Of course you should let her go. Its a great time for her to do this. I wouldn't bother with a fake id. She wont need it. Just make sure she knows how to stay safe and what to do if she has any issues (go to the American consulate or embassy - she should take a list if their umbers/locations).

Now, for your own piece of mind, if you want to make sure she understands the bad things out there - make her watch Taken. Just to give her a healthy fear so she doesn't do stupid stuff. Generally though she should be fine.

Anonymous wrote:No to the fake ID, but otherwise I'd be fine with this. I'm from the UK and all my friends and I did this at this age and then throughout college, etc. 8 is a big group, though and that will make the trip harder if they are planning to travel around rather than stay in one place. Most of my trips were in groups of 3 or 4, which worked well. We did one trip as a group of 9 to Italy at the end of high school (so all but 1 was 18) but we stayed in one place and did day trips from there. Actually, we mostly chilled on the beach, then spent every evening having a long dinner followed by bars and clubs and we had the time of our lives. As far as I remember, most of our parents gave us some money towards the trip but we all earned and saved money throughout the year to pay for it.

Editing to add - the fake ID is just not a good idea but she will have no problem going to bars and clubs in most places (though you don't say where they are planning to go - certainly in the UK, France, Italy, Spain, etc she will be fine).

I'm curious how so many of you envision your kids in college.

Will they ask you before they go out of town for weekend? Even tell you?

Will you "allow" a summer internship in a different city where they will have no "group" or supervision?

If they make money at that summer job and decide to pay for their own spring break somewhere, will you try to say they aren't allowed to go?

Will they be allowed to study abroad? If so, will you be banning all the last minute crazy weekend travel that happens when you study abroad?

Some of your reactions seem so out of touch with what a normal college experience should allow for!

No to the fake ID, but otherwise I'd be fine with this. I'm from the UK and all my friends and I did this at this age and then throughout college, etc. 8 is a big group, though and that will make the trip harder if they are planning to travel around rather than stay in one place. Most of my trips were in groups of 3 or 4, which worked well. We did one trip as a group of 9 to Italy at the end of high school (so all but 1 was 18) but we stayed in one place and did day trips from there. Actually, we mostly chilled on the beach, then spent every evening having a long dinner followed by bars and clubs and we had the time of our lives. As far as I remember, most of our parents gave us some money towards the trip but we all earned and saved money throughout the year to pay for it.

Anonymous wrote:My daughter, a HS senior, wants to go to Europe over the summer with 7 other girls--all of them in her class. Has anyone sent their kids on such a trip? What issues did you encounter?

I'm thinking there's bound to be drama between the girls and I wouldn't be surprised for the group to splinter. I'd be fine with a smaller group but I'd also tell her that under no circumstance is she to leave the group to be solo, with another group, with a boy etc. Also, she will be 17 during the trip and most of the others will be 18 so she's requested permission to get a "fake". I don't see the big deal and actually feel she'd be safer with it since she wouldn't be left alone. Do you even need ID in Europe?

Any other thoughts?

Tell them to watch the film HOSTEL.

And I agree, group of 8 is unsustainable. it's hard enough for 3-4 to move around together.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holy crap I can't believe the responses here.

I traveled through Europe after high school graduation, at the age of 17, with a handful of friends. Yes, we drank. No, nothing horrible happened - perhaps in part because in Europe it is NOT AT ALL UNUSUAL for a 17 year old to be traveling by herself / with friends.

I can't believe how ridiculous this board is. Let her be independent. Honestly I can't even imagine telling a 17 year old that under no circumstances is she aloud to "be with a boy". Even traveling alone is a great experience, although I do understand the concerns there, and i didn't travel through Europe alone until I was (gasp!) 18 and finished my freshman year of college.

Anyway, don't let her get a fake ID. That's recipe for trouble. She will have zero problems going anywhere her friends do.

I think I am with you. I was an exchange student in Europe for 2 years in HS starting at 16 and could do pretty much whatever I wanted. It was totally fine. Yeah, I drank but not anymore than most of my friends back in the States, potentially less. Or at least it was more "civilized" having beers at a cafe with friends vs running from the police at house parties. I traveled all over with my friends who were of similar age, nothing bad happened to any of us. Unless there are other red flags with behavior, I think it would be ok. I agree on the fake ID though, it's not needed and could cause problems.

Did you travel in a pack of eight who were newbies to international travel? No, you lived there for two years and had time to learn the ropes, the cultural expectations around things like drinking, language for emergencies, etc. OP is talking about an untenably large group of girls trying to travel around together who will end up being incredibly obvious as naive American kids. You were temporarily a local, PP, doing what local teens did and probably not sticking out like this group of girls will. Not sure why you don't see that big difference between your situation back then and the proposed trip OP's DD wants.

