Anonymous
08/23/2018 11:29
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Someone on another thread suggested that it takes $10 million a year to be upper class, implying that someone earning $5 million a year is merely upper-middle. This speaks to the skewed perspective of DCUM posters, and I thought it would interesting to inject a dose of reality. The following is how I would describe a few tyoical distinctions of an upper-middle lifestyle (that approximately 15% of the population enjoy) versus the middle-class lifestyle (that about 50% of the population lives).
Upper-middle class:
1) Housing: A 2500+ SF single-family house in the suburbs, or an upscale townhouse or condo (or luxury apartment) in an affluent suburbs or the city proper (think Berhesda, McLean, DC)
2) Vacations: a 2-week luxury cruise to the Baltics, a winter ski trip, or a few trips to the (owned) beach condo or house
3) Entertainment: dinner at the Capital Grille, Kennedy Center opera or ballet, club-level seats at the Nationals
4) Education: Public school in a better-rated district or private
Middle-class:
1) Housing: An older house of less than 2500 sf in the suburbs, a townhouse, or an apartment in the suburbs (think Gaithersburg, Silver Spring, Rockville)
2) Vacations: a 1-week cruise to the Caribbean, a 4-day trip trip to Disneyworld, or a week in a beach rental
3) Entertsinment: Dinner at Outback, the movies, regular,stadium seating at the ballpark
4) Education: Public school
Besides the fact that this thread is inherently stupid (I cannot believe I wasted my brain cells to read this)...This is age dependent.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 11:29
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
Come on. On $750k income you COULD have things. You could definitely have a boat, a second home. Heck you could give your kids $2K a month in spending money in college without a problem.
Let's say you have 2 kids. That's $48K a year in cash. Make that $100K in pre-tax income that you're handing out to them. You could easily (as in not skipping a beat) live on a $650K salary.
You just choose not to.
Taxes dumbass.
The PP pay at least 40% if not more.
Why are you so rude?? Of course they pay taxes. So they give their kids $48K in spending money. That takes $100K in income.
They now starting from a f-ing $650K income.
That still puts them in the top 1% of incomes. I think they'll survive and still live a lovely upper-middle class lifestyle---even in DC.
Let's say they pay 40% in taxes off that $650K. That gives them 390 thousand dollars in cash to live on each year in DC.
They can live a lovely lifestyle on that, complete with MANY splurges.
seriously -- our gross HHI is 105k. I don't even want to sit here and calculate our net after taxes....
Anonymous
08/23/2018 11:28
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
The idiots on this board ...
Anonymous
08/23/2018 11:04
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
Come on. On $750k income you COULD have things. You could definitely have a boat, a second home. Heck you could give your kids $2K a month in spending money in college without a problem.
Let's say you have 2 kids. That's $48K a year in cash. Make that $100K in pre-tax income that you're handing out to them. You could easily (as in not skipping a beat) live on a $650K salary.
You just choose not to.
Taxes dumbass.
The PP pay at least 40% if not more.
Why are you so rude?? Of course they pay taxes. So they give their kids $48K in spending money. That takes $100K in income.
They now starting from a f-ing $650K income.
That still puts them in the top 1% of incomes. I think they'll survive and still live a lovely upper-middle class lifestyle---even in DC.
Let's say they pay 40% in taxes off that $650K. That gives them 390 thousand dollars in cash to live on each year in DC.
They can live a lovely lifestyle on that, complete with MANY splurges.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:54
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
$750k is NOT middle class. You're qualifiers - hey, our kids won't get $60k cars, no inheritance, and we don't have a boat - doesn't mean you are middle class. You are in the too fraction of 1%, with private schools and annual trips to Europe.looking to multimillionaires with third homes and co aren't yourself to them still doesn't make you middle class.
Duh. I said "compared to the private school crowd of inherited family wealth" we're middle class.
I know we're not middle class in an objective sense.
I realize it's crazy that our kids wonder if we're the poor ones but that's the wealth gap in this country for you. There's the .1% and then there's EVERYBODY ELSE living on scraps.
New Poster. I agree with what you are saying. Basically someone could be living an extremely lavish life with a HHI of under $100k if they have family money. But b/c you don't have family money you would fall into the more responsible camp.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:33
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
Come on. On $750k income you COULD have things. You could definitely have a boat, a second home. Heck you could give your kids $2K a month in spending money in college without a problem.
Let's say you have 2 kids. That's $48K a year in cash. Make that $100K in pre-tax income that you're handing out to them. You could easily (as in not skipping a beat) live on a $650K salary.
You just choose not to.
Taxes dumbass.
The PP pay at least 40% if not more.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:33
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:In societies that are more class-bound, there is little anxiety about social status because you are stuck wherever you were born. No matter how you act, you are always defined by where in the pecking order by your grandparents and great-grandparents. There is no need to talk about it because it is a given. There's no moral failure to being a part of a lower class, just bad luck.
In contrast, the American narrative/story/myth of being class-less results in many people being unsure of their place on the ladder. Not too long ago (and maybe still) every white American -- no matter how ill-mannered, uneducated, or poor -- could always claim their whiteness to feel they were better than every person of color. Coupled with the meritocratic ideal, not being better positioned has become a sign of failure to be smart enough or good enough to make it. Some people comfort themselves by making sure the folks they think are below them stay there or want to turn the clock back to when their attributes might have been better valued. More obsess over which watch or car or other consumer good to buy to signal their rightful position or their aspiration.
