Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up the younger child in this situation. Can't tell you how scarring it was.

OP here and so did I. That’s why this is so hard.

OP I think PP hit the nail on the head. I am the person earlier with the 3 year old DD.

When these things happen your son is escalating his emotions. He can't calm down and gets frustrated so starts to lash out. He's ratcheting things up. When you swoop in crying and freaking out you are escalating and likely freaking him out. Kids don't feel safe when their parents are crying and out of control. I know I said to react and I think you do need to react but not in this way. Your reaction needs to convey that this is unacceptable but that you are in control.

"Larlo, you just pushed Larlito down. He has an ouchey now and he is sad. That was mean and unkind and you need to go sit in timeout (or his room, whatever) alone for 2 minutes or you need to apologize immediately." I always give my daughter this choice, my dad is a psychiatrist and said one of the keys to time outs is that they ARE the punishment, you can't make them apologize after they did time out because, essentially, they did their time.

In the beginning DD would start to escalate and freak out and we would have to strongly and forcefully enforce timeout. Not violently just like, sometimes repeatedly putting her back in the time out spot until she sat for the full decided time. Nowadays its 50/50. Sometimes she genuinely feels bad and wants to apologize and sometimes she wants to go sit in time out to cool down. Sometimes she stays in time out past the timer because she's not ready to rejoin the family and we tell her, "that is fine DD, just take as much time as you need and we will all be here when you're feeling better."

One thing you might not be realizing. Toddlers understand when you're mad at them. I imagine your frustration towards older DD is evident so he generally gets two versions of you. The gritting your teeth on edge waiting for him to screw up version and the crying because he can't stop hurting younger DS version. None of that is positive. When you start to take control of the situation by calmly and without emotion enforcing punishments but by being warm and inclusive and positive at all other times, it will start to work. I know you say you talk about loving family and lift him up but to me this sounds like emotional whiplash for a toddler. We're all FEELING that we LOVE FAMILY or we are FEELING that BABY BROTHER IS IN DANGER or we are FEELING that BABY BROTHER IS ANNOYING or we are FEELING that MOMMY IS MAD AND SAD. You need more structure and confidence to deescalate this entire situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your 19 mo will start learning big brother's behavior, if not already, so you will have double trouble.

I feel like part of the story is missing. Is Dh involved? What is your definition of the 1:1 time and is it consistent/predictable each day? Is little brother "in the way" and "mess things up" a lot?

Do the 3 of you play together ever or tech them to play together- playdo, magnatiles for example.

Little brother is 99% blameless. Big brother will go knock him over the head, pinch, etc for no reason.

We play together A LOT to model good behavior. A LOT.

DH is involved and does a lot of 1:1 time too.

Have you asked your 3 yr old why he is physical toward his little brother?

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

And how is this working out? Not well. A good time out in his room with no toys is where I would start.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up the younger child in this situation. Can't tell you how scarring it was.

Another PP again here and my sister and I beat the crap out of each other growing up and we're super close now. I'm not emotionally scarred by it in the slightest. I do, however, have some physical scars to show for it, as does she.

Anonymous wrote:Janet Lansbury is a total hack. Seems like her only qualifications are that she is a SAHM and her vanity mommy blog took off for whatever reason.

I don't follow her 100% but I have found her advice to have excellent results for my family. Hack or not.

Anonymous wrote:Your 19 mo will start learning big brother's behavior, if not already, so you will have double trouble.

I feel like part of the story is missing. Is Dh involved? What is your definition of the 1:1 time and is it consistent/predictable each day? Is little brother "in the way" and "mess things up" a lot?

Do the 3 of you play together ever or tech them to play together- playdo, magnatiles for example.

Little brother is 99% blameless. Big brother will go knock him over the head, pinch, etc for no reason.

We play together A LOT to model good behavior. A LOT.

DH is involved and does a lot of 1:1 time too.

Janet Lansbury is a total hack. Seems like her only qualifications are that she is a SAHM and her vanity mommy blog took off for whatever reason.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up the younger child in this situation. Can't tell you how scarring it was.

OP here and so did I. That’s why this is so hard.

Your 19 mo will start learning big brother's behavior, if not already, so you will have double trouble.

I feel like part of the story is missing. Is Dh involved? What is your definition of the 1:1 time and is it consistent/predictable each day? Is little brother "in the way" and "mess things up" a lot?

Do the 3 of you play together ever or tech them to play together- playdo, magnatiles for example.

I grew up the younger child in this situation. Can't tell you how scarring it was.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

Yikes!

Okay, I'm with you 100% on the no spanking.

But, your response is an overreaction and is giving him the attention he deserves, but with NO consequences.

Based on reading this, your DS is literally begging you for limits and to parent him.