I did travel in large packs with lots of other exchange students, almost all of us new to international travel. We obviously became pros as time went on, but were really green at the onset and stuck out like sore thumbs. We had each other and we figured it out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holy crap I can't believe the responses here.

I traveled through Europe after high school graduation, at the age of 17, with a handful of friends. Yes, we drank. No, nothing horrible happened - perhaps in part because in Europe it is NOT AT ALL UNUSUAL for a 17 year old to be traveling by herself / with friends.

I can't believe how ridiculous this board is. Let her be independent. Honestly I can't even imagine telling a 17 year old that under no circumstances is she aloud to "be with a boy". Even traveling alone is a great experience, although I do understand the concerns there, and i didn't travel through Europe alone until I was (gasp!) 18 and finished my freshman year of college.

Anyway, don't let her get a fake ID. That's recipe for trouble. She will have zero problems going anywhere her friends do.

I think I am with you. I was an exchange student in Europe for 2 years in HS starting at 16 and could do pretty much whatever I wanted. It was totally fine. Yeah, I drank but not anymore than most of my friends back in the States, potentially less. Or at least it was more "civilized" having beers at a cafe with friends vs running from the police at house parties. I traveled all over with my friends who were of similar age, nothing bad happened to any of us. Unless there are other red flags with behavior, I think it would be ok. I agree on the fake ID though, it's not needed and could cause problems.

Did you travel in a pack of eight who were newbies to international travel? No, you lived there for two years and had time to learn the ropes, the cultural expectations around things like drinking, language for emergencies, etc. OP is talking about an untenably large group of girls trying to travel around together who will end up being incredibly obvious as naive American kids. You were temporarily a local, PP, doing what local teens did and probably not sticking out like this group of girls will. Not sure why you don't see that big difference between your situation back then and the proposed trip OP's DD wants.

Anonymous wrote:Holy crap I can't believe the responses here.

I traveled through Europe after high school graduation, at the age of 17, with a handful of friends. Yes, we drank. No, nothing horrible happened - perhaps in part because in Europe it is NOT AT ALL UNUSUAL for a 17 year old to be traveling by herself / with friends.

I can't believe how ridiculous this board is. Let her be independent. Honestly I can't even imagine telling a 17 year old that under no circumstances is she aloud to "be with a boy". Even traveling alone is a great experience, although I do understand the concerns there, and i didn't travel through Europe alone until I was (gasp!) 18 and finished my freshman year of college.

Anyway, don't let her get a fake ID. That's recipe for trouble. She will have zero problems going anywhere her friends do.

I think I am with you. I was an exchange student in Europe for 2 years in HS starting at 16 and could do pretty much whatever I wanted. It was totally fine. Yeah, I drank but not anymore than most of my friends back in the States, potentially less. Or at least it was more "civilized" having beers at a cafe with friends vs running from the police at house parties. I traveled all over with my friends who were of similar age, nothing bad happened to any of us. Unless there are other red flags with behavior, I think it would be ok. I agree on the fake ID though, it's not needed and could cause problems.

I think the biggest problem is the logistics of her only being 17, unlike her friends. A "fake" is really asking for trouble. What if she has a medical emergency? She's not an adult. It's too bad but that's part of being younger than her friends.

Anonymous wrote:PP with family and friends in Europe here. Just adding regarding safety: I know many are posting about how much safer they feel in Europe than in the U.S., and how they were just fine when they did similar trips at similar ages however many years back in the day.

I do agree that overall I feel much safer in many places in Britain and France than in some suburbs here.

But the reality is that in any city or on board any train etc., anywhere, a group of very obviously American girls, focused on each other and on having a good time, is going to attract the attention of pickpockets and thieves at a minimum (and Europe has truly expert pickpockets and bag thieves, believe me).

These girls, if they go, need to be very well versed in how to wear their bags, where to keep passports, cards and cash inside their bags--never, ever in some outside flap, for instance -- and how to deal if they get pickpocketed or robbed or just lose a passport, etc. I know two people whose bags were sliced open from behind, and a hand slipped inside to feel through the contents in just seconds, without their knowledge while the bags were hanging from their shoulders. I'm not mentioning that to be scary, but to note that those types of criminals are there, as are everyday pickpockets. Simply telling these girls, "Watch out for pickpockets" is useless if these kids are not also taught specifically how to protect their stuff and themselves, and how to move through crowded places. That isn't a reason not to go, but I would question whether the large group your DD wants to travel with would really be paying adequate attention to basic safety for bags and passports etc. and...for themselves.