An old fashioned Marxist would just ask your relationship to the means of production. Do you own the factory? Do you have to sell your labor?
smartest comment on this thread.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:28
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
$750k is NOT middle class. You're qualifiers - hey, our kids won't get $60k cars, no inheritance, and we don't have a boat - doesn't mean you are middle class. You are in the too fraction of 1%, with private schools and annual trips to Europe.looking to multimillionaires with third homes and co aren't yourself to them still doesn't make you middle class.
Right. Comparing upwards is not how it works. You are better off than at least 95% of Americans so there is no way that you are "middle class."
I SAID that I understand why the people in OP's situation feel the way they feel.
You compare yourself to your surroundings. That's it. I know we're not actually middle class.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:27
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
$750k is NOT middle class. You're qualifiers - hey, our kids won't get $60k cars, no inheritance, and we don't have a boat - doesn't mean you are middle class. You are in the too fraction of 1%, with private schools and annual trips to Europe.looking to multimillionaires with third homes and co aren't yourself to them still doesn't make you middle class.
Right. Comparing upwards is not how it works. You are better off than at least 95% of Americans so there is no way that you are "middle class."
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:27
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
$750k is NOT middle class. You're qualifiers - hey, our kids won't get $60k cars, no inheritance, and we don't have a boat - doesn't mean you are middle class. You are in the too fraction of 1%, with private schools and annual trips to Europe.looking to multimillionaires with third homes and co aren't yourself to them still doesn't make you middle class.
Duh. I said "compared to the private school crowd of inherited family wealth" we're middle class.
I know we're not middle class in an objective sense.
I realize it's crazy that our kids wonder if we're the poor ones but that's the wealth gap in this country for you. There's the .1% and then there's EVERYBODY ELSE living on scraps.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:24
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
In societies that are more class-bound, there is little anxiety about social status because you are stuck wherever you were born. No matter how you act, you are always defined by where in the pecking order by your grandparents and great-grandparents. There is no need to talk about it because it is a given. There's no moral failure to being a part of a lower class, just bad luck.
In contrast, the American narrative/story/myth of being class-less results in many people being unsure of their place on the ladder. Not too long ago (and maybe still) every white American -- no matter how ill-mannered, uneducated, or poor -- could always claim their whiteness to feel they were better than every person of color. Coupled with the meritocratic ideal, not being better positioned has become a sign of failure to be smart enough or good enough to make it. Some people comfort themselves by making sure the folks they think are below them stay there or want to turn the clock back to when their attributes might have been better valued. More obsess over which watch or car or other consumer good to buy to signal their rightful position or their aspiration.
An old fashioned Marxist would just ask your relationship to the means of production. Do you own the factory? Do you have to sell your labor?
In contrast, the American narrative/story/myth of being class-less results in many people being unsure of their place on the ladder. Not too long ago (and maybe still) every white American -- no matter how ill-mannered, uneducated, or poor -- could always claim their whiteness to feel they were better than every person of color. Coupled with the meritocratic ideal, not being better positioned has become a sign of failure to be smart enough or good enough to make it. Some people comfort themselves by making sure the folks they think are below them stay there or want to turn the clock back to when their attributes might have been better valued. More obsess over which watch or car or other consumer good to buy to signal their rightful position or their aspiration.
An old fashioned Marxist would just ask your relationship to the means of production. Do you own the factory? Do you have to sell your labor?
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:21
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
$750k is NOT middle class. You're qualifiers - hey, our kids won't get $60k cars, no inheritance, and we don't have a boat - doesn't mean you are middle class. You are in the too fraction of 1%, with private schools and annual trips to Europe.looking to multimillionaires with third homes and co aren't yourself to them still doesn't make you middle class.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:19
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
Come on. On $750k income you COULD have things. You could definitely have a boat, a second home. Heck you could give your kids $2K a month in spending money in college without a problem.
Let's say you have 2 kids. That's $48K a year in cash. Make that $100K in pre-tax income that you're handing out to them. You could easily (as in not skipping a beat) live on a $650K salary.
You just choose not to.
We have three. And we pay half our income to the state and federal government don't forget.
To be "responsible" and save the way we should be for retirement, we can't afford those things, no.
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:16
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
If you're not hereditary upper class, will you be UMC regardless of your income? Is there an upper class in the US?
I mean, we clearly fit in the middle class by the list here on our $250K HHI, but so do my friends that clear less than $100K a year.
Are these designations class designations or income designations? And who gets to decide?
I mean, we clearly fit in the middle class by the list here on our $250K HHI, but so do my friends that clear less than $100K a year.
Are these designations class designations or income designations? And who gets to decide?
Anonymous
08/23/2018 10:14
Subject: Upper-Middle Class vs Middle-Class Lifestyles
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Crazy
All subjective
Why do you care?
Because it bugs me when people go to Europe on vacation, have their kids in private, and then cry that they're middle class.
We're middle class in the sense that we don't have any family money or inherited wealth. So while we make a decent income (750k) and have some nice things that you mentioned (like the house in a "nice" suburb and the annual trips to Europe and the Caribbean and so on), we don't have the "things" that other private school parents have. Namely boats, second (or third) homes, exclusive country club memberships, etc.
Our kids aren't going to get a 60k car when they turn 16.
We'll pay for college but we're not going to be able to give them 2k a month in spending money. Things like that.
Compared to them, we are middle class.
Come on. On $750k income you COULD have things. You could definitely have a boat, a second home. Heck you could give your kids $2K a month in spending money in college without a problem.
Let's say you have 2 kids. That's $48K a year in cash. Make that $100K in pre-tax income that you're handing out to them. You could easily (as in not skipping a beat) live on a $650K salary.
You just choose not to.