Anonymous
08/16/2018 08:15
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m in a very similar boat. My youngest is scheduled for First Communion this year and I think I may delay the decision for a head to allow her to have the experience her siblings did as well as to give her the option to return to the church in the future. It’s a very difficult decision for me—1) my family was very devout and I feel that I am betraying them, plus 2) there are many aspects of the faith that I really appreciate.
Also, I 100% disagree with the person who said that anyone raised in the church was aware this was going on. My family has been very active in the church and we’ve never had any experience remotely like this with any priest, or even got a creepy vibe or anything. For us, a “bad” priest was one who gave too long a sermon or too much penance at confession! Also, as a lawyer, I’m pretty aware that a disturbingly large percentage of the male population is just totally messed up when it comes to sex/respect/etc., so I agree that this is not just a catholic issue. I wish the church had let women into the hierarchy decades ago.
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1) this guilt-tripping is how the church keeps people coming
2) those can be found in other churches - like Episcopal or Lutheran
Anonymous
08/15/2018 17:08
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
OP, I’m in a very similar boat. My youngest is scheduled for First Communion this year and I think I may delay the decision for a head to allow her to have the experience her siblings did as well as to give her the option to return to the church in the future. It’s a very difficult decision for me—my family was very devout and I feel that I am betraying them, plus there are many aspects of the faith that I really appreciate.
Also, I 100% disagree with the person who said that anyone raised in the church was aware this was going on. My family has been very active in the church and we’ve never had any experience remotely like this with any priest, or even got a creepy vibe or anything. For us, a “bad” priest was one who gave too long a sermon or too much penance at confession! Also, as a lawyer, I’m pretty aware that a disturbingly large percentage of the male population is just totally messed up when it comes to sex/respect/etc., so I agree that this is not just a catholic issue. I wish the church had let women into the hierarchy decades ago.
Also, I 100% disagree with the person who said that anyone raised in the church was aware this was going on. My family has been very active in the church and we’ve never had any experience remotely like this with any priest, or even got a creepy vibe or anything. For us, a “bad” priest was one who gave too long a sermon or too much penance at confession! Also, as a lawyer, I’m pretty aware that a disturbingly large percentage of the male population is just totally messed up when it comes to sex/respect/etc., so I agree that this is not just a catholic issue. I wish the church had let women into the hierarchy decades ago.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 16:46
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:Being Catholic are your beliefs about God. Priests abusing others is not a part of our faith. Why not stay and be a part of the solution?
What, exactly, can non-ordained parishioners do to be part of the solution? Rome will just pat you on your head and send you back to your pew. Oh, and take your donations to pay for their lawsuits.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 16:38
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.
This is why you have to leave OP.
The people who stay will keep normalizing abuse and the leadership will keep covering it up. Nothing will change until a mass exodus forces change. Be a part of the solution.
I read that as a warning, not a normalization.
It’s not a warning. Catholics telling themselves that abuse happens everywhere is normalizing the decades long cover ups and abuse in the Catholic Church. There is no other Christian Church (that isn’t a cult) with this level of sexual abuse of children and a commitment by Church hierarchy to cover it up. The reason you can’t name a single other Christian denomination with this much sexual abuse is because it doesn’t exist. Maybe if you added ALL the cases of preacher affairs abd known child abuse in ALL other churches you would come close to a fraction of what has been going on in the Catholic Church.
So, please name ONE other Church with hundreds of known cases of child abuse by clergy and documented efforts by the Church hierarchy in every state to cover it up.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 15:23
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Your kids already presumably have exposure to Judaism if you’re interfaith, right? Maybe they would be interested in pursuing faith through their Jewish heritage. Honestly, I think this is what I would do.
-Mom raising interfaith kids (no Catholicism, though)
-Mom raising interfaith kids (no Catholicism, though)
Anonymous
08/15/2018 15:05
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:I was where you were two years ago, OP.
My kids were a little younger (oldest was in first grade). I wanted to be transparent with them, as it would be a change in their lives and routines, but I also didn't feel the need to make too big of a deal out of it.
