Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A teacher's job is to teach and correct and mark work. Work produced for a course is looked at differently than through a parent's eye. If the teacher never gave any feedback and always just said that everything was amazing, there would be no learning or growth.

I understand you are upset but consider the context - it was in a class. It wasn't criticism, it was evaluation of work.

Rather than seeing it as a negative about the teacher, use it as an opportunity to teach your son about how things are appreciated and perceived differently in different contexts. That something can be beautiful to you but be messy to an art teacher who is looking for skill and execution.

NP. I get this. Well said. Its a point that Op probably didn't consider. But, sometimes I find that some teachers are very mechanical in their delivery and forget about the hours, days, or weeks that they saw a child working on an assignment. Particularly, those kids that they know were trying really hard. They deliver their critique matter-of-factly and forget that they are dealing with young, impressionable kids they take every word that they say to heart.

DP I struggle to understand why ANY criticism could be appropriate for a KINDERGARTENER's self portrait. Who the f*ck are you people?!

Anal retentive, nasty people who couldn’t hack go anything else so they are inflicting their incompetent angry selves on young children as their ‘art teachers’.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A teacher's job is to teach and correct and mark work. Work produced for a course is looked at differently than through a parent's eye. If the teacher never gave any feedback and always just said that everything was amazing, there would be no learning or growth.

I understand you are upset but consider the context - it was in a class. It wasn't criticism, it was evaluation of work.

Rather than seeing it as a negative about the teacher, use it as an opportunity to teach your son about how things are appreciated and perceived differently in different contexts. That something can be beautiful to you but be messy to an art teacher who is looking for skill and execution.

NP. I get this. Well said. Its a point that Op probably didn't consider. But, sometimes I find that some teachers are very mechanical in their delivery and forget about the hours, days, or weeks that they saw a child working on an assignment. Particularly, those kids that they know were trying really hard. They deliver their critique matter-of-factly and forget that they are dealing with young, impressionable kids they take every word that they say to heart.

DP I struggle to understand why ANY criticism could be appropriate for a KINDERGARTENER's self portrait. Who the f*ck are you people?!

Anonymous wrote:A teacher's job is to teach and correct and mark work. Work produced for a course is looked at differently than through a parent's eye. If the teacher never gave any feedback and always just said that everything was amazing, there would be no learning or growth.

I understand you are upset but consider the context - it was in a class. It wasn't criticism, it was evaluation of work.

Rather than seeing it as a negative about the teacher, use it as an opportunity to teach your son about how things are appreciated and perceived differently in different contexts. That something can be beautiful to you but be messy to an art teacher who is looking for skill and execution.

NP. I get this. Well said. Its a point that Op probably didn't consider. But, sometimes I find that some teachers are very mechanical in their delivery and forget about the hours, days, or weeks that they saw a child working on an assignment. Particularly, those kids that they know were trying really hard. They deliver their critique matter-of-factly and forget that they are dealing with young, impressionable kids they take every word that they say to heart.

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget OP, your child is remembering a conversation that happened 3 years ago when he was 5. It obviously upset him but he may not have an accurate recall of what exactly was said.

OP here- I did want to respond to a couple of points that have been raised.

I tried to convince myself that my son mis-remembered the conversation. But he is one of those kids who can report dialog verbatim from several years ago, he has that memory. He has relatively recently become more able to verbalize more complex emotions such as embarrassment and shame instead of melting down.

For the teacher who thinks I only want smiley faces- My goal for him is to always grow, but I refuse to crush his soul while challenging him. Believe me when I say that he is aware of all of his limitations and is struggling every day to make progress. And it is uneven and messy just like every human being.

My message to the specials teachers remains- please be thoughtful when you engage with the children as they take your words to heart and give them such power. I know your jobs are hard, but consider your goals when you provide feedback. These are such little people and killing their joy in art and music at a young age seems heartless. That applies to all children, but perhaps especially so for kids with special needs where this art may be their outlet. They will have years to take classes where they are expected to master precise art skills.

Thank you to all of the good teachers, sped teachers, and para's out there who keep fighting for our kids.

Anonymous wrote:A teacher's job is to teach and correct and mark work. Work produced for a course is looked at differently than through a parent's eye. If the teacher never gave any feedback and always just said that everything was amazing, there would be no learning or growth.

