Anonymous wrote:I find this entire thread sad, and indicative of why kids are confused nowadays. Extrapolating everything out to the nth degree is what gets us idiots shaming girls for wearing a non-western styled dress for “insensitive cultural appropriation”. You should not make everything a moral equivalent. Teaching kids social graces in a middle school dance is not the same as consenting to an intimate sexual relationship. It just isn’t.

By teaching them that it’s all the same, you are not teaching them how to recognize and navigate complexity. You are teaching them that everything is a Big Deal and no critical thinking is necessary. Just fall back onto stereotypes, view everything in a particular context or single narrative (gender, race, whatever), and scream away whenever a situation doesn’t fall into your particular version of reality.

I’m teaching my kid not to be a mean girl and gang up and giggle on the kid who isn’t the prettiest jock in the school. Unless there is a known history of the other person being a total jerk to you, you always be kind and try something once. So yes, for a MS dance, absent some compelling circumstance, you say yes. My son will be the same message when he hits that age.

OMYGOSH FINALLY a voice of reason here! THANK YOU!
If your child can't politely agree to dance with some kid (boy or girl) who plucks up the courage to ask him/her as everyone is watching (and they DO watch...haven't you guys ever been to middle school before? It's like crossing the Great Divide...the long march to make the ask! ugh!), then maybe they shouldn't go to the dance.
Even at cotillion as a kid, the one big lesson that the ettiquette lady taught the girls AND boys is that you don't decline a dance from someone just because you don't fancy them. You can decline a SECOND dance, but that is after you have already danced once. It's just rude and cruel to say no at a public dance/banquet/whatever when someone asks you to dance. You don't have to like the person...but you don't make a face or decline. And at the end of the dance, you politely say "thank you" and walk away. If he/she asks again, you can say "no, but thank you for asking". (Obviously the "can/can't"s here refer to polite etiquette. In reality, of course you can do whatever you want...but it might be rude.)

THIS IS DANCING ETIQUETTE...not rules for sexual engagement, people. There are societal norms that have nothing to do with the #metoo movement and everything to do with basic decency.

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Anonymous wrote:" I really, really hope that these weren't women who believe this although I suspect it is. You teach your children to be polite if they are going to reject someone, you don't teach them that they should disregard their feelings because someone else's are more important."

Wow, just wow. The second part of this is exactly correct.

The first part, wow. Why did you need to add this?

Who cares who stated the bad idea? And doubly who cares what you suspect...

I'll tell you why it matters. Because we Women (don't know if you're one) have traditionally been brought up to be more concerned with other people's things than what we want. And I hope that modern women aren't doing that to their daughters. I am shocked you would find that such a difficult concept!

DP. I hope you're preparing your daughter for the embarrassment of rejection, should she ever be brave enough to ask a boy to dance, or invite a boy to a school dance. Because obviously, boys should be equally able to say no to someone they don't want to dance with. Right?

Of course girls should be prepared for rejection! A boy shouldn't feel any more obligated to go than a girl.

Really having difficulty understanding your point, if you have one.

I do believe the point was that these threads usually devolve into some posters insisting girls can say no to things like this (dances, etc.), but that it would be rude for the boy to do the same. The point is that either gender should be allowed to *politely* decline.

Usually devolve to this? Um, no.

DP, but actually, yes. This happens all the time on DCUM. Maybe you’re new here?

Not new. Maybe you're just being defensive. Or oversensitive. Anyway, to suggest there is some bias or whatever you're implying against boys is idiotic.

Nope. Here on DCUM, we get posters all.the.time. who want to paint boys and men as these lecherous sleazebags who don't deserve the time of day. Most men and boys are decent human beings, and it's worth pointing out when posters go down that road, as they often do.

Anonymous wrote:I find this entire thread sad, and indicative of why kids are confused nowadays. Extrapolating everything out to the nth degree is what gets us idiots shaming girls for wearing a non-western styled dress for “insensitive cultural appropriation”. You should not make everything a moral equivalent. Teaching kids social graces in a middle school dance is not the same as consenting to an intimate sexual relationship. It just isn’t.

By teaching them that it’s all the same, you are not teaching them how to recognize and navigate complexity. You are teaching them that everything is a Big Deal and no critical thinking is necessary. Just fall back onto stereotypes, view everything in a particular context or single narrative (gender, race, whatever), and scream away whenever a situation doesn’t fall into your particular version of reality.

I’m teaching my kid not to be a mean girl and gang up and giggle on the kid who isn’t the prettiest jock in the school. Unless there is a known history of the other person being a total jerk to you, you always be kind and try something once. So yes, for a MS dance, absent some compelling circumstance, you say yes. My son will be the same message when he hits that age.

+100
THANK YOU for interjecting some much needed common sense to this thread. Honestly, only on DCUM would you find people insisting that accepting an invitation to dance is tantamount to having sex. Is there no nuance, no critical thinking anymore?

