Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these posters saying “I was terrible at math but still got into Yale” are kidding themselves if they think things are the same now. They are definitely not and unless your kid is in the highest or AP math course at school they aren’t getting into Yale or Northwestern or even places like Williams or Bowdoin.

Except I said I had an A- in AP Calc. I think I would still get into Yale today. It’s really hard if you are not naturally good at some subject, but you have to find a way to make yourself good enough until the end of high school. Then it’s possible.

Probably not. Unless you were a kid of a donor or a legacy or a URM. If you are Asian they would toss your application.

If she is a URM or exceptional in a high revenue sport, she will not have a problem. If you have a lot of cash to donate, she may not have a problem.

Otherwise, I suggest that you broaden your horizons. There are tons of great schools out there. The more you focus on a few, the more you and she will feel like a failure when she chooses one of the others. Learn about other schools. Go visit. Oh, and learn math. Anyone can do it, but it is much harder if people treat it like part of their identity than just another subject to learn.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never took either Calc (or Chemistry for that matter ...) in high school, so now I struggle in BigLaw making seven figures. But it is nice to have UVA grads serving me coffee at Starbucks. Coming soon, Pumpkin Spice!

Still stuck in BigLaw are you? Some of us had the guts to get out. People like you who equate money with success suck. Plus you’re boring AF.

— former BigLaw partner

Suck? AF? Non-equity AmLaw 200, tops.

Ha ha. You’re so wrong on all fronts. But tell yourself whatever you want if it makes you feel like a big man!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never took either Calc (or Chemistry for that matter ...) in high school, so now I struggle in BigLaw making seven figures. But it is nice to have UVA grads serving me coffee at Starbucks. Coming soon, Pumpkin Spice!

Still stuck in BigLaw are you? Some of us had the guts to get out. People like you who equate money with success suck. Plus you’re boring AF.

— former BigLaw partner

Suck? AF? Non-equity AmLaw 200, tops.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- I guess I mean Top 50 or so.

Are any of these schools possible?

UVA, UNC, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon, etc?

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Wrong. NOT possible

Anything is possible, dope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- I guess I mean Top 50 or so.

Are any of these schools possible?

UVA, UNC, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon, etc?

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Wrong. NOT possible

Anonymous wrote:OP here- I guess I mean Top 50 or so.

Are any of these schools possible?

UVA, UNC, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon, etc?

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m terrible at math, like still do addition and subtraction on my fingers bad. My high school allowed you to enroll in honors classes if you really wanted to. My middle school teachers didn’t recommend me, but my parents asked the guidance office to give me a chance. My test scores didn’t automatically let me in either. I took 4 years of advanced math and calculus senior year. I honestly had very little idea what was going on, but high school is largerly about effort and with tutoring I was always able to keep an A- average in math. I had near perfect grades in everything else, played 4 sports, and had tons of extracurriculars, and great references.

I got into Yale. My math SAT was on the low end of what they accept, but everything else was on the high end. I did well there and never took another math class. I can still barely balance my check book, but I have a PhD in another field and a lot of professional success.

So, it’s not impossible, but if you have a deficit in one area you have to work harder than everyone else to minimize the impact and you still have to take the hardest level in that area.

You got into Yale a long, long time ago. You would not get in today.

That might be, but it’s not because she isn’t qualified it’s because there are just so many qualified applicants applying to top colleges these days.
A lot of admissions these days honestly might as well be decided by a coin toss.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: I pulled up TJ’s Naviance.

Average for admits only.

CMU: average GPA 4.28/ Average SAT 1536

UVA: 4.31/1535

UNC: 4.27/1532

UCLA: 4.35/1541

JHU: 4.38/1550

Georgetown: 4.28/ 1538

Vandy: 4.31 / 1539

LeHigh: 4.13/ 1511. (#46 on US News)

WM: 4.17/ 1519

VT: 4.16/ 1511


This assumes a very, very rigorous academic load, with math through AP Calc, no academic classes at the school offered below the honors level, and generally 2-3 years of heavy duty academic summer school.

TJ kids will get in with lower GPAs because of the grade deflation. This is especially true for UVA, WM and VT.

The fact is, no one has an easy time getting into a top 50 National University or a top 30 SLAC.

While I agree that the OP is overreaching and that her child has no chance at top schools, TJ’s Naviance data proves nothing. The fact is, virtually every student at TJ has a 1500 on the SAT, so showing that as the average for admitted students at these schools is meaningless. Naviance data for a regular Fairfax County high school for UVA, for example, with no doubt be dramatically different.

