Anonymous wrote:I’ve had 3 Camrys (as close as I can relate to a Honda). My current daily driver is at 251k miles. Ive spent about <3k in repairs on it (not including routine maintenance such as oil brakes etc). I don’t imagine that would be possible with a BMW based on my friend’s experiences with their European cars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP, this thread illustrates the fact that vast majority people have little to no actual knowledge of what they talk about. They simply repeat what they've heard, or hold on to notions that are no longer true.

In general, vehicle reliability gap between different brands have narrowed significantly since the 80's and 90's, when there was a sizable gulf between Honda/Toyota and "the rest". With just a handful of notable exceptions, current selection of vehicles fall into a fairly small range of reliability. Note that Consumer Reports places BMW higher on their average reliability rating than Honda. I am sure either a new BMW or Honda would be similarly reliable, and any issues you encounter would be the exception rather than the rule.

That said, the cost of ownership for an older BMW will typically be higher due to more expensive repairs when they do happen. There are fewer budget oriented independent shops that work on BMWs versus those that fix Honda/Toyota.

As for why BMW typically has worse resale value, there are a multitude of reasons. The most significant of which is the incorrect perception that Hondas are such reliable cars. This perception is the reason why a used 2-3 year old Honda are usually sold with just a modest discount from an all-new price. People are so set in their thinking that a used Honda is a great deal that they pay entirely too much for one. Another reason is that BMWs are often purchased as status vehicles and as such people tend to want to drive late models with newer body styles.

Nope sorry. My wife and I have a 3 series, FIL has a 5 series, my brother has the X5 and NONE of us plans to buy another BMW. Do we like driving them, of course. But we've spent many recent family gatherings commiserating about the recurring repairs and costs. We also just had this same exact conversation with a group of neighbors at our 4th of July BBQ. It seems in my experience that this is what people keep saying because ACTUAL BMW owners will tell you they are costly vehicles to maintain. My extended family has been slowly switching to Audi's and Lexus. But several of us still have older Honda's, MDX's, and Toyota's that we rely on or let our kids drive.

Your anecdotes are just that, anecdotes - they are inconsequential in the face of broad statistics, which is what's used by Consumer Reports to give BMW a higher reliability rating than Honda. It's not just Consumer Reports either: JD Powers also ranks BMW higher in dependability than Honda: http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2018-us-vehicle-dependability-study. With regards to maintenance costs, I am not sure where the disagreement is: I acknowledged that BMWs cost more to repair and therefore has a higher cost of ownership. Did you actually read my post or just had an uncontrollable self-righteous urge to pound out a post because you think you know better.

So thank you for illustrating perfectly how personal bias is causing people to significantly over estimate the reliability of Hondas, leading to their irrationally high resale value.

Horseshit. If you seriously believe that a BMW is more reliable than a Honda you are delusional.

So both Consumer Reports and JD Powers are delusional?

To the OP, this is yet further clear evidence that people are simply irrational when it comes to their assessment of Honda's reliability. Here in this thread you have multiple posters that even after being show data and evidence from trusted sources, choose to continue to hold on to their incorrect notions, going so far as to call people delusional.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve had 3 Camrys (as close as I can relate to a Honda). My current daily driver is at 251k miles. Ive spent about <3k in repairs on it (not including routine maintenance such as oil brakes etc). I don’t imagine that would be possible with a BMW based on my friend’s experiences with their European cars.

Anonymous wrote:We are looking into buying a new car and considering replacing our Honda Oddesey. DH likes BMWs and I’m surprised you can getbhem for a price that’s not crazy expensive (compared to other vehicles.

Which brand holds its value better and which will last longer?

Anonymous wrote:
That's for JD Powers ratings. Consumer Reports collects questionnaires on cars from 2000 to 2017 to arrive at their ratings.

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Anonymous wrote:

So your individual anecdotal experience is more valid than the broad statistics collected by both Consumer Reports and JD Powers?

As a PP pointed out, statistics collected over the first three years of a car's life don't provide a great indicator of a vehicle's long-term reliability.