I understand you are upset but consider the context - it was in a class. It wasn't criticism, it was evaluation of work.

Rather than seeing it as a negative about the teacher, use it as an opportunity to teach your son about how things are appreciated and perceived differently in different contexts. That something can be beautiful to you but be messy to an art teacher who is looking for skill and execution.

All of this is bullsh$t. The child was in KINDERGARTEN. Kindergarten. Let that sink in. There isn't anything in the "art rubric" where children at 5 years of age have skill and execution at art. He dripped paint on his shirt and she was "disappointed." OMIGOD. And it wasn't a "class in art" as in the child was taking an art class at 12 years old about how to make use of light and shadow, or achieving perspective by using specific skill sets, etc. He was in KINDERGARTEN - this was one of the "specials" in his school.

I'm so upset now, not only about OP's poor child BUT ALSO about this PP's statement. I hope you aren't an art or music teacher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

The thing is, we are talking about art class. Not science. Not math. Not even music. Art.

I am artistic. Very artistic. My family has many creative and artistic people in our lineage.

The purpose of art is to inspire creativity and to tap into the emotional side of the brain. It is to release inhibitions and to help you to think out of the box.

There is no right or wrong way to create

Yes, there are specific techniques to help you to become a better artist, but at its core, art is about an individual creating what is inspired by his or her soul.

Even an ugly, unbalanced, clashing piece of art can inspire emotion or become a classic. Look at Picasso. Look at Matisse.

Discouraging an elementary kid from creating his version of art by offering only or mostly criticism runs counter to the whole purpose and meaning of art.

Any art teacher worth their salt should know this before they step foot into an elementary classroom.

That's an interesting perspective. Where I live there are art courses and classes and you can even do a fine arts degree at college. Even in high school we had art classes where art was taught and marked and seen as a skill that would be developed or improved. That is different from art you do on your own for your own enjoyment or self expression. There are many art critics in the world as well - art is not just everybody's is always awesome. It is hard work to get your art into a gallery or a show - the artists I know would not agree that there is no learning in art.

I think that if you actually know any artists, they would agree with everything I wrote.

DP. My sister is an artist and she agrees with you - especially when my kids were younger. She repeatedly said stuff like, '...don't want to inhibit their creative processes' and 'they need to explore their artistry'. She LOVED what my then 6yo DS with his self-portrait - he had no head or neck, just a round circle with eyes at the top and arms/legs coming out of it. I'm sure many of you will remember those immature drawings. My DS (my youngest) is now 12 and she's just as encouraging even though she will ask, 'have you considered.....' but only while the work is in progress. Once it's finished, she'll ask the kids' thoughts on their work, what they like, if there's anything they don't like, did it turn out as expected/hoped, etc. it's all about how that kid feels about his/her art and what they want from it.

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

These are not mutually exclusive goals.

Happy face. Superstar.
Glad you are a former teacher.

--parent

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

The thing is, we are talking about art class. Not science. Not math. Not even music. Art.

I am artistic. Very artistic. My family has many creative and artistic people in our lineage.

The purpose of art is to inspire creativity and to tap into the emotional side of the brain. It is to release inhibitions and to help you to think out of the box.

There is no right or wrong way to create

Yes, there are specific techniques to help you to become a better artist, but at its core, art is about an individual creating what is inspired by his or her soul.

Even an ugly, unbalanced, clashing piece of art can inspire emotion or become a classic. Look at Picasso. Look at Matisse.

Discouraging an elementary kid from creating his version of art by offering only or mostly criticism runs counter to the whole purpose and meaning of art.

Any art teacher worth their salt should know this before they step foot into an elementary classroom.

That's an interesting perspective. Where I live there are art courses and classes and you can even do a fine arts degree at college. Even in high school we had art classes where art was taught and marked and seen as a skill that would be developed or improved. That is different from art you do on your own for your own enjoyment or self expression. There are many art critics in the world as well - art is not just everybody's is always awesome. It is hard work to get your art into a gallery or a show - the artists I know would not agree that there is no learning in art.

I think that if you actually know any artists, they would agree with everything I wrote.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

The thing is, we are talking about art class. Not science. Not math. Not even music. Art.

I am artistic. Very artistic. My family has many creative and artistic people in our lineage.

