Regardless of summer brain drain, the one thing that is true is that national test dates remain the same- so AP and SAT scores will decrease because there will be fewer days to prep and fewer breaks to "settle" the brains for learning. MD used to lead the area with earlier start dates and it will reflect in these test scores- so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/larry-hogans-school-schedule-intervention-gets-a-fix--but-not-enough-of-one/2018/03/31/5f686fa8-343e-11e8-94fa-32d48460b955_story.html?utm_term=.82c1c9292b7f

The other thing is that though I understand the novelty of this schedule, this is not going to increase "ocean city" vacation time. What it will do is increase the number of days teachers will take off as being sick will substitute for "planning days" and will increase the number of weeks kids go to summer camps.

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I live in VA. We're seeing schools go over the King's Dominion ruling here by having more "snow days" and building extreme weather a lot more into the schedule. I think next year Stafford County is starting school on August 12 and ending BEFORE JUNE 1st. I see parents looking into booking earlier vacations in June and finding it easier to deal with camps/child care because they don't have to find child care in the last few weeks of August, which can be hard because college students return to their campuses. So the Hogan calendar thing is not just a testing issue for families in MD: it will effect their ability to travel and care for their kids. If you have to find extra money for summer camp/care, you won't be able to pay for that OC beach vacation.

Moreover, without Spring Break, OCs spring business will plummet. Spring Break in OC is big business, but for us VA people, we go farther south to avoid MD crowds. I don't think that will change for VA crowds, but without MD crows, it will be devastating for their economy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


My concerm is that Jealous is proposing universal preschool and free higher education when the state is having issues funding K-12, especially in light of the fact that many school facilities are reaching obsolescence and need to be replaced.

There’s only so much money to play with, especially given how high our state taxes are relative to other states.

Hate to burst your Hogan bubble, but Hogan was the Governor who approved free community college for those households making less than $124K/year. So that ship has sailed. And no one is really talking about free pre-K seriously in this time of shrinking budgets.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-approves-community-college-20180504-story.html

Oh sweetie, Jealous wants to do so much more, with the goal of making the entire state public higher education system free. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-campaign-jealous-sanders-20180507-story.html

And universial free full day preschool is definitely a major part of his platform. https://benjealous.com/issues/education/

So, while I agree that reasonable people don’t think these policies are feasible financially, Ben Jealous disagrees.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


My concerm is that Jealous is proposing universal preschool and free higher education when the state is having issues funding K-12, especially in light of the fact that many school facilities are reaching obsolescence and need to be replaced.

There’s only so much money to play with, especially given how high our state taxes are relative to other states.

Hate to burst your Hogan bubble, but Hogan was the Governor who approved free community college for those households making less than $124K/year. So that ship has sailed. And no one is really talking about free pre-K seriously in this time of shrinking budgets.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-approves-community-college-20180504-story.html

See how generous Hogan can be with the education budget when it's an election year and he can give away stuff to voting age students.

Anonymous wrote:


My concerm is that Jealous is proposing universal preschool and free higher education when the state is having issues funding K-12, especially in light of the fact that many school facilities are reaching obsolescence and need to be replaced.

There’s only so much money to play with, especially given how high our state taxes are relative to other states.

Hate to burst your Hogan bubble, but Hogan was the Governor who approved free community college for those households making less than $124K/year. So that ship has sailed. And no one is really talking about free pre-K seriously in this time of shrinking budgets.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-approves-community-college-20180504-story.html

Anonymous wrote:


My concerm is that Jealous is proposing universal preschool and free higher education when the state is having issues funding K-12, especially in light of the fact that many school facilities are reaching obsolescence and need to be replaced.

There’s only so much money to play with, especially given how high our state taxes are relative to other states.

You are forgetting the money tree he has. That will provide all that is needed for his various programs. Won't require a dime in new taxes as long as we keep it watered.

My concerm is that Jealous is proposing universal preschool and free higher education when the state is having issues funding K-12, especially in light of the fact that many school facilities are reaching obsolescence and need to be replaced.