Anonymous wrote:Hah, the only people I hear citing JD Power surveys are car salesman/dealers. And since we're getting into facts. The JD Power "2018 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from 36,896 original owners of 2015 model-year vehicles after three years of ownership". I'd need to see the data for ownership beyond 3 years to be convinced.

Anonymous wrote:

So your individual anecdotal experience is more valid than the broad statistics collected by both Consumer Reports and JD Powers?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP, this thread illustrates the fact that vast majority people have little to no actual knowledge of what they talk about. They simply repeat what they've heard, or hold on to notions that are no longer true.

In general, vehicle reliability gap between different brands have narrowed significantly since the 80's and 90's, when there was a sizable gulf between Honda/Toyota and "the rest". With just a handful of notable exceptions, current selection of vehicles fall into a fairly small range of reliability. Note that Consumer Reports places BMW higher on their average reliability rating than Honda. I am sure either a new BMW or Honda would be similarly reliable, and any issues you encounter would be the exception rather than the rule.

That said, the cost of ownership for an older BMW will typically be higher due to more expensive repairs when they do happen. There are fewer budget oriented independent shops that work on BMWs versus those that fix Honda/Toyota.

As for why BMW typically has worse resale value, there are a multitude of reasons. The most significant of which is the incorrect perception that Hondas are such reliable cars. This perception is the reason why a used 2-3 year old Honda are usually sold with just a modest discount from an all-new price. People are so set in their thinking that a used Honda is a great deal that they pay entirely too much for one. Another reason is that BMWs are often purchased as status vehicles and as such people tend to want to drive late models with newer body styles.

Nope sorry. My wife and I have a 3 series, FIL has a 5 series, my brother has the X5 and NONE of us plans to buy another BMW. Do we like driving them, of course. But we've spent many recent family gatherings commiserating about the recurring repairs and costs. We also just had this same exact conversation with a group of neighbors at our 4th of July BBQ. It seems in my experience that this is what people keep saying because ACTUAL BMW owners will tell you they are costly vehicles to maintain. My extended family has been slowly switching to Audi's and Lexus. But several of us still have older Honda's, MDX's, and Toyota's that we rely on or let our kids drive.

Your anecdotes are just that, anecdotes - they are inconsequential in the face of broad statistics, which is what's used by Consumer Reports to give BMW a higher reliability rating than Honda. It's not just Consumer Reports either: JD Powers also ranks BMW higher in dependability than Honda: http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2018-us-vehicle-dependability-study. With regards to maintenance costs, I am not sure where the disagreement is: I acknowledged that BMWs cost more to repair and therefore has a higher cost of ownership. Did you actually read my post or just had an uncontrollable self-righteous urge to pound out a post because you think you know better.

So thank you for illustrating perfectly how personal bias is causing people to significantly over estimate the reliability of Hondas, leading to their irrationally high resale value.

Horseshit. If you seriously believe that a BMW is more reliable than a Honda you are delusional.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP, this thread illustrates the fact that vast majority people have little to no actual knowledge of what they talk about. They simply repeat what they've heard, or hold on to notions that are no longer true.

In general, vehicle reliability gap between different brands have narrowed significantly since the 80's and 90's, when there was a sizable gulf between Honda/Toyota and "the rest". With just a handful of notable exceptions, current selection of vehicles fall into a fairly small range of reliability. Note that Consumer Reports places BMW higher on their average reliability rating than Honda. I am sure either a new BMW or Honda would be similarly reliable, and any issues you encounter would be the exception rather than the rule.

That said, the cost of ownership for an older BMW will typically be higher due to more expensive repairs when they do happen. There are fewer budget oriented independent shops that work on BMWs versus those that fix Honda/Toyota.

As for why BMW typically has worse resale value, there are a multitude of reasons. The most significant of which is the incorrect perception that Hondas are such reliable cars. This perception is the reason why a used 2-3 year old Honda are usually sold with just a modest discount from an all-new price. People are so set in their thinking that a used Honda is a great deal that they pay entirely too much for one. Another reason is that BMWs are often purchased as status vehicles and as such people tend to want to drive late models with newer body styles.

