Lol- we make about 160k (both working) and someday it will be my kids starting a thread like this about how poor they were. I'm not trying to take away anything that you all suffered through as children. Not getting your needs met and having very few, if any, treats is a tough childhood to say the least.
But it will be my kids that say that their vacations to the beach (staying at a Holiday Inn) or to their grandmother's house (that had a pool, so it was like a resort!) were signs of their impoverished youth. No Europe or MV here!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not shocked at what I spend money on, but that I can easily afford every day expenses: new clothes, shoes, field trips, lunch money, etc. I honestly don't even budget for it; if my kids need something they get it. They do not have to find odd jobs, save and scrap to buy school clothes or sports uniform items.

I am so happy to be able to send my son to Peru with his Spanish Club. I so badly wanted to travel with my high school friends, but it was simply too expensive.

Do you worry about what that will do to them though, in terms of learning to provide for themselves? Or are you pretty much setting them up for life financially, so if they aren't able to support themselves, they have a nice little safety net?

We don’t go over the top with what we provide. I just didn’t want them to *have* to get jobs at age 14 in order to afford clothes and school items. My son will be 17 this fall and he wants a job. As long as his grades are good, we will support him in finding a job once winter sports are finished. He can spend and save his money as he wants, rather than having to contribute to family expenses.

I don’t necessarily view these habits you describe as a result of being POOR. I think instead people are extremely wasteful these days and are constantly putting something in their mouth. I grew up UMC with summer trips to Europe, home in a wealthy suburb etc and we rarely purchased drinks or coffees when out. It just wasn’t something you did. I don’t think my parents feel the need to always have a drink or coffee in hand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mainly feel the guilt when I spend money on food & drinks. I always said when I was growing up poor that I wouldn't skimp on nice shoes & clothes when I could afford it. I don't and I feel zero guilt there. However, it's been a process to train myself not to fret over the restaurant prices too much. Mainly because in the back of my mind I'm still thinking "$15 for ONE cheeseburger bought us food for a week when I was a kid!"

I posted in the other thread today that I still can't bring myself to order soda in a restaurant. I always order water or have a cocktail/wine (which again, guilt!).

It also shocks me how every kid gets braces now. I mean, my niece just got stage one at age 8! That was really unheard of when I was growing up as you usually got them in middle school. And, only the rich kids got braces. Everyone I grew up with who was poor and had crooked teeth got adult braces once they had some money! I was lucky enough to have perfectly straight top teeth and only slightly crooked bottom teeth.

Another thing that was hard to get used to was how much vacations cost. It's still hard to wrap my mind around paying $2000+ for a few days at the beach when growing up we had to scrounge and hustle to make our $800 monthly rent.

Same thing with us and vacations.

I haven’t added it up but even just ball parking it, we’ll spend 50k on vacations this year.

That’s actually a splurge I don’t feel bad about - I want to see the world and I want my kids to see it too.

However, they’re not coming from a childhood like mine that will give them the perspective of how fortunate they really are.

They think it’s totally normal to go to Europe, the Caribbean, skiing out West every year...

Kind of a shame. My kid actually asked me if we are poor the other day, lol. (We make over 700k)

+1

My kids think it’s totalky normal to travel like this too. I’m pretty sure 2/3 of their private school class took at least a 7 day trip to Europe this summer if not 2-3 full weeks.

We make that kind of money (750k) and we’re the poor ones because we don’t have a second or third home, a house in the water, a boat, etc.

well, why don't you? with that kind of money you should.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up without heat or hot water. But still, living conditions were much better than when my parents were little. My mom had to economize so creatively most of her life that she never let go of her frugal habits. She'd always save used paper towel to wipe the floor with, or tear a tissue paper in half or third so as not to waste any of it. When she died she left behind half a million dollars.

I live modestly, even though we could afford much better house and cars. Compared to the average American I'm frugal, but whenever I toss a piece of paper towel after a single use I feel a little twinge.

I dry the paper towels before reusing it. If I wipe up some spilled water. I let the paper dry. Next I will use it on something that is really dirty like cleaning burnt out food from the stove or a dirty floor.

We do this if the paper towels aren't particularly dirty. I'm also trying to get used to using cloth napkins for dinner (and reusing my own if not dirty). . .both good for the wallet and the environment, I think, although arguably you're using water more. . . maybe we should start a spinoff frugal thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mainly feel the guilt when I spend money on food & drinks. I always said when I was growing up poor that I wouldn't skimp on nice shoes & clothes when I could afford it. I don't and I feel zero guilt there. However, it's been a process to train myself not to fret over the restaurant prices too much. Mainly because in the back of my mind I'm still thinking "$15 for ONE cheeseburger bought us food for a week when I was a kid!"

I posted in the other thread today that I still can't bring myself to order soda in a restaurant. I always order water or have a cocktail/wine (which again, guilt!).

It also shocks me how every kid gets braces now. I mean, my niece just got stage one at age 8! That was really unheard of when I was growing up as you usually got them in middle school. And, only the rich kids got braces. Everyone I grew up with who was poor and had crooked teeth got adult braces once they had some money! I was lucky enough to have perfectly straight top teeth and only slightly crooked bottom teeth.