There’s only so much money to play with, especially given how high our state taxes are relative to other states.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's the only Republican I voted for in the last election where he was on the ballot. MD was getting out of control with taxing and spending. He has pushed forward on getting a rein in on that, and also furthering transpotation priorities and slowly making MD pro-business.

I don't see MD becoming more pro-business. He didn't lift a finger when Discovery left Silver Spring. The only people I see him trying to help is his voter base in Ocean City, with his ridiculous Labor Day to June 15 policy which means that Maryland schools don't have a spring break week this year.

That's the school's fault partially. They can just move their days off for teacher service days if they want to keep those breaks. The benefit of starting school after Labor Day is it's a big benefit to Ocean City and the MD taxpayer (tax revenue), for no additional taxpayer cost.

Sure big benefit to ocean city with no additional cost if you don’t count the learning outcomes for our children. I am not voting for Hogan either. He has been bad on education issues.

1 week later start is going to have a drastic effect on learning outcomes?

It's not one week - Montgomery County as planning to have the school year start earlier than it had in previous years, so it's a net difference of 2-3 weeks. And yes, the longer the break, the greater effect on outcomes.

Regardless, I am almost as annoyed at the mandatory holidays on Easter Monday (seriously?) and Election Day (surely there are other facilities besides schools that can accommodate elections). Not to mention the Board or educations refusal to explore any options so Bethesda, etc. don't have to take a day off when there's ice in Poolesville.

At the end of the day, though, I think Jealous could potentially be far worse for Montgomery County education than mandatory post-Labor day starts.

Precisely. Jealous's plan would significantly reduce education funding to MoCo and send it to other parts of the state. Losing that education funds would have a much more drastic effect on MoCo's school than a shift in the schedule by a week or two.

If you are voting based on who would be best for education in MoCo, I think the choice is clearly Hogan.

Hogan has regularly withheld education funds that would compensate for higher staffing costs in MoCo that were present in Martin O'Malley's days. But if you want to vote for Jealous because you think he might do the same, you're ignoring Hogan's past actions as Governor.
http://bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/2015/Montgomery-County-Education-Leaders-Urge-Hogan-To-Release-Funding/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's the only Republican I voted for in the last election where he was on the ballot. MD was getting out of control with taxing and spending. He has pushed forward on getting a rein in on that, and also furthering transpotation priorities and slowly making MD pro-business.

I don't see MD becoming more pro-business. He didn't lift a finger when Discovery left Silver Spring. The only people I see him trying to help is his voter base in Ocean City, with his ridiculous Labor Day to June 15 policy which means that Maryland schools don't have a spring break week this year.

That's the school's fault partially. They can just move their days off for teacher service days if they want to keep those breaks. The benefit of starting school after Labor Day is it's a big benefit to Ocean City and the MD taxpayer (tax revenue), for no additional taxpayer cost.

Sure big benefit to ocean city with no additional cost if you don’t count the learning outcomes for our children. I am not voting for Hogan either. He has been bad on education issues.

I'm still waiting for the study that says summer learning loss is fine for 9 weeks, but that 10th week is the killer.
Or fine for 10 weeks, but that 11th week is the killer.

Since it sounds like you have that information, please share it.

Summer slide, i.e. the loss in learning due to lengthy periods of time out of school is widely documented. Here's an article from Brookings. Google lists 529,000,000 other hits for summer slide, so you can education yourself. I'm still waiting for the evidence that having an extra week of having Maryland school children stay out of school is a big economic boon to Ocean City. Do you have that data?

Yes. Which week does the slide start? I bet it’s 2 or 3 not 9 or 10.

Where do you see studies stating that? The Brookings study cited above notes that summer slide increases with the number of weeks away from the classroom. To say you refuse to believe anything unless there’s a specific trial testing the increase from 10 to 11 weeks seems like willfull blindness. So where’s that data on the Ocean City boom and how do you rationalize prioritizing the economic well being of a tiny group of Republican voters over educational outcomes?