Yes— TJ will likely skew high on SATs and low on GPA, they don’t skew that high on SATs. Average SATs are around 1520 most years, but that’s average. If you look at scattergrams, lots of 1570 and higher, and lots on the 1450-1500 range. It’s fair to say most SATs are above 1400. But not all.

For example:

2017-2018 common data set

25%-75% SAT UVA: 1310- 1500
25%-75% SAT CMU: 1430-1560
25%-75% SAT Vandy: 1440-1570

UNCs numbers are meaningless because they take 85% of their kids from in state by law. But conventional wisdom is you need well above 1500 from OOS (my sister is an alum).

TJs SATs are high for UVA, because 350 kids apply, average SAT for the school of 1520.

But outside of that, TJ’s average SATs for admits to top 50 schools are actually within 20-30 points of the 50% mark— and below the 75% mark. TJ has high SATs, but it takes high SATs to get in to these schools.

And realize that the below 25% are going to be 1st gen, URM, legacies and athletes.

If you want to send a kid to UNC, Vandy or CMU who doesn’t make it past pre-Calc and doesn’t take honors math, you are going to need above a 1500 on the SAT.

Forget the top 20 nonsense. Once she has an SAT or ACT score, start looking for schools where she will feel comfortable and be successful while getting a great education. Despite what USNWR would have you believe, there are about 500 colleges that will set you up for a successful career.

OP here. Thanks everyone- this is helpful.
I just want to help adjust our expectations. DH and I went to a top 20 school, but if it's not possible for our DD, I don't want to give her false hopes.

I also want to start researching other schools that are great but maybe don't have such a high math requirement.

This is all new to us, and so different than it was 30 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:In the info session for Pomona, the admission officer was asked this and said that they not admit students who didn't take AP Calc if their school offered it; furthermore, they wanted grades of A's and could make a case for the occasional B, but not a C. Students had to have 4 years of math and they preferred five years (BC or added stats). Kind of surprised us for a liberal arts college - we thought they'd care less about math.

Math is one of the liberal arts. I always wonder why people don't understand this.

Anonymous wrote:OP: I pulled up TJ’s Naviance.

Average for admits only.

CMU: average GPA 4.28/ Average SAT 1536

UVA: 4.31/1535

UNC: 4.27/1532

UCLA: 4.35/1541

JHU: 4.38/1550

Georgetown: 4.28/ 1538

Vandy: 4.31 / 1539

LeHigh: 4.13/ 1511. (#46 on US News)

WM: 4.17/ 1519

VT: 4.16/ 1511


This assumes a very, very rigorous academic load, with math through AP Calc, no academic classes at the school offered below the honors level, and generally 2-3 years of heavy duty academic summer school.

TJ kids will get in with lower GPAs because of the grade deflation. This is especially true for UVA, WM and VT.

The fact is, no one has an easy time getting into a top 50 National University or a top 30 SLAC.

While I agree that the OP is overreaching and that her child has no chance at top schools, TJ’s Naviance data proves nothing. The fact is, virtually every student at TJ has a 1500 on the SAT, so showing that as the average for admitted students at these schools is meaningless. Naviance data for a regular Fairfax County high school for UVA, for example, with no doubt be dramatically different.

OP: I pulled up TJ’s Naviance.

Average for admits only.

CMU: average GPA 4.28/ Average SAT 1536

UVA: 4.31/1535

UNC: 4.27/1532

UCLA: 4.35/1541

JHU: 4.38/1550

Georgetown: 4.28/ 1538

Vandy: 4.31 / 1539

LeHigh: 4.13/ 1511. (#46 on US News)

WM: 4.17/ 1519

VT: 4.16/ 1511


This assumes a very, very rigorous academic load, with math through AP Calc, no academic classes at the school offered below the honors level, and generally 2-3 years of heavy duty academic summer school.

TJ kids will get in with lower GPAs because of the grade deflation. This is especially true for UVA, WM and VT.

The fact is, no one has an easy time getting into a top 50 National University or a top 30 SLAC.

Anonymous wrote:I never took either Calc (or Chemistry for that matter ...) in high school, so now I struggle in BigLaw making seven figures. But it is nice to have UVA grads serving me coffee at Starbucks. Coming soon, Pumpkin Spice!

Still stuck in BigLaw are you? Some of us had the guts to get out. People like you who equate money with success suck. Plus you’re boring AF.

— former BigLaw partner