I have always urged my kids - both boys AND girls - to accept an invitation to dance. Frankly, it's rude not to, unless it's someone who has done something aggressive or inappropriate before. Then of course it's perfectly fine to decline. That's called "nuance." Otherwise, assuming a nice, normal person, it's just considerate to say yes to a dance. It's NO BIG DEAL, but more importantly, it's a kindness.

Go to MS dance as a group. Dance with everyone. Why is this hard?

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I really, really hope that these weren't women who believe this although I suspect it is. You teach your children to be polite if they are going to reject someone, you don't teach them that they should disregard their feelings because someone else's are more important."

Wow, just wow. The second part of this is exactly correct.

The first part, wow. Why did you need to add this?

Who cares who stated the bad idea? And doubly who cares what you suspect...

I'll tell you why it matters. Because we Women (don't know if you're one) have traditionally been brought up to be more concerned with other people's things than what we want. And I hope that modern women aren't doing that to their daughters. I am shocked you would find that such a difficult concept!

DP. I hope you're preparing your daughter for the embarrassment of rejection, should she ever be brave enough to ask a boy to dance, or invite a boy to a school dance. Because obviously, boys should be equally able to say no to someone they don't want to dance with. Right?

Of course girls should be prepared for rejection! A boy shouldn't feel any more obligated to go than a girl.

Really having difficulty understanding your point, if you have one.

I do believe the point was that these threads usually devolve into some posters insisting girls can say no to things like this (dances, etc.), but that it would be rude for the boy to do the same. The point is that either gender should be allowed to *politely* decline.

Usually devolve to this? Um, no.

DP, but actually, yes. This happens all the time on DCUM. Maybe you’re new here?

Not new. Maybe you're just being defensive. Or oversensitive. Anyway, to suggest there is some bias or whatever you're implying against boys is idiotic.

Kids in middle school (and HS) are generally not going to walk up and ask another kid to dance unless they are pretty darned sure that the other kid will say "yes".

Social cues like making eye contact across the room and smiling will tell the other kid that you are interested in dancing with them. At least that is generally how it works.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I really, really hope that these weren't women who believe this although I suspect it is. You teach your children to be polite if they are going to reject someone, you don't teach them that they should disregard their feelings because someone else's are more important."

Wow, just wow. The second part of this is exactly correct.

The first part, wow. Why did you need to add this?

Who cares who stated the bad idea? And doubly who cares what you suspect...

I'll tell you why it matters. Because we Women (don't know if you're one) have traditionally been brought up to be more concerned with other people's things than what we want. And I hope that modern women aren't doing that to their daughters. I am shocked you would find that such a difficult concept!

Isn't that really what all manners are about though?

+1

And that's why the world would be a better place if it were ruled by women...because we are concerned about other people's feelings. I wouldn't discredit that quality. Anyway, if you don't want to dance with someone, don't do it. But if it's a nice boy or girl and they've worked up the courage to ask, then I would hope my kid would say yes. I would hope my kid would have the confidence to do that.

+100

I diagree. Doesn't matter if the boy or girl is nice if you don't want to spend time with them!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Maybe later" or "maybe another time" is a soft no but it depends on how persistent the asker might be.

Also why aren't girls asking boys to dance?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, people?

Liston, PP, your perceptions are stuck in the olden days. I have a middle school daughter and a high school son and I can ASSURE you that girls these days have no problems asking boys for whatever they want. Girls are wayyyyy more aggressive and outgoing than boys these days. In fact its pretty obnoxious.

My 8th grade boy got a topless picture texted to him from a female classmate. He immediately told me because he has been hammered about proper internet usage. Girls are sexually aggressive these days. Asking a boy to dance? Ha! How about asking him to grind is more like it.

That was one girl and now all girls are labeled inappropriate? You claim that boys are being unfairly painted with a wide brush and yet if you look in the mirror you are doing the same!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I really, really hope that these weren't women who believe this although I suspect it is. You teach your children to be polite if they are going to reject someone, you don't teach them that they should disregard their feelings because someone else's are more important."

Wow, just wow. The second part of this is exactly correct.

The first part, wow. Why did you need to add this?

Who cares who stated the bad idea? And doubly who cares what you suspect...

I'll tell you why it matters. Because we Women (don't know if you're one) have traditionally been brought up to be more concerned with other people's things than what we want. And I hope that modern women aren't doing that to their daughters. I am shocked you would find that such a difficult concept!

DP. I hope you're preparing your daughter for the embarrassment of rejection, should she ever be brave enough to ask a boy to dance, or invite a boy to a school dance. Because obviously, boys should be equally able to say no to someone they don't want to dance with. Right?

Np. Of course, boys can say no. They usually have no problem in our society so what's the worry?