Yes, it increases, so after 3 weeks the loss is greater than 2. After 5 weeks, greater than 4. And so on.

But nothing that says 9 or 10 weeks is reasonable, but the 10th or 11th week accelerates into unacceptability.

You're not arguing for year round schooling, which would eliminate summer learning loss. You're arguing that N weeks is fine, but N+1 weeks is not. You need to demonstrate that something happens in that additional week that makes it unacceptable.

So now you want to argue for year round schooling instead of going back to the pre-Hogan schedule? Are you trying to deflect from the fact that you haven't found data on the Ocean City boom?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's the only Republican I voted for in the last election where he was on the ballot. MD was getting out of control with taxing and spending. He has pushed forward on getting a rein in on that, and also furthering transpotation priorities and slowly making MD pro-business.

I don't see MD becoming more pro-business. He didn't lift a finger when Discovery left Silver Spring. The only people I see him trying to help is his voter base in Ocean City, with his ridiculous Labor Day to June 15 policy which means that Maryland schools don't have a spring break week this year.

That's the school's fault partially. They can just move their days off for teacher service days if they want to keep those breaks. The benefit of starting school after Labor Day is it's a big benefit to Ocean City and the MD taxpayer (tax revenue), for no additional taxpayer cost.

Sure big benefit to ocean city with no additional cost if you don’t count the learning outcomes for our children. I am not voting for Hogan either. He has been bad on education issues.

1 week later start is going to have a drastic effect on learning outcomes?

It's not one week - Montgomery County as planning to have the school year start earlier than it had in previous years, so it's a net difference of 2-3 weeks. And yes, the longer the break, the greater effect on outcomes.

Regardless, I am almost as annoyed at the mandatory holidays on Easter Monday (seriously?) and Election Day (surely there are other facilities besides schools that can accommodate elections). Not to mention the Board or educations refusal to explore any options so Bethesda, etc. don't have to take a day off when there's ice in Poolesville.

At the end of the day, though, I think Jealous could potentially be far worse for Montgomery County education than mandatory post-Labor day starts.

Precisely. Jealous's plan would significantly reduce education funding to MoCo and send it to other parts of the state. Losing that education funds would have a much more drastic effect on MoCo's school than a shift in the schedule by a week or two.

If you are voting based on who would be best for education in MoCo, I think the choice is clearly Hogan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mandatory school calendar idea is very un-Republican, when the Republican party has traditionally been about local control. Let each county determine its educational needs and plan accordingly.

It's not just about starting after Labor Day, remember. It's also about not being allowed to go too far into June. He and Franchot are extending summer break to benefit business, not children.

+1. Hogan is a hypocrite. Local control is best for Republicans unless it can be used to sell out school kids for business interests.

And liberals are usually very comfortable trampling on the independence of cities or states when trying to enact federal or statewide mandates. Neither side is being consistent with its usual position here, which honestly isn't all that shocking since their are innumerable examples of politicians (of both parties) taking stand A when it benefits them and stand B when things have changed.

I'm not a huge fan of Hogan's school mandate, but I don't think it is really going to affect educational outcomes and it isn't something that is going to factor into my decision (which I am still up in the air about) of who to vote for this fall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's the only Republican I voted for in the last election where he was on the ballot. MD was getting out of control with taxing and spending. He has pushed forward on getting a rein in on that, and also furthering transpotation priorities and slowly making MD pro-business.

I don't see MD becoming more pro-business. He didn't lift a finger when Discovery left Silver Spring. The only people I see him trying to help is his voter base in Ocean City, with his ridiculous Labor Day to June 15 policy which means that Maryland schools don't have a spring break week this year.

That's the school's fault partially. They can just move their days off for teacher service days if they want to keep those breaks. The benefit of starting school after Labor Day is it's a big benefit to Ocean City and the MD taxpayer (tax revenue), for no additional taxpayer cost.

