I also fully agree that limiting the time the grandkids are in the house is a fair compromise, and the fact that FIL is not in agreement with this has made it very hard to implement but I think it is for the best.

Right, and I think this especially makes sense if there's not a ton for the kids to do at the house. My in laws don't really have any toys or things to entertain kids at their place. We try to be sure to get DS and his cousin (two years older) out of the house as much as possible when we are there, because they are too young to make polite conversation for hours on end (can do it for a while, but not all day) and there's not much to keep them occupied there. We brought a few board games, but that only really occupies and hour or two, not a full day.

OP, it sounds like you and your DH should organize a big get-together for extended family. It sounds like you'd enjoy that, and they probably would too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has your husband spoken directly to his father about the faux MIL? What is his response?

OP again. I have to say, first, that I am genuinely appreciating having a forum to vent and consider all of this anonymously!

Up until about a month ago, no. I honestly think this is one of the big issues because at this point we are dealing with patterns that go back for a decade. DH and FIL have had 2 brief conversations in the past couple months in which DH has expressed our feeling unwelcome and FIL has expressed at least mild surprise. Most recently, DH pointed out that GF does not seem to enjoy having our kids around and FIL replied along the lines of "in her defense, your kids don't run to greet her when she walks in the room."

This kind of attitude so drives me bananas!

I have a brother who didn't visit me once between when my kids were babies until they were about 8. Then he saw them once or twice til now when they are 10 and 13. And he complains to my mom about how he has made an effort to create a bond, but my son just doesn't respond to him. Blaming it on my son! Some people just expect kids to fall in line with their expectations without making any effort to get to know them as individuals.

Anonymous wrote:

I was trying to keep this about the current dilemma but GF is generally quite guarded about her own life and also can be kind of tough in conversation. Honestly it's only recently dawned on me that apart from her general anxiety and tendency toward awkward comments (noted by not just us but all of DH's extended family) she actually might just really not like me, in particular. And/or might feel that all of the 5 (pretty normal in every way I can think of) grandkids are somehow "problem" children.

Well, it sounds like neither of you particularly like one another, but that doesn't really matter. You're adults, you have to deal with each other if you're going to go there to visit FIL. It sounds like her way of dealing with the fact that she doesn't like kids is to limit the amount of time that they spend in the house when you visit. That's not an entirely unreasonable solution.

OP again. I agree with this--whether or not we genuinely like one another doesn't matter. DH is very much on that page too. This is the person FIL is with and we have to get along. It definitely feels like a change--I would say GF and I got along very well up until maybe a couple of years ago? But part of what I'm looking for is a way to make it more likely that we do get along.

The suggestions I'm getting seem very in line with what DH and I have discussed--FIL coming here more, us going there less and staying in a hotel/BnB when we do. I also fully agree that limiting the time the grandkids are in the house is a fair compromise, and the fact that FIL is not in agreement with this has made it very hard to implement but I think it is for the best.

Anonymous wrote:

I was trying to keep this about the current dilemma but GF is generally quite guarded about her own life and also can be kind of tough in conversation. Honestly it's only recently dawned on me that apart from her general anxiety and tendency toward awkward comments (noted by not just us but all of DH's extended family) she actually might just really not like me, in particular. And/or might feel that all of the 5 (pretty normal in every way I can think of) grandkids are somehow "problem" children.

Well, it sounds like neither of you particularly like one another, but that doesn't really matter. You're adults, you have to deal with each other if you're going to go there to visit FIL. It sounds like her way of dealing with the fact that she doesn't like kids is to limit the amount of time that they spend in the house when you visit. That's not an entirely unreasonable solution.

Agreed. Her & FIL's house, her & FIL's rules. If FIL feels strongly enough that he wants to approach GF about changing the rules then he will. Otherwise it is what it is no matter how much you don't like it, OP!

I was trying to keep this about the current dilemma but GF is generally quite guarded about her own life and also can be kind of tough in conversation. Honestly it's only recently dawned on me that apart from her general anxiety and tendency toward awkward comments (noted by not just us but all of DH's extended family) she actually might just really not like me, in particular. And/or might feel that all of the 5 (pretty normal in every way I can think of) grandkids are somehow "problem" children.

Well, it sounds like neither of you particularly like one another, but that doesn't really matter. You're adults, you have to deal with each other if you're going to go there to visit FIL. It sounds like her way of dealing with the fact that she doesn't like kids is to limit the amount of time that they spend in the house when you visit. That's not an entirely unreasonable solution.