The purpose of art is to inspire creativity and to tap into the emotional side of the brain. It is to release inhibitions and to help you to think out of the box.

There is no right or wrong way to create

Yes, there are specific techniques to help you to become a better artist, but at its core, art is about an individual creating what is inspired by his or her soul.

Even an ugly, unbalanced, clashing piece of art can inspire emotion or become a classic. Look at Picasso. Look at Matisse.

Discouraging an elementary kid from creating his version of art by offering only or mostly criticism runs counter to the whole purpose and meaning of art.

Any art teacher worth their salt should know this before they step foot into an elementary classroom.

That's an interesting perspective. Where I live there are art courses and classes and you can even do a fine arts degree at college. Even in high school we had art classes where art was taught and marked and seen as a skill that would be developed or improved. That is different from art you do on your own for your own enjoyment or self expression. There are many art critics in the world as well - art is not just everybody's is always awesome. It is hard work to get your art into a gallery or a show - the artists I know would not agree that there is no learning in art.

Please highlight in my post where I said there is no learning in art.

Anonymous wrote:This has turned into a depressing thread.

So when you are trying to get adults to master a skill and you need to provide feedback you use what I call a feedback sandwich. Share something positive followed by a specific suggestion for improvement and then completed with an expression of appreciation of current effort and faith that the next effort will be even better. You would never criticize someone’s work in front of a class because that would gut their motivation to improve.

So why is the expectation different for teachers of children?

Or are the people responding just the terrible teachers? Maybe the good teachers are the silent majority.

And finally people- this is kindergarten art. I think the skills include not eating paste, or painting your friends on purpose and maybe cleaning up as a team.

Did you read ALL the responses?

This has turned into a depressing thread.

So when you are trying to get adults to master a skill and you need to provide feedback you use what I call a feedback sandwich. Share something positive followed by a specific suggestion for improvement and then completed with an expression of appreciation of current effort and faith that the next effort will be even better. You would never criticize someone’s work in front of a class because that would gut their motivation to improve.

So why is the expectation different for teachers of children?

Or are the people responding just the terrible teachers? Maybe the good teachers are the silent majority.

And finally people- this is kindergarten art. I think the skills include not eating paste, or painting your friends on purpose and maybe cleaning up as a team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

The thing is, we are talking about art class. Not science. Not math. Not even music. Art.

I am artistic. Very artistic. My family has many creative and artistic people in our lineage.

The purpose of art is to inspire creativity and to tap into the emotional side of the brain. It is to release inhibitions and to help you to think out of the box.

There is no right or wrong way to create

Yes, there are specific techniques to help you to become a better artist, but at its core, art is about an individual creating what is inspired by his or her soul.

Even an ugly, unbalanced, clashing piece of art can inspire emotion or become a classic. Look at Picasso. Look at Matisse.

Discouraging an elementary kid from creating his version of art by offering only or mostly criticism runs counter to the whole purpose and meaning of art.

Any art teacher worth their salt should know this before they step foot into an elementary classroom.

That's an interesting perspective. Where I live there are art courses and classes and you can even do a fine arts degree at college. Even in high school we had art classes where art was taught and marked and seen as a skill that would be developed or improved. That is different from art you do on your own for your own enjoyment or self expression. There are many art critics in the world as well - art is not just everybody's is always awesome. It is hard work to get your art into a gallery or a show - the artists I know would not agree that there is no learning in art.

It is amazing what impact all teachers can have. I'm in my 40s and I can tell you exactly how I felt when my 7th grade art teach made fun of drawing I made of a face. She used it as an example of what not to do, "and you DON'T make the eyelashes look like sticks."

She wasn't wrong, but I never took another non-mandatory art class after that.

Don't forget OP, your child is remembering a conversation that happened 3 years ago when he was 5. It obviously upset him but he may not have an accurate recall of what exactly was said.

OP's art teacher sounds like my DS's art teacher. She is an incredible artist but has no patience for children with special needs. She finds them too wiggly, too messy, too unpredictable and thinks they are not following directions when they just can't do what she commands. Like not spilling a drop of paint accidentally on a self-portrait. She then gives them Bs, starting in K, and tells them they are failures at art.

She has sapped almost all the love of art from my child with dysgraphia. I think she should quit teaching at a public school and go teach at an art studio where she can have more control. I'm so depressed just thinking there are lots of these teachers out there.