is only one exception to this I personally know of and that is where the Mother left and moved to Europe. The Dad has an Au Pair and a a Nanny as well as a house cleaner.

Yep and Yep. It's bachelor days plus Disney Dad weekends and dinners out.

So, in other words, you want your exDH to only have his kids a couple of times a month but you want an equal split in childcare responsibilities? How about the kids live with him full time and you get them every other weekend? Seems like things would sort themselves out pretty naturally, don't you think?

In a lot of marriages and then divorces, the husband never was capable of managing aspects of the kids or schedule beyond executing obvious tasks. So to suddenly put it on him (planning, managing, remembering) would be disastrous for the kids. He doesn’t make his own doctor, dentist, clean clothes, tidy up, sports sign up, remember to get to appts on time, for himself. How is he suddenly going to get it together for dependents after he already consistently failed to do so for years? He’d have to hurry up and grt a new girlfriend who wants to take care of him and everyone, or maybe move his 70 yo mom in w him.

Nice try. Without someone else to do it for him, he'll step up. I know it's considered a truism by most wives that their husbands are helpless but why would they do all the things you accuse them of not being able to do if DWs are doing it for them? Just as, in turn, DWs let DHs handle things like fixing toilets, mowing lawns, changing lightbulbs, lifting heavy things, etc., etc. and pretend to be helpless and incapable of doing those things.

You can rest assured that, without you in the picture they will somehow muddle through. If that same DH now has his kids living with him full time, he will no doubt, (gasp!), figure it out and get it done. To this day I regret letting my ex DW keep our young child at home with her when we split. At the time I thought I was doing the right thing because "a child needs its mother." But in retrospect, it was a huge mistake and our child would have been much better off with me.

Nope, I do all that too. fix appliances, yardwork, mowing, etc. He literally cannot remember what needs to be done if told. And he literally cannot see what needs to be done in the house or yard or when something is broken or needs to be fixed or improved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved out on my DH and only after that, did he agree to therapy. The therapist made it clear without saying so that once one person has already moved out, it's much harder to come back together. And in the end, we did not. Just one anecdote for you.

Agree. It is not an ultimatum. It is just a step to divorce. The guy will love it since all his household and child raising responsibilities went away— mom will take care if that and he can show up for fun dinners and weekend activities—and he can refocus on working late/his career plus dating and acting like a victim of a crazy ex wife. The woman will just keep on running a busy household, raising and parenting her kids and her full time job as well. Oh and will be a secretary for her ex husband’s “Co parenting” schedule.

This is spot on for myself and everyone of my girlfriends. We take on the full mental load of scheduling, school activities, doctor’s appointments, clothing the children, carpool arrangements, school projects, etc....our Exes or STBXs have DCs every other weekend (often canceling)...can barely take them to things like a game or Birthday party....have to text us to see when it is despite it being clearly marked on the calendar. They do not do laundry, feed the kids Pizza or other takeout, do not enforce bedtime and it’s a free for all with the screens. The DCs come home and we get to deal with them being tired and having homework that is not been done. There is only one exception to this I personally know of and that is where the Mother left and moved to Europe. The Dad has an Au Pair and a a Nanny as well as a house cleaner.

Yep and Yep. It's bachelor days plus Disney Dad weekends and dinners out.

So, in other words, you want your exDH to only have his kids a couple of times a month but you want an equal split in childcare responsibilities? How about the kids live with him full time and you get them every other weekend? Seems like things would sort themselves out pretty naturally, don't you think?

In a lot of marriages and then divorces, the husband never was capable of managing aspects of the kids or schedule beyond executing obvious tasks. So to suddenly put it on him (planning, managing, remembering) would be disastrous for the kids. He doesn’t make his own doctor, dentist, clean clothes, tidy up, sports sign up, remember to get to appts on time, for himself. How is he suddenly going to get it together for dependents after he already consistently failed to do so for years? He’d have to hurry up and grt a new girlfriend who wants to take care of him and everyone, or maybe move his 70 yo mom in w him.

Nice try. Without someone else to do it for him, he'll step up. I know it's considered a truism by most wives that their husbands are helpless but why would they do all the things you accuse them of not being able to do if DWs are doing it for them? Just as, in turn, DWs let DHs handle things like fixing toilets, mowing lawns, changing lightbulbs, lifting heavy things, etc., etc. and pretend to be helpless and incapable of doing those things.

You can rest assured that, without you in the picture they will somehow muddle through. If that same DH now has his kids living with him full time, he will no doubt, (gasp!), figure it out and get it done. To this day I regret letting my ex DW keep our young child at home with her when we split. At the time I thought I was doing the right thing because "a child needs its mother." But in retrospect, it was a huge mistake and our child would have been much better off with me.

hahah, not my spouse, This past weekend when it was cold, he went through all his sweaters and came down in some total getup. WHy? Well, all his sweaters had stains on them so he had none to wear.

End of story. No next steps, no action, no cleaning or dry cleaning or stain treating sweaters. just DOA.

Same for parent conferences - late every time or No shows even when I travel. Same for swim sign-up - hours late every time, no lessons left. Same for taking garbage out- misses half the Wednesdays even through he drives past houses and houses w their cans out.

And no, I don't bat clean up for ManChild spouse. His shortcomings actually make him very very angry many days, yet he still won't get help or organizational systems. I have tried and tried, but now just focus on running the household myself to keep me, the house, the yard, the schools, my job, and the kids above water.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved out on my DH and only after that, did he agree to therapy. The therapist made it clear without saying so that once one person has already moved out, it's much harder to come back together. And in the end, we did not. Just one anecdote for you.