I'm one of the Janet Lansbury PPs, and here's something to try:

Next time DS1 is aggressive towards DS2, show no emotion. Calmly say to DS1 something like: "I won't tolerate you hitting your brother. You're showing me that you're having a hard time controlling yourself, so I'm going to need to separate you for a while. Go to your room for a few minutes to calm down, and I'll come get you in 5 minutes."

Yes, it's effectively the same thing as a time out, but I do think the explanation sorta helps.

Sorry, not the attention he deserves, the attention is is going for.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

Yikes!

Okay, I'm with you 100% on the no spanking.

But, your response is an overreaction and is giving him the attention he deserves, but with NO consequences.

Based on reading this, your DS is literally begging you for limits and to parent him.

I'm one of the Janet Lansbury PPs, and here's something to try:

Next time DS1 is aggressive towards DS2, show no emotion. Calmly say to DS1 something like: "I won't tolerate you hitting your brother. You're showing me that you're having a hard time controlling yourself, so I'm going to need to separate you for a while. Go to your room for a few minutes to calm down, and I'll come get you in 5 minutes."

Yes, it's effectively the same thing as a time out, but I do think the explanation sorta helps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I follow Janet Lansbury and I have a 3 yo and a baby. My 3 yo had a brief phase of trying to hurt the baby in various ways (biting was a favorite). I took away her favorite thing for increasing amounts of time. First offense, one day. Second offense, two days, etc. By four days without it and asking a million times every day and getting the same "unruffled" response she finally got it. She no longer hurts the baby.

If you're doing everything else (modeling, 1:1 attention, etc.) than I think you absolutely need to enforce some negative consequence. You need to protect the baby, that's the priority. I'd lose my mind if older DC nearly pushed younger DC down the stairs. That is not a time to worry about your reaction being a source of attention.

Can you please share some more info? This is helpful. My son just turned 3, so he’s young.

And I have lost my mind. I get so upset. It’s really scary and upsetting to see the baby getting so hurt for no reason.

But then, according to the books, but reactions are JUST want DS1 wants.

I'm the PP above. I get it, I felt absolute rage then regret anytime older DC would.hurt the baby. I don't 100% buy into Janet's zero reaction unruffled thing. Yes, the day to day annoyances when no one is going to get hurt, I think it's fine. But when someone is at risk we say "danger danger" and my DD knows that someone could get hurt and whatever I'm telling her I to keep her safe. What's your DS's favorite thing? A toy? Screen time? Play doh? As long as it's not a toy he relies on for sleep then take it away and put it somewhere he can see it but not get to it. The first time and every time he asks remind him he cant have it for X days because he did Y which hurt his sibling. No emotion. Just fact. When you observe maybe something starting to go sideways remind him that you don't want to, but it he hurts the baby you have to take away the thing again and this time it will be longer. Stand your ground. Follow through. Do not cave in.

He is clearly too much for you to handle OP.

Send him to preschool and full time daycare. Let someone else give you a hand.

You are irresponsible towards the little brother if the 3 year old keeps hurting him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you might benefit from the Kazdin method. I read a "lite" version of it when my DS2 was born and it helped.

BTW, I follow Janet Lansbury and she's not against consequences. You just have to be calm about it and it's best of they're logical.

Also one more thing: things go so much more smoothly in the house when DS1 is out of the house for at least half day at presschool or camp or whatever.

Thanks. Yes, he did FINE the weeks he was in VBS. And during school he’s better. But now, day after day until school starts...

What consequences do you do?

I'm 13:58 again.

I use time out as a consequence. Mainly "You don't get to spend time with me and your brother if you are hitting/kicking etc, so you need to go to your room". I also find that when my older one is starting to get "punchy" and I can tell she's going to get rough, I find focusing on just her for a minute helps. Saying "you seem like you are having a hard time" and just pulling her into my lap for a minute helps. I try to do that BEFORE getting upset and angry. She wants to be focused on. The hard part is the 1 year old sees that and then is ON ME LIKE GLUE to try to get the attention as well. It's a tough balance.

Get them out of the house as much as possible. Have a little structure. Our hardest times are when we've spent too long at home with "unstructured" play time. So we need to move locations at a minimum. The park, a walk, even just going to play in the basement helps immensely when they start at each other.

Thanks. We definitely get out of the house. And we stay home. I know DCUM likes to say to get out of the house AND leave time for unstructured play. So there ya go.

Unfortunately many of the times the aggression is sudden and “hidden”. The baby will start crying and I’ll realize DS1 is pinching him. Or DS1 will just go up to DS2 in the other room and hit him with a block. MOST OF THE TIME it’s sudden and unwarranted. All of the obvious times I can stop.