Anonymous
Post 04/25/2018 16:56     Subject: should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't get an actual copy of the test unless you have the appropriate license. The publishing companies go to great lengths to keep the tests secure so they are valid.

There are some disreputable companies who try their hardest to duplicate the test in order to prep kids and allegedly boost their performance. There is no actual evidence this works. Also, the second your child starts saying things like "Oh, yeah, these puzzles again!" and "I practiced questions like this with my tutor Miss Judy." the psychologist will know your child was prepped. They will either stop testing, or put language in the report indicating that the scores may be invalid or artificially inflated.

As for playing and doing puzzles with your child, knock yourself out. These activities are unlikely to affect your child's performance, though.


If there is no evidence that that works, why would it then invalidate the test?


Because it is cheating and the norms are based on children who did not prep! Thus, the score is invalid!


Yes. The tests are not normed on children who have had multiple exposures to them, so it is difficult to interpret scores of children who have been exposed to the test materials inappropriately. In real life situations you do not give the same child the same IQ test within a 6 month-1 year time period because their scores MAY be affected due to practice effects.

So, putting aside all ethics, if you choose to prep your child using materials from a company who has unethically tried to replicate the IQ test, your child might have a slight boost in scores due to practice effects. Or they may not. Or their scores may go down because the practice they did was just different enough they are confused about what is actually expected of them. Or they are bored with it. There are lots of ways this plan can go wrong. Including the child alerting the examiner to their practice, which, ethically, the examiner is required to address, either by stopping testing or by noting in the final report that the scores may be invalid.
Anonymous
Post 04/25/2018 14:33     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is simply a culture of cheating that is invading American schools. I don't know that it's possible to describe to them why this is cheating. Where most of us would say that these tests are designed to place children where they should be in schools according to their aptitudes, these folks are saying that the point of the test is to decide who wins, and they want to win.


The Chinese are coming! The Chinese are coming! Run Chicken little! Run!


No one is invading you. Unfortunately the Americans have chosen to be lazy and talk about feelings all day long, whereas the Chinese are busy working on stuff that matters. I am not Chinese, but I do highly respect their work ethic and dedication.

You keep talking about ethics, but ethics are highly subjective and dictated by cultural norms. If you don't want other people's culture, close your borders! You can't expect to have people work for you and then give up on what gives them the competitive edge. All I read here is that it is not the right thing to do, but no one explains why.

It's kind of those 'we don't do that in America' statements. You talk against prepping, but you don't acknowledge the prepping that you do. Why do you think that the IQ of the general population increases from year to year? Why do you think that American IQ is leveling off? Because people prep with all of their extracurricular activities, but that according to your standard that is ethical, because it is not for the purpose of increasing test IQ but general intelligence. What a bogus philosophy.

In the meanwhile you are afraid of the Chinese, because they are not afraid of putting in the work.


In our culture and worldwide, IQ is fluid and somewhat changeable but is also innate. It is not something that you study for to increase, or at least not by prepping. IQ is supposed to measure general intelligence, not ability. Some people are naturally more flexible or taller. Some people have naturally higher IQ. That doesn't mean they will do better in life or in academics -- IQ is only somewhat related to those things. Work ethic and dedication are just as important, if not moreso. But they are not the same thing as IQ, which is what you seem to be saying.
Anonymous
Post 04/25/2018 14:07     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is simply a culture of cheating that is invading American schools. I don't know that it's possible to describe to them why this is cheating. Where most of us would say that these tests are designed to place children where they should be in schools according to their aptitudes, these folks are saying that the point of the test is to decide who wins, and they want to win.


The Chinese are coming! The Chinese are coming! Run Chicken little! Run!


No one is invading you. Unfortunately the Americans have chosen to be lazy and talk about feelings all day long, whereas the Chinese are busy working on stuff that matters. I am not Chinese, but I do highly respect their work ethic and dedication.