I told them that there are lots of ways to worship God and Jesus, and I thought it would be good if we as a family figured out what the best way for us would be.
We spent a few months going to different Christian churches. It was really interesting for me and I think a good experience for the kids, too. After each one we'd talk about what we liked and what we didn't. Some weren't legitimately on the table at all becaues of theological differences (ie, we weren't going to be baptists no matter how lovely the church) and some the kids were vocal in not liking at all (ie, the place where everyone wanted to hug us and made us stand up and introduce ourselves.)
We ended up - not surprisingly - at an Episcopalian church. The priest even did a little "first communion" thing for my son, since he had been hearing about it and getting geared up for it at our Catholic church.
It's truly been one of the best decisions I've made for my faith and for my family.
So just be honest with your kids - it's time to look around and see if there is a better way that we can worship God. And include them in the decisions and investigations. And pray about it. You'll land where you're supposed to be.
OP here - thank you, this is helpful. I think it's a useful way for me to think about it. It's about finding (as a family) a way to worship God and be spiritual. And (perhaps less about ) leaving the Catholic church. Thank you for your advice and support.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 14:28
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
I was where you were two years ago, OP.
My kids were a little younger (oldest was in first grade). I wanted to be transparent with them, as it would be a change in their lives and routines, but I also didn't feel the need to make too big of a deal out of it.
I told them that there are lots of ways to worship God and Jesus, and I thought it would be good if we as a family figured out what the best way for us would be.
We spent a few months going to different Christian churches. It was really interesting for me and I think a good experience for the kids, too. After each one we'd talk about what we liked and what we didn't. Some weren't legitimately on the table at all becaues of theological differences (ie, we weren't going to be baptists no matter how lovely the church) and some the kids were vocal in not liking at all (ie, the place where everyone wanted to hug us and made us stand up and introduce ourselves.)
We ended up - not surprisingly - at an Episcopalian church. The priest even did a little "first communion" thing for my son, since he had been hearing about it and getting geared up for it at our Catholic church.
It's truly been one of the best decisions I've made for my faith and for my family.
So just be honest with your kids - it's time to look around and see if there is a better way that we can worship God. And include them in the decisions and investigations. And pray about it. You'll land where you're supposed to be.
My kids were a little younger (oldest was in first grade). I wanted to be transparent with them, as it would be a change in their lives and routines, but I also didn't feel the need to make too big of a deal out of it.
I told them that there are lots of ways to worship God and Jesus, and I thought it would be good if we as a family figured out what the best way for us would be.
We spent a few months going to different Christian churches. It was really interesting for me and I think a good experience for the kids, too. After each one we'd talk about what we liked and what we didn't. Some weren't legitimately on the table at all becaues of theological differences (ie, we weren't going to be baptists no matter how lovely the church) and some the kids were vocal in not liking at all (ie, the place where everyone wanted to hug us and made us stand up and introduce ourselves.)
We ended up - not surprisingly - at an Episcopalian church. The priest even did a little "first communion" thing for my son, since he had been hearing about it and getting geared up for it at our Catholic church.
It's truly been one of the best decisions I've made for my faith and for my family.
So just be honest with your kids - it's time to look around and see if there is a better way that we can worship God. And include them in the decisions and investigations. And pray about it. You'll land where you're supposed to be.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 13:19
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.
Where is this happening in other faiths? I grew up in Catholic school, but I am protestant. There isn't much difference in the two religions except that Catholic priests seem to have much more contact with young boys because of altar boys (the boys in my super conservative MoCo parish used to brag that the cool, young priest used to show them porno mags. I shutter now to think of what else happened to them), first communion and confession. It's such an easy breeding ground for abuse. We didn't have these things in the protestant church, they were more community centered vs. priest/child centered.
This is not to excuse the catholic church, which probably dwarfs others in the magnitude, impact and brazenness of the abuse, but the New Yorker ran an article about 10 years ago documenting this in ultra-orthodox Jewish communities. I mentioned it to a Muslim friend and he said it happens in Muslim communities too. There was a case in a Protestant church in NoVA that was in the papers a few years ago that I remember pretty vividly.