OP, I have read all the posts, yours especially. It seems like people have given you a lot of very good suggestions. I have not seen a single suggestion that you have whole-heartedly or even half-a**ed embraced.

You want to visit your FIL on YOUR terms and it doesn't seem like anything else will do. I say this because for every suggestion that has been put forward, you've given a "reason" (read excuse) why that suggestion won't work.

At this point I think you need to reconcile yourself to the fact that you are entrenched in your perspective. It really seems as though it is your way or the highway, baby.

If you truly want to change the status quo then you need to make the first change. When you're ready to do that, come back and read the responses you've gotten by all the posters. There is no doubt in my mind that some of these suggestions will work when you're willing to make them work!

Anonymous wrote:I think you can justify not visiting and having FIL visit more often.

It sounds like she has anxiety and/or doesn’t like kids, guessing a bit of both. The limited hours really sound like anxiety.

It *also* sounds like she does all the work of hosting and not FIL, yes? That might be part of it.

Talk with your DH: if he wants to speak up, he should, and regardless I think you stop visiting them as a family.

Yes, not sure what you should do but I don't think you should take this personally. There is something psychologically off with her. You don't have to accommodate it but I suspect it is not aimed specifically at you. I do feel sorry for your FIL, though, because I bet this puts real limits on his life in other ways besides family visits. I would encourage him to come visit you more often and give him some time free of his GF.

Anonymous wrote:Another, slightly outside the box, suggestion. Maybe your immediate family and your DH's sibling's immediate family can plan a vacation together where FIL and his GF can drop in. Get a beach house with room for everyone (if that's possible for you all). FIL and GF can stay at a nearby hotel if they prefer. Cousins have bonding time. FIL has grandpa time. GF can check out if she needs/wants to.

Sometimes it's easier when no one is on their home turf.

OP again. Don't you hate it when you make a great suggestion and the OP says "yeah but..."? This is a great suggestion, and 1-2 years ago (can't recall now) my DH and BIL came up with this very idea. We suggested it to FIL--get a big beach house for kids/grandkids, GF and FIL stay in a hotel or condo, we can hang out some, do our own thing some...FIL was actually the one who said NO! We were collectively shocked. I thought it was SUCH a good idea. And maybe someday he'll think it sounds better but he seemed to find it unappealing.

I will mention that FIL and GF live near a cool city with lots to do, and in the past DH, DC and I have stayed at a hotel in the city and FIL has come in for the day which has worked great. I mentioned the other day to DH that maybe our next visit "there" would not be to FIL's house but rather to a hotel or air BnB in the city where he can easily come in for a full day, or part of each day, whatever but we can also see nearby extended family with or without FIL.

Generally speaking we have gone to him/them 2-4 times a year since my oldest DC was born.

If you're only going there 2 to 4 times a year at present, move the number of visits towards the lower end of that scale, and find some other activities to do in the area when you aren't in their house. It's not worth investing this much emotional energy into. It sounds like your FIL's girlfriend is a bit of a pill and doesn't like kids, but other than retracting the party invite, it doesn't sounds like she's doing anything completely outside the realm of acceptable behavior.

Anonymous wrote:OP, It sounds like you are certain there is no malevolence here. Am I correct? In my case, I noticed an increase in step-mom's hostility that turned out to be coordinated with a meeting with their lawyer about the will (I wasn't present for the estate discussions).

Assuming no malevolence, are there things you could do like play mini golf with grandpa that extend the visit time but give her a break?

I'm actually not sure. I was trying to keep this about the current dilemma but GF is generally quite guarded about her own life and also can be kind of tough in conversation. Honestly it's only recently dawned on me that apart from her general anxiety and tendency toward awkward comments (noted by not just us but all of DH's extended family) she actually might just really not like me, in particular. And/or might feel that all of the 5 (pretty normal in every way I can think of) grandkids are somehow "problem" children. There is not a lot of transparency around this and as a PP noted she and FIL are for SURE not on the same page about certain things which I know contributes.

Honestly we have looked at air BnBs but they are few and far between near FIL's home. But this is a good suggestion and one DH and I have considered, and will again. Hosting FIL in a hotel, which we have done on some occasions, can be tough with kids.

Can you try to plan your visits around nicer weather and do things with him outside, so that you don't need to be in their house for most of the visit? I remember growing up that my great uncle (who was like a grandfather to me) married a woman who didn't like children later in life, and wondering why she seemed unfriendly to me. Now that I'm an adult who doesn't particularly enjoy spending time with kids that aren't mine, I can much better understand where she was coming from.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds to me like there already are a plentiful amount of boundaries in place and that perhaps you need fewer, not more. What further boundaries do you envision other than those already set by your FIL's GF?