You keep talking about ethics, but ethics are highly subjective and dictated by cultural norms. If you don't want other people's culture, close your borders! You can't expect to have people work for you and then give up on what gives them the competitive edge. All I read here is that it is not the right thing to do, but no one explains why.

It's kind of those 'we don't do that in America' statements. You talk against prepping, but you don't acknowledge the prepping that you do. Why do you think that the IQ of the general population increases from year to year? Why do you think that American IQ is leveling off? Because people prep with all of their extracurricular activities, but that according to your standard that is ethical, because it is not for the purpose of increasing test IQ but general intelligence. What a bogus philosophy.

In the meanwhile you are afraid of the Chinese, because they are not afraid of putting in the work.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 22:43     Subject: should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't get an actual copy of the test unless you have the appropriate license. The publishing companies go to great lengths to keep the tests secure so they are valid.

There are some disreputable companies who try their hardest to duplicate the test in order to prep kids and allegedly boost their performance. There is no actual evidence this works. Also, the second your child starts saying things like "Oh, yeah, these puzzles again!" and "I practiced questions like this with my tutor Miss Judy." the psychologist will know your child was prepped. They will either stop testing, or put language in the report indicating that the scores may be invalid or artificially inflated.

As for playing and doing puzzles with your child, knock yourself out. These activities are unlikely to affect your child's performance, though.


If there is no evidence that that works, why would it then invalidate the test?


Because it is cheating and the norms are based on children who did not prep! Thus, the score is invalid!


And yet, these same people will pay thousands for someone to pick the right schools, decide on the ECs the kids need to do and pretty much write the college essays for their kids. That's not cheating. Okey, dokey.

You’re equating deciding on your kids’ extra curriculars and helping with a college essay to prepping for an IQ test?!

Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 22:20     Subject: should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't get an actual copy of the test unless you have the appropriate license. The publishing companies go to great lengths to keep the tests secure so they are valid.

There are some disreputable companies who try their hardest to duplicate the test in order to prep kids and allegedly boost their performance. There is no actual evidence this works. Also, the second your child starts saying things like "Oh, yeah, these puzzles again!" and "I practiced questions like this with my tutor Miss Judy." the psychologist will know your child was prepped. They will either stop testing, or put language in the report indicating that the scores may be invalid or artificially inflated.

As for playing and doing puzzles with your child, knock yourself out. These activities are unlikely to affect your child's performance, though.


If there is no evidence that that works, why would it then invalidate the test?


Because it is cheating and the norms are based on children who did not prep! Thus, the score is invalid!


And yet, these same people will pay thousands for someone to pick the right schools, decide on the ECs the kids need to do and pretty much write the college essays for their kids. That's not cheating. Okey, dokey.

Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 22:17     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:There is simply a culture of cheating that is invading American schools. I don't know that it's possible to describe to them why this is cheating. Where most of us would say that these tests are designed to place children where they should be in schools according to their aptitudes, these folks are saying that the point of the test is to decide who wins, and they want to win.


The Chinese are coming! The Chinese are coming! Run Chicken little! Run!
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 21:14     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's correct! Reproducing copywriten material without permission is illegal.

I'm sure companies like Testing Mom don't have THE test, because that'd be illegal, and the IQ test maker would see to that.

So if test prep companies don't have THE test, and you are prepping with general materials, what's the problem?


Because IQ tests are not the sort of tests that one preps for. That's the problem.


You keep going into circular logic:

You don't prep for the iq test because it's unethical!
You don't steal the test because that's illegal!
Using copyrighted materials without permission is illegal.
You don't use un copyrighted materials, because that's not what you're supposed to do!


Ok, lady. The insane asylum wagon is coming to pick you up now...


Stop hallucinating!

Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 20:35     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's correct! Reproducing copywriten material without permission is illegal.

I'm sure companies like Testing Mom don't have THE test, because that'd be illegal, and the IQ test maker would see to that.

So if test prep companies don't have THE test, and you are prepping with general materials, what's the problem?


Because IQ tests are not the sort of tests that one preps for. That's the problem.