Another thing that was hard to get used to was how much vacations cost. It's still hard to wrap my mind around paying $2000+ for a few days at the beach when growing up we had to scrounge and hustle to make our $800 monthly rent.

Same thing with us and vacations.

I haven’t added it up but even just ball parking it, we’ll spend 50k on vacations this year.

That’s actually a splurge I don’t feel bad about - I want to see the world and I want my kids to see it too.

However, they’re not coming from a childhood like mine that will give them the perspective of how fortunate they really are.

They think it’s totally normal to go to Europe, the Caribbean, skiing out West every year...

Kind of a shame. My kid actually asked me if we are poor the other day, lol. (We make over 700k)

+1

My kids think it’s totalky normal to travel like this too. I’m pretty sure 2/3 of their private school class took at least a 7 day trip to Europe this summer if not 2-3 full weeks.

We make that kind of money (750k) and we’re the poor ones because we don’t have a second or third home, a house in the water, a boat, etc.

My husband grew up poor, really poor, as in no indoor plumbing, no TV, never ate out or went on vacation, no birthday celebrations as they couldn't afford cake or present. He is amazed by most of our lifestyle and thinks we are incredibly rich. We are UMC.
He loves to shop, especially at Xmas. Getting him to stop is sometimes a problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not shocked at what I spend money on, but that I can easily afford every day expenses: new clothes, shoes, field trips, lunch money, etc. I honestly don't even budget for it; if my kids need something they get it. They do not have to find odd jobs, save and scrap to buy school clothes or sports uniform items.

I am so happy to be able to send my son to Peru with his Spanish Club. I so badly wanted to travel with my high school friends, but it was simply too expensive.

Do you worry about what that will do to them though, in terms of learning to provide for themselves? Or are you pretty much setting them up for life financially, so if they aren't able to support themselves, they have a nice little safety net?

Not that PP, but buying kids what they need is very different than making sure they know how to provide for themselves as an adult. My parents did not always supply my needs. I had three pairs of shoes all of HS. I often walked 90 min or more to save the bus fare. So when it rained or snowed, I had to wrap trash bags around my feet. This caused me a lot of anxiety and distracted me from school work.

I should clarify that I had the exact same three pairs all 4 years. My mom bought them the summer before freshman year, told me that your feet don’t grow after your first period, and that was that.

Anonymous wrote:Yes!!

I was solidly middle class, but my mother was extremely frugal. When the good humor truck came, she would run inside to give us the Giant store popsicles in the freezer. She watered down the Kool-Aid to make it last longer (so much healthier). We had lots of generic brand labels. I wouldn't get the LL Bean boots, but some generic pair at Marshalls.

I try to not spoil my kids. But, yes, I do exactly that---don't think about things like a vending machine purchase, etc.

My siblings and I also never had braces. Thankfully, our teeth weren't too jacked up. But, my kid whose teeth are better than mine is getting them next month.

We live in a walkable neighborhood so we eat several time times per week. The one big family trip to the restaurant was a big deal. And, we eat out at high end places. My kids will name restaurants that you would not expect a 10 or 12-year old to know or like.

I draw the line at things like giving young kids/tweens iphones, etc. They can have a cast-off phone of ours when I feel they are of age. They have jars they keep their $ and my oldest started mowing neighbor's lawns for $ (at least the 1 or 2 families that also don't have a lawn service).

We live in a very wealthy neighborhood now and the kids get everything without having to do a thing for it. Even though we can afford it, my husband (who grew up poor) and I won't do that. They are learning a work ethic.

Similar here. I grew up middle class, and my mother ran a food-co-op where people would purchase in bulk to save money. (I still have a huge freezer - if you go to the Giant to pick up chicken breasts because they are on sale, and found that someone cleaned them out, it was probably me). My mother watered down dish soap to make it last longer. We eat out far more than I did as a kid, and my daughter has been to restaurants I didn't go to until I got my first job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not shocked at what I spend money on, but that I can easily afford every day expenses: new clothes, shoes, field trips, lunch money, etc. I honestly don't even budget for it; if my kids need something they get it. They do not have to find odd jobs, save and scrap to buy school clothes or sports uniform items.

I am so happy to be able to send my son to Peru with his Spanish Club. I so badly wanted to travel with my high school friends, but it was simply too expensive.

Do you worry about what that will do to them though, in terms of learning to provide for themselves? Or are you pretty much setting them up for life financially, so if they aren't able to support themselves, they have a nice little safety net?

Not that PP, but buying kids what they need is very different than making sure they know how to provide for themselves as an adult. My parents did not always supply my needs. I had three pairs of shoes all of HS. I often walked 90 min or more to save the bus fare. So when it rained or snowed, I had to wrap trash bags around my feet. This caused me a lot of anxiety and distracted me from school work.

Anonymous wrote:Yes.

I grew up poor...4 girls to a tiny room in a tiny one bathroom leaky moldy house.

I cried when we purchased our first house because it was so nice compared to what I grew up in.