What may be a reason not to go is that despite everyone's belief that crime must be worse here than there, there is serious crime, especially when alcohol gets involved. Of course the link between being drunk and being vulnerable applies here as well. But I sometimes think American tourists believe Europe is some magical kingdom where everything is rose-colored. It does require the same due diligence -- which includes staying sober and having your wits about you -- as anywhere. I would be concerned that a general attitude of "Europe is so much safer" would make parents and these girls a bit too relaxed about safety. I'm no nervous Nellie about these things, but I would not want my own teen DD doing this trip as you depict it.

And by the way, I agree with the poster who noted that if DD thinks a fake ID is OK and is some kind of protection from trouble...she's not mature enough to make this trip. I DO think it's good that she actually told you about the fake ID idea, OP, rather than getting one behind your back! That's positive communication between you. But a fake ID is just a terrible idea on any continent. Including this one.

I'd add -- a big groups of American girls out drinking (which is presumably why your daughter thinks she needs a fake ID) is really going to attract a lot of attention from thieves and other kinds of predators. I agree that some Americans are a little Pollyanna-ish about safety in Europe--there are pickpockets and thieves and plenty of people who are totally willing to take advantage of naive American girls. And if you're in a foreign country, you can't just call home for help--dealing with local police (who may not speak English), knowing what's a scam and how to handle really aggressive panhandlers and when the taxi driver is trying to cheat you, knowing how to contact the embassy, etc., are all things you need to be prepared for. Europe isn't Disneyland.

would you send her to NYC with this group? Could she navigate the subway (which is a completely different world than the dc metro)? Would you both be comfortable whether she were to get off the train in SoHo, Harlem, the Bronx? Would she know what to do if she lost her phone? Lost her wallet? Lost her passport? Lost her group?

If not, wait a couple years.

PP with family and friends in Europe here. Just adding regarding safety: I know many are posting about how much safer they feel in Europe than in the U.S., and how they were just fine when they did similar trips at similar ages however many years back in the day.

I do agree that overall I feel much safer in many places in Britain and France than in some suburbs here.

But the reality is that in any city or on board any train etc., anywhere, a group of very obviously American girls, focused on each other and on having a good time, is going to attract the attention of pickpockets and thieves at a minimum (and Europe has truly expert pickpockets and bag thieves, believe me).

These girls, if they go, need to be very well versed in how to wear their bags, where to keep passports, cards and cash inside their bags--never, ever in some outside flap, for instance -- and how to deal if they get pickpocketed or robbed or just lose a passport, etc. I know two people whose bags were sliced open from behind, and a hand slipped inside to feel through the contents in just seconds, without their knowledge while the bags were hanging from their shoulders. I'm not mentioning that to be scary, but to note that those types of criminals are there, as are everyday pickpockets. Simply telling these girls, "Watch out for pickpockets" is useless if these kids are not also taught specifically how to protect their stuff and themselves, and how to move through crowded places. That isn't a reason not to go, but I would question whether the large group your DD wants to travel with would really be paying adequate attention to basic safety for bags and passports etc. and...for themselves.

What may be a reason not to go is that despite everyone's belief that crime must be worse here than there, there is serious crime, especially when alcohol gets involved. Of course the link between being drunk and being vulnerable applies here as well. But I sometimes think American tourists believe Europe is some magical kingdom where everything is rose-colored. It does require the same due diligence -- which includes staying sober and having your wits about you -- as anywhere. I would be concerned that a general attitude of "Europe is so much safer" would make parents and these girls a bit too relaxed about safety. I'm no nervous Nellie about these things, but I would not want my own teen DD doing this trip as you depict it.

And by the way, I agree with the poster who noted that if DD thinks a fake ID is OK and is some kind of protection from trouble...she's not mature enough to make this trip. I DO think it's good that she actually told you about the fake ID idea, OP, rather than getting one behind your back! That's positive communication between you. But a fake ID is just a terrible idea on any continent. Including this one.

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely not to the fake ID. If she gets caught, it would take a while for the US consulate to extract her from a foreign jail.

But IMO, the fact that she thinks a fake ID is a perfectly fine idea seems like a huge red flag that she isn't mature enough to handle a trip like this.

+1

Also, I agree with the posters who have flagged the size of the group as an issue. It's too big, and there will be divisions and the group will split up at some points. They will not be able to fit in the same cabs/Ubers/train cars, they will not be able to rent a car, they may not all be able to stay in the same hotels, etc. There will be drama, and they will lose track of each other. Not a great situation if you're young and not used to travelling without an adult.

Anonymous wrote:I would say no fake id, and I'd prefer a smaller group because of trying to stay together and travelling but honestly other than that, no.

Cut off, no issue with the age, as long as mature. And being OK with the fact that is a very privileged gift.

I would say no fake id, and I'd prefer a smaller group because of trying to stay together and travelling but honestly other than that, no.