Anonymous wrote:Hey, another Skidmore/Brandeis mom here! (DD is a junior at Skidmore and DS will enter Brandeis in the fall.) Skidmore is very hot right now--25% acceptance rate. Kids who would have been shoo-ins a few years ago are being turned away. It has been a GREAT fit for my artsy DD, but she's friendly with plenty of kids who aren't necessarily artsy. As far as Brandeis goes, the student body is less than half Jewish and is, as the previous poster said, fantastic for those in the sciences. Skidmore is actively beefing up its science offerings as well.

Friend who does grants administration for NIH highly recommended Brandeis as a great undergrad school for a PhD-aspiring STEM kid (which is what I was asking her about).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a website that has these so called tiers? I want to rule the top tier out and find some good 2nd tier ones.

I think US News has a decent ranking, and anything in the top 25 or so LACs is top tier. 2nd tier would be those in the 26-50 range, like Skidmore. Reed is one exception top tier school which does not participate in rankings.

I don't think I would cut the 2nd tier off at 50. Maybe around 100? I don't think there's a huge difference between schools ranked in the 40s and the 60-70s (looking over USNews--there are over 230 National LAC listed--and that doesn't even get unlisted regional privates). Many states will have multiple solid LACs and then a handful of 3rd tier. I would instead look at the profile of students they accept (GPA/SATs)--and how they rank on admissions to PhD programs (even if your kid doesn't want a PhD, it just gives some measure of academic rigor). I like this slightly wider lens because it will capture the variability of things a student might be interested in (e.g. international studies, music, admission to top PhD programs, marine biology) that a given school might have as a strength--and geographical diversity. I would also look at endowment--you don't want a school that is struggling--and some 3rd tier LACs are. Given their often small size, endowments don't need to be enormous, but healthy. I wouldn't bother looking at acceptance rates for 2nd tier--a school can have a high acceptance rate because LAC applicants have often chosen the college carefully to match their stats and their interest--the first tier is where you are more likely to get students throwing their hat in the ring for colleges they don't quite match stats-wise.

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Anonymous wrote:My sense is that it is neither. It's a third tier LAC comparable to Gettysburg, Dickinson, etc.

Your "sense"? Facts would be better.

Gettysburg: "the majority of admitted students had high school grades of "A-" or better, combined SAT scores of 1200 or higher, and ACT composite scores of 26 or better. Your chances are best if you have SAT scores of 1300 or better and a solid "A" average"

https://www.thoughtco.com/gettysburg-college-gpa-sat-act-data-786485


Skidmore: "most successful applicants had high school averages of "B+" or better, combined SAT scores of about 1200 or higher (RW+M), and ACT composite scores of 26 or better"

https://www.thoughtco.com/skidmore-college-gpa-sat-and-act-data-786629

Virtually identical.

Eh, neither has a particularly good reputation.

Neither has a good reputation where? What do you do for a living? That's a real question, not snark, as I'm curious about the industry/hiring manager aspect. I'm in Aerospace/Defense and never really see LACs on resumes because I'm a VP of Eng, hiring mostly sr engineering mgrs at this point, not much entry level anything.

Exactly. People on DCUM and IRL frequently ask about reputation, but rarely with enough specificity to make the answer valuable. What's relevant is the reputation of the school among employers and grad/professional schools in the student's area of academic and/or career interest. Who cares what the person who sees your car decal at Whole Foods thinks about where your kid goes to school.

Hahha, love your response. I"m the PP who asked the question. Still waiting on the answer from that poster, though.

Top tier management consultancy. We only recruit off highly selective colleges with an emphasis on those that have delivered graduates in the past who have been successful at the firm. We need candidates that not only have the intellectual capacity for the work but also the soft skills (e.g., communications) and intangibles such as poise and polish. We've had good success with analysts from top LACs such as Williams, Amherst and Bowdoin as well as research universities. Whether it's fair or not is up for debate but we find that the top schools do a credible job not only selecting their students but preparing them for the workplace. So when we recruit off those campuses we're fishing from a stocked pond and have a higher likelihood of recruiting a high-performer. That's not to say that there aren't potential high-performers at Skidmore or the like, but the probability is just going to be significantly lower and it isn't worth our time. Hope that answers your question.

You sound either terribly insecure, very junior, or both. As if your precious "top tier management consultancy" is completely full of intellectuals. Poise and polish. Good grief.