I find this entire thread sad, and indicative of why kids are confused nowadays. Extrapolating everything out to the nth degree is what gets us idiots shaming girls for wearing a non-western styled dress for “insensitive cultural appropriation”. You should not make everything a moral equivalent. Teaching kids social graces in a middle school dance is not the same as consenting to an intimate sexual relationship. It just isn’t.

By teaching them that it’s all the same, you are not teaching them how to recognize and navigate complexity. You are teaching them that everything is a Big Deal and no critical thinking is necessary. Just fall back onto stereotypes, view everything in a particular context or single narrative (gender, race, whatever), and scream away whenever a situation doesn’t fall into your particular version of reality.

I’m teaching my kid not to be a mean girl and gang up and giggle on the kid who isn’t the prettiest jock in the school. Unless there is a known history of the other person being a total jerk to you, you always be kind and try something once. So yes, for a MS dance, absent some compelling circumstance, you say yes. My son will be the same message when he hits that age.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I really, really hope that these weren't women who believe this although I suspect it is. You teach your children to be polite if they are going to reject someone, you don't teach them that they should disregard their feelings because someone else's are more important."

Wow, just wow. The second part of this is exactly correct.

The first part, wow. Why did you need to add this?

Who cares who stated the bad idea? And doubly who cares what you suspect...

I'll tell you why it matters. Because we Women (don't know if you're one) have traditionally been brought up to be more concerned with other people's things than what we want. And I hope that modern women aren't doing that to their daughters. I am shocked you would find that such a difficult concept!

Isn't that really what all manners are about though?

+1

And that's why the world would be a better place if it were ruled by women...because we are concerned about other people's feelings. I wouldn't discredit that quality. Anyway, if you don't want to dance with someone, don't do it. But if it's a nice boy or girl and they've worked up the courage to ask, then I would hope my kid would say yes. I would hope my kid would have the confidence to do that.

Actually this thread and responses like yours demonstrates exactly why woman still have a long way to go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Maybe later" or "maybe another time" is a soft no but it depends on how persistent the asker might be.

Also why aren't girls asking boys to dance?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, people?

Liston, PP, your perceptions are stuck in the olden days. I have a middle school daughter and a high school son and I can ASSURE you that girls these days have no problems asking boys for whatever they want. Girls are wayyyyy more aggressive and outgoing than boys these days. In fact its pretty obnoxious.

My 8th grade boy got a topless picture texted to him from a female classmate. He immediately told me because he has been hammered about proper internet usage. Girls are sexually aggressive these days. Asking a boy to dance? Ha! How about asking him to grind is more like it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I really, really hope that these weren't women who believe this although I suspect it is. You teach your children to be polite if they are going to reject someone, you don't teach them that they should disregard their feelings because someone else's are more important."

Wow, just wow. The second part of this is exactly correct.

The first part, wow. Why did you need to add this?

Who cares who stated the bad idea? And doubly who cares what you suspect...

I'll tell you why it matters. Because we Women (don't know if you're one) have traditionally been brought up to be more concerned with other people's things than what we want. And I hope that modern women aren't doing that to their daughters. I am shocked you would find that such a difficult concept!

DP. I hope you're preparing your daughter for the embarrassment of rejection, should she ever be brave enough to ask a boy to dance, or invite a boy to a school dance. Because obviously, boys should be equally able to say no to someone they don't want to dance with. Right?

Yes, correct. ALL genders have a right to say no. Why are you ateuggling?

Anonymous wrote:At dinner the other night with friends, we were talking about the MS dances that our kids have begun attending. Two sets of parents felt that when asked, you should never say no to a request to dance. Whether it is a boy or a girl who asks the other person to dance, they felt that it takes a lot of courage to ask and that it is rude to say no, and that you should always say yes so as to not hurt the other persons feelings. They argued that MS dancing isn't really close (physically) and that you can do it for 3 minutes, 'it's not a big deal'. I am curious what others think.

This is so unhealthy, I do not even know where to start. Making your kids do this teaches them that they are responsible for other people's feelings. Nope nope. Nope. Bad parenting that is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" I really, really hope that these weren't women who believe this although I suspect it is. You teach your children to be polite if they are going to reject someone, you don't teach them that they should disregard their feelings because someone else's are more important."

Wow, just wow. The second part of this is exactly correct.

The first part, wow. Why did you need to add this?

Who cares who stated the bad idea? And doubly who cares what you suspect...

I'll tell you why it matters. Because we Women (don't know if you're one) have traditionally been brought up to be more concerned with other people's things than what we want. And I hope that modern women aren't doing that to their daughters. I am shocked you would find that such a difficult concept!

Isn't that really what all manners are about though?

+1

And that's why the world would be a better place if it were ruled by women...because we are concerned about other people's feelings. I wouldn't discredit that quality. Anyway, if you don't want to dance with someone, don't do it. But if it's a nice boy or girl and they've worked up the courage to ask, then I would hope my kid would say yes. I would hope my kid would have the confidence to do that.

+100