Sure big benefit to ocean city with no additional cost if you don’t count the learning outcomes for our children. I am not voting for Hogan either. He has been bad on education issues.

I'm still waiting for the study that says summer learning loss is fine for 9 weeks, but that 10th week is the killer.
Or fine for 10 weeks, but that 11th week is the killer.

Since it sounds like you have that information, please share it.

Summer slide, i.e. the loss in learning due to lengthy periods of time out of school is widely documented. Here's an article from Brookings. Google lists 529,000,000 other hits for summer slide, so you can education yourself. I'm still waiting for the evidence that having an extra week of having Maryland school children stay out of school is a big economic boon to Ocean City. Do you have that data?

Yes. Which week does the slide start? I bet it’s 2 or 3 not 9 or 10.

Where do you see studies stating that? The Brookings study cited above notes that summer slide increases with the number of weeks away from the classroom. To say you refuse to believe anything unless there’s a specific trial testing the increase from 10 to 11 weeks seems like willfull blindness. So where’s that data on the Ocean City boom and how do you rationalize prioritizing the economic well being of a tiny group of Republican voters over educational outcomes?

Yes, it increases, so after 3 weeks the loss is greater than 2. After 5 weeks, greater than 4. And so on.

But nothing that says 9 or 10 weeks is reasonable, but the 10th or 11th week accelerates into unacceptability.

You're not arguing for year round schooling, which would eliminate summer learning loss. You're arguing that N weeks is fine, but N+1 weeks is not. You need to demonstrate that something happens in that additional week that makes it unacceptable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's the only Republican I voted for in the last election where he was on the ballot. MD was getting out of control with taxing and spending. He has pushed forward on getting a rein in on that, and also furthering transpotation priorities and slowly making MD pro-business.

I don't see MD becoming more pro-business. He didn't lift a finger when Discovery left Silver Spring. The only people I see him trying to help is his voter base in Ocean City, with his ridiculous Labor Day to June 15 policy which means that Maryland schools don't have a spring break week this year.

That's the school's fault partially. They can just move their days off for teacher service days if they want to keep those breaks. The benefit of starting school after Labor Day is it's a big benefit to Ocean City and the MD taxpayer (tax revenue), for no additional taxpayer cost.

Sure big benefit to ocean city with no additional cost if you don’t count the learning outcomes for our children. I am not voting for Hogan either. He has been bad on education issues.

I'm still waiting for the study that says summer learning loss is fine for 9 weeks, but that 10th week is the killer.
Or fine for 10 weeks, but that 11th week is the killer.

Since it sounds like you have that information, please share it.

Summer slide, i.e. the loss in learning due to lengthy periods of time out of school is widely documented. Here's an article from Brookings. Google lists 529,000,000 other hits for summer slide, so you can education yourself. I'm still waiting for the evidence that having an extra week of having Maryland school children stay out of school is a big economic boon to Ocean City. Do you have that data?

Summer slide is highly documented yes. But nothing that says N weeks is ok, but that N+1 weeks causes such a significant amount of lost learning it's in a class by itself.

Please provide the evidence that shows the summer slide is acceptable for 9 weeks, but unacceptable for 10. Or ok for 10, but that 11th week makes it unrecoverable.

Hogan refers to Jealous as a socialist in that interview. He doesn't strike me as particularly capable of nuance or balance. We already have that in the White House level today. I'm voting for Jealous.

As a Dem I actually like Hogan. However if he wants to widen the Beltway no vote from me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn’t one of the reasons for extending the school year start into September (when it historically was the case) because a lot of schools don’t have air conditioning?

Anyway, a week here or a week there isn’t a big deal to me and is rather arbitrary. Nonetheless, I’m sensible enough to know that the people complaining about Hogan were never going to vote for him anyway and the arguments put forward against him aren’t convincing enough to persuade me not to vote for him. There’s definitely a few crockpots (at least one) on here who aren’t helping at all.

Crockpots?

I prefer to think of myself as an instapot.