Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My initial encounters with atheists were all with people who were angry with organized religion or the God they claimed not to believe in. As an adult, I met some people who were cultural atheists since birth and they weren’t angry, just smarmy and self-righteous. I keep waiting to meet in person the happy and tolerant-to-believers atheists that I read about online. I live in one of most diverse zip codes in a very well-educated county and am a hard core science fiction fan married to a STEM-doctorate so the problem isn’t that I live in a religious bubble. I’ve never preached at anyone whether they were a believer of a different faith or a non-believer so I’m not driving them away with my viewpoints. In fact, many of the atheists I met expressed shock that I’m religious.

I am guessing most such people self identify as agnostics, not atheists. Affirmatively denying theism, as opposed to just "there is no evidence, and maybe there can't be any evidence" seems to involve either A. A really intense interest in technical philosophy - which few have B. Being part of a larger ideology that affirms atheism, such as Marxism - but Marxism is pretty much moribound. C. Personal issues - often with represssive parents, etc.

I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

As a closeted atheist, I am tolerant of religious beliefs so I see no point in alienating people by being hardcore. I only have problems with certain aspects of organized religion which I won't get into here. I enjoy visiting churches and appreciating the architecture and find historical religious figures fascinating. I love relics, stained glass, and hymns. If you need faith to make it through this life, as long as you aren't hurting others or pushing your agenda, so be it.

I respect your choice, but wish you chose not to be closeted. THere's nothing "hardcore"' in acknowledging that you don't believe in god and as long as people keep quiet about it, it does not allow others to see that atheists are ordinary people who simply don't believe in a deity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

No, they don't. but mainstream christian church is pretty clear on this, at least if you're from the South! And I've been to a looooooot of church services.

I doubt most people would define southern evangelic churches as mainstream. Anglican is almost the definition of mainstream. or Presbyterian.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

Isn't it better to rationally explain that atheists can also be agnostic, and most are? Isn't it better if everyone who cares to understand is given the opportunity to?

agnostic claims neither a belief nor disbelief

athiest claims there is no god.

No, that is not true.

"Theist" means belief in a god or gods.

Atheist means "A-Theist" or, the opposite of theist. Without a belief in a god or gods.

"Gnostic" from the Greek "Gnosis" or "to know". "Agnostic" means "don't know".

So you can have no belief in god and you can also not know if there is one or not. They are not mutually exclusive.

I know the term has been misunderstood and misused, but if you meet or talk to any Atheists, you will find very few who claim "there is factually no god". They may say they find it highly unlikely, hence the lack of belief, but that is the position most take.

Even Richard Dawkins admits he can't prove there is no god:



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

Dawkins doesn't "admit" it, as if it's a sin or shortcoming. He states it, as he also did in his book and as ANY atheist would say. It only makes news because Dawkins is a famous scientist and outspoken atheist and people assume he thinks he can prove there is not a god.

I do not understand your point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

No, they don't. but mainstream christian church is pretty clear on this, at least if you're from the South! And I've been to a looooooot of church services.

If by mainstream you mean more conservative or evangelical Protestant churches, which many of us don't consider mainstream. Of course, I'm Catholic and had to attend a service at one of those churches where Catholicism was reviled, so I'm sure they think atheists are the devil incarnate.

Even the Pope has been quoted as saying that he is open to the idea that atheists may end up in heaven. Your post is the type of sweeping generalization that is wrong with this country right now.

The thread was how people learn about atheism. It doesn't matter to any adult alive right now that the pope said something slightly different. The truth is that most religious people learn about atheism from church (temple, mosque, etc) and those places are not usually presenting atheism as a reasonable option. I mean, really. Let's not be naive and think that everyone is going to congregational or universalist churches.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

Isn't it better to rationally explain that atheists can also be agnostic, and most are? Isn't it better if everyone who cares to understand is given the opportunity to?

agnostic claims neither a belief nor disbelief

athiest claims there is no god.

No, that is not true.

"Theist" means belief in a god or gods.

Atheist means "A-Theist" or, the opposite of theist. Without a belief in a god or gods.

"Gnostic" from the Greek "Gnosis" or "to know". "Agnostic" means "don't know".

So you can have no belief in god and you can also not know if there is one or not. They are not mutually exclusive.