Eating out, school shopping, vacations, stuff, all so much more than I could have ever imagined.

I worry about my kids living such a comfortable life, particularly my younger two. The older kid is more aware of our blessings but the other two just take it for granted as this is how "everyone" they know lives. My husband grew up as upper middle class, so to him this is just normal lifestyle too.

They are are always a bit jolted when we visit my family and they see how their cousins (on my side) live.

It's like you are describing me, PP. I also grew up in a house that should probably have been condemned and had a horrible rodent and roach problem, although we had a luxury of two bedrooms to go with our one bathroom. We got by on food stamps and food pantries, and toward the end of the month when the cupboards were bare my mom would send us to our friends' houses at dinnertime in the hopes they would feed us. I also cried when I bought our house in Chevy Chase because I couldn't believe how much better my kids' life would be.

I talk about it a lot to my kids, but they still just can't really get it. When I was a kid, our vacations were only going to my grandparents' house, a five-hour drive where multiple times we had our car break down en route because it was not in good enough shape to make the whole trip. One time when I was about 7 my cousins took me with them to the beach, and it was the only time until I was an adult that I saw the ocean. Flash forward to now, I just took my kids on a two-week vacation where they saw two shows on Broadway and spent a week on Martha's Vineyard in a fancy house with a pool where they had a blast, among many other fun outings. They threw temper tantrums in the car on the way home because I wouldn't take them to a water park as planned because it was raining. And I was really depressed and thinking I'm failing them that they don't get what they have. I tried to explain it to them, but they have no frame of reference since everyone they know lives that way.

And then I question whether my kids really do have it better.

Anonymous wrote:I mainly feel the guilt when I spend money on food & drinks. I always said when I was growing up poor that I wouldn't skimp on nice shoes & clothes when I could afford it. I don't and I feel zero guilt there. However, it's been a process to train myself not to fret over the restaurant prices too much. Mainly because in the back of my mind I'm still thinking "$15 for ONE cheeseburger bought us food for a week when I was a kid!"

I posted in the other thread today that I still can't bring myself to order soda in a restaurant. I always order water or have a cocktail/wine (which again, guilt!).

It also shocks me how every kid gets braces now. I mean, my niece just got stage one at age 8! That was really unheard of when I was growing up as you usually got them in middle school. And, only the rich kids got braces. Everyone I grew up with who was poor and had crooked teeth got adult braces once they had some money! I was lucky enough to have perfectly straight top teeth and only slightly crooked bottom teeth.

Another thing that was hard to get used to was how much vacations cost. It's still hard to wrap my mind around paying $2000+ for a few days at the beach when growing up we had to scrounge and hustle to make our $800 monthly rent.

Same thing with us and vacations.

I haven’t added it up but even just ball parking it, we’ll spend 50k on vacations this year.

That’s actually a splurge I don’t feel bad about - I want to see the world and I want my kids to see it too.

However, they’re not coming from a childhood like mine that will give them the perspective of how fortunate they really are.

They think it’s totally normal to go to Europe, the Caribbean, skiing out West every year...

Kind of a shame. My kid actually asked me if we are poor the other day, lol. (We make over 700k)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, though for me, it’s mostly labor/time-savers and vacations. I’m finally at the point that paying to have someone clean my home before a party is palatable. And I can go on vacation without calculating how many hours I need to work overtime to pay for it.

It's the labor savers that highlight how different I am from my parents. My parents would never have spent money on house cleaners, lawn mowing, grocery delivery, etc.

This is a new thing though. I grew up in an upper middle class area where most dads were CPAs, engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc and they ALL still mowed their lawn. Our house was set on 1.5 areas too and my dad was out there twice a week like clockwork. Now it seems like even middle class neighborhoods are all mowed by companies.

This is a good point...I don't know anyone in my neighborhood that mows their own lawn but it seemed like everyone mowed their own lawn when I was growing up.

Not everyone did growing up. I made decent money as a middle schooler mowing lawns

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, though for me, it’s mostly labor/time-savers and vacations. I’m finally at the point that paying to have someone clean my home before a party is palatable. And I can go on vacation without calculating how many hours I need to work overtime to pay for it.

It's the labor savers that highlight how different I am from my parents. My parents would never have spent money on house cleaners, lawn mowing, grocery delivery, etc.

This is a new thing though. I grew up in an upper middle class area where most dads were CPAs, engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc and they ALL still mowed their lawn. Our house was set on 1.5 areas too and my dad was out there twice a week like clockwork. Now it seems like even middle class neighborhoods are all mowed by companies.

I still can't do it. I am squarely UMC, and I am the only person on our block, and the only person I know, who mows his own lawn. I once mentioned to a neighbor that my daughter is getting old enough to use the mower, and she looked at me like I had horns and a tail. As if a *girl* could be expected to mow the lawn - the horror!

Oh, and another thing that shocks me is how late in life my kids learned about money & how much things cost. Obviously yes, they learned about money and counting money in school. But putting two + two together on how much items cost didn't come until they were in middle school, probably.

I knew how much things cost from a very young age and I knew to always pick the cheapest option.