You keep going into circular logic:

You don't prep for the iq test because it's unethical!
You don't steal the test because that's illegal!
Using copyrighted materials without permission is illegal.
You don't use un copyrighted materials, because that's not what you're supposed to do!


Ok, lady. The insane asylum wagon is coming to pick you up now...
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 19:44     Subject: should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't get an actual copy of the test unless you have the appropriate license. The publishing companies go to great lengths to keep the tests secure so they are valid.

There are some disreputable companies who try their hardest to duplicate the test in order to prep kids and allegedly boost their performance. There is no actual evidence this works. Also, the second your child starts saying things like "Oh, yeah, these puzzles again!" and "I practiced questions like this with my tutor Miss Judy." the psychologist will know your child was prepped. They will either stop testing, or put language in the report indicating that the scores may be invalid or artificially inflated.

As for playing and doing puzzles with your child, knock yourself out. These activities are unlikely to affect your child's performance, though.


If there is no evidence that that works, why would it then invalidate the test?


Because it is cheating and the norms are based on children who did not prep! Thus, the score is invalid!
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 19:10     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
There is simply a culture of cheating that is invading American schools. I don't know that it's possible to describe to them why this is cheating. Where most of us would say that these tests are designed to place children where they should be in schools according to their aptitudes, these folks are saying that the point of the test is to decide who wins, and they want to win.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 19:04     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's correct! Reproducing copywriten material without permission is illegal.

I'm sure companies like Testing Mom don't have THE test, because that'd be illegal, and the IQ test maker would see to that.

So if test prep companies don't have THE test, and you are prepping with general materials, what's the problem?


Because IQ tests are not the sort of tests that one preps for. That's the problem.


You keep going into circular logic:

You don't prep for the iq test because it's unethical!
You don't steal the test because that's illegal!
Using copyrighted materials without permission is illegal.
You don't use un copyrighted materials, because that's not what you're supposed to do!


Various posters have answered you in detail and with specifics. You ignored them. Now I'm giving the simple answer that you don't want to hear.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 19:02     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That's correct! Reproducing copywriten material without permission is illegal.

I'm sure companies like Testing Mom don't have THE test, because that'd be illegal, and the IQ test maker would see to that.

So if test prep companies don't have THE test, and you are prepping with general materials, what's the problem?


Because IQ tests are not the sort of tests that one preps for. That's the problem.


You keep going into circular logic:

You don't prep for the iq test because it's unethical!
You don't steal the test because that's illegal!
Using copyrighted materials without permission is illegal.
You don't use un copyrighted materials, because that's not what you're supposed to do!
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 18:58     Subject: should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:You can't get an actual copy of the test unless you have the appropriate license. The publishing companies go to great lengths to keep the tests secure so they are valid.

There are some disreputable companies who try their hardest to duplicate the test in order to prep kids and allegedly boost their performance. There is no actual evidence this works. Also, the second your child starts saying things like "Oh, yeah, these puzzles again!" and "I practiced questions like this with my tutor Miss Judy." the psychologist will know your child was prepped. They will either stop testing, or put language in the report indicating that the scores may be invalid or artificially inflated.

As for playing and doing puzzles with your child, knock yourself out. These activities are unlikely to affect your child's performance, though.


If there is no evidence that that works, why would it then invalidate the test?
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 18:57     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
Anonymous wrote:That's correct! Reproducing copywriten material without permission is illegal.

I'm sure companies like Testing Mom don't have THE test, because that'd be illegal, and the IQ test maker would see to that.

So if test prep companies don't have THE test, and you are prepping with general materials, what's the problem?


Because IQ tests are not the sort of tests that one preps for. That's the problem.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2018 18:54     Subject: Re:should you prep for iq tests?
That's correct! Reproducing copywriten material without permission is illegal.

I'm sure companies like Testing Mom don't have THE test, because that'd be illegal, and the IQ test maker would see to that.

So if test prep companies don't have THE test, and you are prepping with general materials, what's the problem?