I know the term has been misunderstood and misused, but if you meet or talk to any Atheists, you will find very few who claim "there is factually no god". They may say they find it highly unlikely, hence the lack of belief, but that is the position most take.

Even Richard Dawkins admits he can't prove there is no god:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

Dawkins doesn't "admit" it, as if it's a sin or shortcoming. He states it, as he also did in his book and as ANY atheist would say. It only makes news because Dawkins is a famous scientist and outspoken atheist and people assume he thinks he can prove there is not a god.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

NO, but many do and many are taught this Now that atheists are speaking up, fewer people think this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

No, they don't. but mainstream christian church is pretty clear on this, at least if you're from the South! And I've been to a looooooot of church services.

If by mainstream you mean more conservative or evangelical Protestant churches, which many of us don't consider mainstream. Of course, I'm Catholic and had to attend a service at one of those churches where Catholicism was reviled, so I'm sure they think atheists are the devil incarnate.

Even the Pope has been quoted as saying that he is open to the idea that atheists may end up in heaven. Your post is the type of sweeping generalization that is wrong with this country right now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

No, they don't. but mainstream christian church is pretty clear on this, at least if you're from the South! And I've been to a looooooot of church services.

Anonymous wrote:Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Not all religious people believe this.

Religious Christians learn about atheists at church. The Bible is full of stories about the people who turned away from God, even if the word "atheist" isn't used. And believe me, there is no benefit of the doubt for people who are atheists but still maybe good people. They are ALWAYS bad people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

Isn't it better to rationally explain that atheists can also be agnostic, and most are? Isn't it better if everyone who cares to understand is given the opportunity to?

agnostic claims neither a belief nor disbelief

athiest claims there is no god.

No, that is not true.

"Theist" means belief in a god or gods.

Atheist means "A-Theist" or, the opposite of theist. Without a belief in a god or gods.

"Gnostic" from the Greek "Gnosis" or "to know". "Agnostic" means "don't know".

So you can have no belief in god and you can also not know if there is one or not. They are not mutually exclusive.

I know the term has been misunderstood and misused, but if you meet or talk to any Atheists, you will find very few who claim "there is factually no god". They may say they find it highly unlikely, hence the lack of belief, but that is the position most take.

Even Richard Dawkins admits he can't prove there is no god:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

Isn't it better to rationally explain that atheists can also be agnostic, and most are? Isn't it better if everyone who cares to understand is given the opportunity to?

agnostic claims neither a belief nor disbelief

athiest claims there is no god.

Anonymous wrote:
I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

Isn't it better to rationally explain that atheists can also be agnostic, and most are? Isn't it better if everyone who cares to understand is given the opportunity to?

At some point as a child I learned through books or talking to people that those who don't believe in God are called atheists. By now I've realized that people have as many reasons for not believing in a higher power of any sort as there are ways that people believe or practice faith in something beyond themselves. How that lack of belief manifests itself in people's lives is as varied as manifestation of belief, and it's ignorant to ascribe broad generalized attributes either way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My initial encounters with atheists were all with people who were angry with organized religion or the God they claimed not to believe in. As an adult, I met some people who were cultural atheists since birth and they weren’t angry, just smarmy and self-righteous. I keep waiting to meet in person the happy and tolerant-to-believers atheists that I read about online. I live in one of most diverse zip codes in a very well-educated county and am a hard core science fiction fan married to a STEM-doctorate so the problem isn’t that I live in a religious bubble. I’ve never preached at anyone whether they were a believer of a different faith or a non-believer so I’m not driving them away with my viewpoints. In fact, many of the atheists I met expressed shock that I’m religious.

I am guessing most such people self identify as agnostics, not atheists. Affirmatively denying theism, as opposed to just "there is no evidence, and maybe there can't be any evidence" seems to involve either A. A really intense interest in technical philosophy - which few have B. Being part of a larger ideology that affirms atheism, such as Marxism - but Marxism is pretty much moribound. C. Personal issues - often with represssive parents, etc.

I think it appears less arrogant to religious people if you identify as agnostic; it's less divisive.

As a closeted atheist, I am tolerant of religious beliefs so I see no point in alienating people by being hardcore. I only have problems with certain aspects of organized religion which I won't get into here. I enjoy visiting churches and appreciating the architecture and find historical religious figures fascinating. I love relics, stained glass, and hymns. If you need faith to make it through this life, as long as you aren't hurting others or pushing your agenda, so be it.