Basically, if you put people in positions of unquestioned authority, it's only a matter of time before the positions attract would be abusers.
^^^I had a flashback to an extracurricular activity I was running a few years ago for my kids and a bunch of others. The coaches had this newsgroup where everyone shared info. One day, some unknown person posted on the newsgroup that they were looking for a group to volunteer with because they "loved working with children and had done it in the past at their church." They also added that they had zero experience in the skillset needed to run this activity. For some reason, the person's professed lack of knowledge and experience, their unabashed enthusiasm for "volunteering" with children and the church mention really set off my alarm bells as a parent and I never forgot that post. I've always wondered if that was a catholic church or some other denomination.
The following year, the national organization that sponsors the activity started mandating strenuous background checks for coaches as well as the obligation for each team to have two coaches or a coach and another cleared adult present at all times with the children.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 13:12
Subject: Re:Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
We left and joined the Episcopal Church. The Catholic Church is right up there with the Evangelical churches in my opinion. Just gross. I have no desire to ever be part of that kind of organization again.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 13:08
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.
100% not true.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 13:08
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:If your faith is that fungible, then I respectfully suggest you consider the option of no church. It is a real, respectable, and worthy option.
Your children can then decide for themselves when they are mature, and when they make all their other critically important life decisions.
This is an option, but it might be a shocker for the kids to have their Sunday routine brought to a halt. A unitarian church is a similar option, IMO. Then again, the kids might love having their Sundays free and they can always choose for themselves later on.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 13:05
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
I would strongly consider Judaism. I'm in the same boat as you are, btw, minus the interfaith marriage.
Same god, none of the same sex hangups.
Don't even get me started that this happens everywhere. No. Not to this extent. Anyone who was raised catholic knows priests have been extra creepy for decades, we were taught to ignore it.
Same god, none of the same sex hangups.
Don't even get me started that this happens everywhere. No. Not to this extent. Anyone who was raised catholic knows priests have been extra creepy for decades, we were taught to ignore it.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 13:05
Subject: Re:Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
I tried Episocopal and it was so refreshing. Very similar liturgy, but things were done "right. Open lesbian minister. At the beginning of the service, there is an announcement "communion is open to all". Episopalians don't lobby against gay marriage, birth control and abortion either. You use your own conscience.
When I've attended services for other denominations, I always get the feeling that everyone is there because they really want to be there, as opposed to just being there out of obligation. Many stay after services to get to know each other.
We ultimately decided on no church for our family for various reasons.
Good luck with the journey. The church knew what it was doing when they indoctrinated us with blind faith, guilt, fear and shame. It's not easy.
When I've attended services for other denominations, I always get the feeling that everyone is there because they really want to be there, as opposed to just being there out of obligation. Many stay after services to get to know each other.
We ultimately decided on no church for our family for various reasons.
Good luck with the journey. The church knew what it was doing when they indoctrinated us with blind faith, guilt, fear and shame. It's not easy.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 13:02
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:The stats show that abuse is very similar in other faiths. It just doesn't get as much press as it does wit the Catholic Church.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.
Where is this happening in other faiths? I grew up in Catholic school, but I am protestant. There isn't much difference in the two religions except that Catholic priests seem to have much more contact with young boys because of altar boys (the boys in my super conservative MoCo parish used to brag that the cool, young priest used to show them porno mags. I shutter now to think of what else happened to them), first communion and confession. It's such an easy breeding ground for abuse. We didn't have these things in the protestant church, they were more community centered vs. priest/child centered.
please show us the stats that show that.
Anonymous
08/15/2018 13:01
Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.
Do other faiths have the same institutionalized pedophile ring? An organization of priests that abuse, and a cycle of enabling/covering up?
If OP and others want to practice their faith privately, in their heart or at home, that's wonderful and beautiful. But discontinuing support of an institutionalized pedophile ring is absolutely a Catholic issue - and no person of decency should support them with another cent or minute.