Agree. It is not an ultimatum. It is just a step to divorce. The guy will love it since all his household and child raising responsibilities went away— mom will take care if that and he can show up for fun dinners and weekend activities—and he can refocus on working late/his career plus dating and acting like a victim of a crazy ex wife. The woman will just keep on running a busy household, raising and parenting her kids and her full time job as well. Oh and will be a secretary for her ex husband’s “Co parenting” schedule.

This is spot on for myself and everyone of my girlfriends. We take on the full mental load of scheduling, school activities, doctor’s appointments, clothing the children, carpool arrangements, school projects, etc....our Exes or STBXs have DCs every other weekend (often canceling)...can barely take them to things like a game or Birthday party....have to text us to see when it is despite it being clearly marked on the calendar. They do not do laundry, feed the kids Pizza or other takeout, do not enforce bedtime and it’s a free for all with the screens. The DCs come home and we get to deal with them being tired and having homework that is not been done. There is only one exception to this I personally know of and that is where the Mother left and moved to Europe. The Dad has an Au Pair and a a Nanny as well as a house cleaner.

Yep and Yep. It's bachelor days plus Disney Dad weekends and dinners out.

So, in other words, you want your exDH to only have his kids a couple of times a month but you want an equal split in childcare responsibilities? How about the kids live with him full time and you get them every other weekend? Seems like things would sort themselves out pretty naturally, don't you think?

In a lot of marriages and then divorces, the husband never was capable of managing aspects of the kids or schedule beyond executing obvious tasks. So to suddenly put it on him (planning, managing, remembering) would be disastrous for the kids. He doesn’t make his own doctor, dentist, clean clothes, tidy up, sports sign up, remember to get to appts on time, for himself. How is he suddenly going to get it together for dependents after he already consistently failed to do so for years? He’d have to hurry up and grt a new girlfriend who wants to take care of him and everyone, or maybe move his 70 yo mom in w him.

Nice try. Without someone else to do it for him, he'll step up. I know it's considered a truism by most wives that their husbands are helpless but why would they do all the things you accuse them of not being able to do if DWs are doing it for them? Just as, in turn, DWs let DHs handle things like fixing toilets, mowing lawns, changing lightbulbs, lifting heavy things, etc., etc. and pretend to be helpless and incapable of doing those things.

You can rest assured that, without you in the picture they will somehow muddle through. If that same DH now has his kids living with him full time, he will no doubt, (gasp!), figure it out and get it done. To this day I regret letting my ex DW keep our young child at home with her when we split. At the time I thought I was doing the right thing because "a child needs its mother." But in retrospect, it was a huge mistake and our child would have been much better off with me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I moved out on my DH and only after that, did he agree to therapy. The therapist made it clear without saying so that once one person has already moved out, it's much harder to come back together. And in the end, we did not. Just one anecdote for you.

Agree. It is not an ultimatum. It is just a step to divorce. The guy will love it since all his household and child raising responsibilities went away— mom will take care if that and he can show up for fun dinners and weekend activities—and he can refocus on working late/his career plus dating and acting like a victim of a crazy ex wife. The woman will just keep on running a busy household, raising and parenting her kids and her full time job as well. Oh and will be a secretary for her ex husband’s “Co parenting” schedule.

This is spot on for myself and everyone of my girlfriends. We take on the full mental load of scheduling, school activities, doctor’s appointments, clothing the children, carpool arrangements, school projects, etc....our Exes or STBXs have DCs every other weekend (often canceling)...can barely take them to things like a game or Birthday party....have to text us to see when it is despite it being clearly marked on the calendar. They do not do laundry, feed the kids Pizza or other takeout, do not enforce bedtime and it’s a free for all with the screens. The DCs come home and we get to deal with them being tired and having homework that is not been done. There is only one exception to this I personally know of and that is where the Mother left and moved to Europe. The Dad has an Au Pair and a a Nanny as well as a house cleaner.

Yep and Yep. It's bachelor days plus Disney Dad weekends and dinners out.

So, in other words, you want your exDH to only have his kids a couple of times a month but you want an equal split in childcare responsibilities? How about the kids live with him full time and you get them every other weekend? Seems like things would sort themselves out pretty naturally, don't you think?

In a lot of marriages and then divorces, the husband never was capable of managing aspects of the kids or schedule beyond executing obvious tasks. So to suddenly put it on him (planning, managing, remembering) would be disastrous for the kids. He doesn’t make his own doctor, dentist, clean clothes, tidy up, sports sign up, remember to get to appts on time, for himself. How is he suddenly going to get it together for dependents after he already consistently failed to do so for years? He’d have to hurry up and grt a new girlfriend who wants to take care of him and everyone, or maybe move his 70 yo mom in w him.

Unless a man has a disability he is capable of managing all of this. He just doesn’t want to and in the past has had someone who did it for him.

I don’t read anything here that would be disastrous for the kids. Even doctor’s appointments unless the child has a serious medical problem. Not going to the dentist isn’t a big deal. Even clothing. Eventually the man will experience a consequence for not handling his responsibilities and will improve.

I mean who helps the exDH dress himself in clean clothes? I’m guessing no one and he’s able to make it happen. Same with going to the doctor, having a somewhat clean home, etc.

I would divide up the responsibilities and let him pick which ones to do. Doctor, sports, clothing etc. Then completely ignore it going forward.

Seriously you women need to learn how to deal with men. They are very simple.