Another New Yorker. Skidmore is a great school. Upstate NY is full of beautiful, small LACs that DCUM would not be interested in, but they'd be excellent places to go to college. Hobart & WS is also very good, but I agree with the previous poster, maybe a little more preppy/lax bro.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sense is that it is neither. It's a third tier LAC comparable to Gettysburg, Dickinson, etc.

Your "sense"? Facts would be better.

Gettysburg: "the majority of admitted students had high school grades of "A-" or better, combined SAT scores of 1200 or higher, and ACT composite scores of 26 or better. Your chances are best if you have SAT scores of 1300 or better and a solid "A" average"

https://www.thoughtco.com/gettysburg-college-gpa-sat-act-data-786485


Skidmore: "most successful applicants had high school averages of "B+" or better, combined SAT scores of about 1200 or higher (RW+M), and ACT composite scores of 26 or better"

https://www.thoughtco.com/skidmore-college-gpa-sat-and-act-data-786629

Virtually identical.

Eh, neither has a particularly good reputation.

Neither has a good reputation where? What do you do for a living? That's a real question, not snark, as I'm curious about the industry/hiring manager aspect. I'm in Aerospace/Defense and never really see LACs on resumes because I'm a VP of Eng, hiring mostly sr engineering mgrs at this point, not much entry level anything.

Exactly. People on DCUM and IRL frequently ask about reputation, but rarely with enough specificity to make the answer valuable. What's relevant is the reputation of the school among employers and grad/professional schools in the student's area of academic and/or career interest. Who cares what the person who sees your car decal at Whole Foods thinks about where your kid goes to school.

Hahha, love your response. I"m the PP who asked the question. Still waiting on the answer from that poster, though.

Top tier management consultancy. We only recruit off highly selective colleges with an emphasis on those that have delivered graduates in the past who have been successful at the firm. We need candidates that not only have the intellectual capacity for the work but also the soft skills (e.g., communications) and intangibles such as poise and polish. We've had good success with analysts from top LACs such as Williams, Amherst and Bowdoin as well as research universities. Whether it's fair or not is up for debate but we find that the top schools do a credible job not only selecting their students but preparing them for the workplace. So when we recruit off those campuses we're fishing from a stocked pond and have a higher likelihood of recruiting a high-performer. That's not to say that there aren't potential high-performers at Skidmore or the like, but the probability is just going to be significantly lower and it isn't worth our time. Hope that answers your question.

Hey, another Skidmore/Brandeis mom here! (DD is a junior at Skidmore and DS will enter Brandeis in the fall.) Skidmore is very hot right now--25% acceptance rate. Kids who would have been shoo-ins a few years ago are being turned away. It has been a GREAT fit for my artsy DD, but she's friendly with plenty of kids who aren't necessarily artsy. As far as Brandeis goes, the student body is less than half Jewish and is, as the previous poster said, fantastic for those in the sciences. Skidmore is actively beefing up its science offerings as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP NY pp back to answer what I know of Hobart and William Smith. It’s in the finger lakes in a beautiful town. You will love visiting! It has a very strong Greek system. I am not sure where it is on ranking but my perception and recollection is that there are a lot of wealthy full pay kids there. It more like filled with smart kids with decent grades but not top top grade SAT kids. It is definitely a preppy school.

The Greek system is just frats. No sororities for some reason, I think going back to the time they were separate schools. My DD visited and liked it. She was accepted and also got an unsolicited merit aid offer so not sure there are that many full pay kids.

What’s with the Gettysburg bashing? OP didn’t ask about Gettysburg. I don’t understand the need to bash a random college on this board.

I'm 04/17/2018 08:30, and it wasn't really my intent to bash Gettysburg--just that I had never heard of it. It might be a perfectly good or great school, but I get the sense that it is more of an unknown name. But you should also keep in mind that this is DCUM. You can come on here asking people what they think of Vanderbilt and Duke, and they'll tell you they're crap schools compared to Harvard and Yale. SMH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sense is that it is neither. It's a third tier LAC comparable to Gettysburg, Dickinson, etc.

Your "sense"? Facts would be better.

Gettysburg: "the majority of admitted students had high school grades of "A-" or better, combined SAT scores of 1200 or higher, and ACT composite scores of 26 or better. Your chances are best if you have SAT scores of 1300 or better and a solid "A" average"

https://www.thoughtco.com/gettysburg-college-gpa-sat-act-data-786485


Skidmore: "most successful applicants had high school averages of "B+" or better, combined SAT scores of about 1200 or higher (RW+M), and ACT composite scores of 26 or better"

https://www.thoughtco.com/skidmore-college-gpa-sat-and-act-data-786629

Virtually identical.