If it is so stressful to your FIL's GF to host you then he should begin visiting you more often, either with or without his GF. Perhaps if she is socializing with your children when she doesn't have the burden of entertaining, she might find it easier. It does sound like she bears most of the load when they issue invitations to their home.

In the meantime, begin doing more of the asking and hosting. Your FIL can decide if he wants to take you up on your offer or not. But don't close the door on him just because you're chafing at his GF's boundary setting.

Good points. I very much want my kids to have a strong relationship with my FIL. Generally speaking we have gone to him/them 2-4 times a year since my oldest DC was born. We have also extended many invitations for FIL to come and in the past he came to visit quite a bit. My issue with the GF is not that we need better or clearer boundaries from her but rather that I feel my DH, BIL/SIL and I have generally tried to accommodate her every request, to the extent that I think it is beyond reasonable, without setting any boundaries in response. For example, driving 10+ hours round trip to be told we can’t visit in their home for more than 2-3 hours and sometimes not at all, meaning our only time with FIL is hosting him in our hotel room or meeting at a restaurant.

I certainly don’t feel we can dictate how or when we are at their home but feel like it’s reasonable to say at some point that we don’t feel welcome, rather than just not going anymore at all.

Why do you have to say that? Why can't you just begin asking your FIL to your house? My point is that you don't have to make this into a fight or a tug-of-war. Just begin changing the parameters by asking your FIL to your home more often. Hey, Dad, why don't you come to Laslo's soccer game on Saturday, stay the night, have breakfast with us and then either head home or go to the pool? or It is Laslo's birthday on Sunday and we're going to have a little family celebration. Do you want to come? You're more than welcome to spend the night Sunday if you don't want to drive home in the dark. or We haven't seen you in a while. Would you like to come for the weekend? The kids would love to take you to the park and we can grab dinner at xxx Saturday night. Not everything has to be a fight and not everything has to be you laying down the law. Just start upping your game by issuing more invitations.

I am the OP. We have issued FIL an open invitation since DC1 was born--meaning we literally said that as long as we had a little notice he could stay any time. He did this often in the past, without GF. In the past 2-3 years, we as well as BIL/SIL (who do not live near us, or near FIL/GF) that he visits less and less often, even if given a specific invitation as the ones you are mentioning. I suspect this is because his vision is not as good and he worries about making the 4-5 hour drive alone each way. When we have said in the past "we would love to have you here for _____" he has replied "I would love to have you come up here." I am very much trying not to make this a fight, have never exchanged an unkind word with FIL or GF. We have issued more invitations and up until DH told FIL that we feel unwelcome he was not taking us up on many.

Anonymous wrote:The good news is that this is a faux-MIL and not an actual MIL. If/when your FIL needs caregiving, unless he's given her power of attorney for health/finances, it will be your DH and his sibling that make the decisions. I suggest you have your DH and his sibling have a frank discussion with their father about ALL of this. It will take some delicacy but you have a legitimate concern that with POA (or a marriage), she could exclude you from your FIL's life if he is incapacitated.

Instead of a hotel, could you get an AirBnB? when you visit? If so, you could get a bed/room for your FIL and you could hang out to your heart's content in a 'home-like' environment.

OP again. FIL is a well-prepared sort of guy and has made a sibling his POA for these issues. There are very specific documents about who can decide what. Though they aren't married they also have documents stipulating who can get what in the event he is incapacitated and how his finances would be managed in that event.

Honestly we have looked at air BnBs but they are few and far between near FIL's home. But this is a good suggestion and one DH and I have considered, and will again. Hosting FIL in a hotel, which we have done on some occasions, can be tough with kids.

Anonymous wrote:This post needs a TL;DR. As a general rule, OP, any situation can be summed up in a paragraph, maybe two at the most; if people need more information, they can ask questions. When something gets to be this long, it tends to suggest the poster is steeped in the drama, which further tends to point to the poster as being an active part of the problem.

NP. Oh yay! The grouchy, knows everything growl face PP is here! Full of contrived conclusions based on .......nothing but her own miserable unhappiness and general depression(you see how two can project and make unbased conclusions about people they do not know anything about?) I think rather than use DCUM to treat your negativity and depression, you should find a psychiatrist to prescribe your something. Two can play this game, you know!