Nope sorry. My wife and I have a 3 series, FIL has a 5 series, my brother has the X5 and NONE of us plans to buy another BMW. Do we like driving them, of course. But we've spent many recent family gatherings commiserating about the recurring repairs and costs. We also just had this same exact conversation with a group of neighbors at our 4th of July BBQ. It seems in my experience that this is what people keep saying because ACTUAL BMW owners will tell you they are costly vehicles to maintain. My extended family has been slowly switching to Audi's and Lexus. But several of us still have older Honda's, MDX's, and Toyota's that we rely on or let our kids drive.

Your anecdotes are just that, anecdotes - they are inconsequential in the face of broad statistics, which is what's used by Consumer Reports to give BMW a higher reliability rating than Honda. It's not just Consumer Reports either: JD Powers also ranks BMW higher in dependability than Honda: http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2018-us-vehicle-dependability-study. With regards to maintenance costs, I am not sure where the disagreement is: I acknowledged that BMWs cost more to repair and therefore has a higher cost of ownership. Did you actually read my post or just had an uncontrollable self-righteous urge to pound out a post because you think you know better.

So thank you for illustrating perfectly how personal bias is causing people to significantly over estimate the reliability of Hondas, leading to their irrationally high resale value.

NP. In May my 530e shut down in the middle of the toll road in rush hour. Simply powered down and stopped working, no warning. Just stopped. I was terrified and called 911. I never drove that car again. I lost my shot on that 60k car.

Say what you want, I'll never own one again. Lots of people have anecdotal stories about how much their BMWs suck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the OP, this thread illustrates the fact that vast majority people have little to no actual knowledge of what they talk about. They simply repeat what they've heard, or hold on to notions that are no longer true.

In general, vehicle reliability gap between different brands have narrowed significantly since the 80's and 90's, when there was a sizable gulf between Honda/Toyota and "the rest". With just a handful of notable exceptions, current selection of vehicles fall into a fairly small range of reliability. Note that Consumer Reports places BMW higher on their average reliability rating than Honda. I am sure either a new BMW or Honda would be similarly reliable, and any issues you encounter would be the exception rather than the rule.

That said, the cost of ownership for an older BMW will typically be higher due to more expensive repairs when they do happen. There are fewer budget oriented independent shops that work on BMWs versus those that fix Honda/Toyota.

As for why BMW typically has worse resale value, there are a multitude of reasons. The most significant of which is the incorrect perception that Hondas are such reliable cars. This perception is the reason why a used 2-3 year old Honda are usually sold with just a modest discount from an all-new price. People are so set in their thinking that a used Honda is a great deal that they pay entirely too much for one. Another reason is that BMWs are often purchased as status vehicles and as such people tend to want to drive late models with newer body styles.

Nope sorry. My wife and I have a 3 series, FIL has a 5 series, my brother has the X5 and NONE of us plans to buy another BMW. Do we like driving them, of course. But we've spent many recent family gatherings commiserating about the recurring repairs and costs. We also just had this same exact conversation with a group of neighbors at our 4th of July BBQ. It seems in my experience that this is what people keep saying because ACTUAL BMW owners will tell you they are costly vehicles to maintain. My extended family has been slowly switching to Audi's and Lexus. But several of us still have older Honda's, MDX's, and Toyota's that we rely on or let our kids drive.

Your anecdotes are just that, anecdotes - they are inconsequential in the face of broad statistics, which is what's used by Consumer Reports to give BMW a higher reliability rating than Honda. It's not just Consumer Reports either: JD Powers also ranks BMW higher in dependability than Honda: http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/jd-power-2018-us-vehicle-dependability-study. With regards to maintenance costs, I am not sure where the disagreement is: I acknowledged that BMWs cost more to repair and therefore has a higher cost of ownership. Did you actually read my post or just had an uncontrollable self-righteous urge to pound out a post because you think you know better.

So thank you for illustrating perfectly how personal bias is causing people to significantly over estimate the reliability of Hondas, leading to their irrationally high resale value.