Eh, neither has a particularly good reputation.

Neither has a good reputation where? What do you do for a living? That's a real question, not snark, as I'm curious about the industry/hiring manager aspect. I'm in Aerospace/Defense and never really see LACs on resumes because I'm a VP of Eng, hiring mostly sr engineering mgrs at this point, not much entry level anything.

Exactly. People on DCUM and IRL frequently ask about reputation, but rarely with enough specificity to make the answer valuable. What's relevant is the reputation of the school among employers and grad/professional schools in the student's area of academic and/or career interest. Who cares what the person who sees your car decal at Whole Foods thinks about where your kid goes to school.

Hahha, love your response. I"m the PP who asked the question. Still waiting on the answer from that poster, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a website that has these so called tiers? I want to rule the top tier out and find some good 2nd tier ones.

I think US News has a decent ranking, and anything in the top 25 or so LACs is top tier. 2nd tier would be those in the 26-50 range, like Skidmore. Reed is one exception top tier school which does not participate in rankings.

Skidmore is ranked #41 and Gettysburg #46. Not all that different. Hobart us ranked #65. Since I have a college junior, and we are looking at schools, fit is so important. It is all well and good to try and aspire to the highest ranked college. If your kids is going to be unhappy and its not a good match, then they will not make the most of wherever they go.

Gettysburg is a great school for those considering international affairs or history.The connection with the Eisenhower Center brings top rated speakers and access to interesting classes and opportunities for study.

Another area is how well colleges integrate freshman into college life. Many schools make a big effort to to do this, freshman seminars dorms etc. some do not.

Look at what is offered with your major as far as internships, foreign travel etc. If you are going to be a liberal arts major but are at a school that has a big engineering program (like Lafayette) it will make a difference.

Anonymous wrote:Is there a website that has these so called tiers? I want to rule the top tier out and find some good 2nd tier ones.

I think US News has a decent ranking, and anything in the top 25 or so LACs is top tier. 2nd tier would be those in the 26-50 range, like Skidmore. Reed is one exception top tier school which does not participate in rankings.

Anonymous wrote:Skidmore College has a solid reputation as a LAC. It's not one of the top few, but it's solid. Like others have said it's known for an artsy vibe (and very strong arts students who don't want to go the art school route attend). Personally, I love the large swath of 2nd tier liberal arts colleges because they aren't as oppressively competitive and there's not a huge amount of difference between them in quality. That means students can readily choose between them based on factors that will more genuinely affect their quality of life--location, vibe, particular faculty in majors of interest, scholarship/grant money given, special programs etc. Then it is up to the student to make an impression/connection with professors to get good recommendations for graduate school and to cultivate experiences that support moving towards their goals.

Perfect post. Thank you. It's the type of environment I wanted for my DCs.

Is there a website that has these so called tiers? I want to rule the top tier out and find some good 2nd tier ones.

Skidmore College has a solid reputation as a LAC. It's not one of the top few, but it's solid. Like others have said it's known for an artsy vibe (and very strong arts students who don't want to go the art school route attend). Personally, I love the large swath of 2nd tier liberal arts colleges because they aren't as oppressively competitive and there's not a huge amount of difference between them in quality. That means students can readily choose between them based on factors that will more genuinely affect their quality of life--location, vibe, particular faculty in majors of interest, scholarship/grant money given, special programs etc. Then it is up to the student to make an impression/connection with professors to get good recommendations for graduate school and to cultivate experiences that support moving towards their goals.

Anonymous wrote:OP NY pp back to answer what I know of Hobart and William Smith. It’s in the finger lakes in a beautiful town. You will love visiting! It has a very strong Greek system. I am not sure where it is on ranking but my perception and recollection is that there are a lot of wealthy full pay kids there. It more like filled with smart kids with decent grades but not top top grade SAT kids. It is definitely a preppy school.

The Greek system is just frats. No sororities for some reason, I think going back to the time they were separate schools. My DD visited and liked it. She was accepted and also got an unsolicited merit aid offer so not sure there are that many full pay kids.

What’s with the Gettysburg bashing? OP didn’t ask about Gettysburg. I don’t understand the need to bash a random college on this board.

OP NY pp back to answer what I know of Hobart and William Smith. It’s in the finger lakes in a beautiful town. You will love visiting! It has a very strong Greek system. I am not sure where it is on ranking but my perception and recollection is that there are a lot of wealthy full pay kids there. It more like filled with smart kids with decent grades but not top top grade SAT kids. It is definitely a preppy school.