Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Graduated with 5k in debt from a Virginia public school in 1999 with an undergrad only. Paid that off in 2 months. Bought my first house in Arlington in 2001 with 3% down. The best decision of my life was going to a state school, obtaining the minimum for a BS, and hopping into the labor market ASAP and quickly buying real estate.

You can buy a house with 3% down?? Or is this something that used to exist but doesn't anymore? I know not everyone puts down 20 or 25% these days -- but 3??

Oh child...FHA.

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW -- I agree with you. Lawyer here who can't fathom why my (not rich; not married to money; not having trust fund) friends are slogging away at non profits for under 6 figures when they could earn 2-3x that in private practice. And in their cases, it's BS non profits that generally give you the feelings of "doing good" but how much are you really accomplishing?? Bit different for MDs -- we NEED people to want to do primary care bc I for one don't want to be seeing NPs and PAs for everything. If these folks are willing to take one for the team financially to provide care we ALL need -- I wouldn't lecture them on that. But like you -- I personally considered by debt/standard of living etc. when deciding how to move forward educationally and professionally. I'm the one who graduated with 75k in debt and paid it off in 13 years -- super slow bc market returns >> 2.8% interest rates and I wanted the net worth/investments built up fast.

You make an entirely valid point. The compensation paid to PCPs is out of whack compared to other specialties but unfortunately that is partly the problem with our reimbursement system. It has resulted in increasing involvement by NPs and PAs with occasionally questionable quality. But that is deflecting from the focus of this thread.

I respect the decision of anyone who chooses to limit earnings potential to do something s/he feels passionate about ....... but then limitations in compensation is part of that equation.

My son was encouraged to pursue a sub-specialty which would have further increased his compensation but he was adamant that he did not want to pursue that field because, as he put it, he would rather quit medicine than work in that area. But there are physicians who pursue that sub-specialty and perform a much needed service for patients.

Anonymous wrote:Graduated with 5k in debt from a Virginia public school in 1999 with an undergrad only. Paid that off in 2 months. Bought my first house in Arlington in 2001 with 3% down. The best decision of my life was going to a state school, obtaining the minimum for a BS, and hopping into the labor market ASAP and quickly buying real estate.

You can buy a house with 3% down?? Or is this something that used to exist but doesn't anymore? I know not everyone puts down 20 or 25% these days -- but 3??

Graduated with 5k in debt from a Virginia public school in 1999 with an undergrad only. Paid that off in 2 months. Bought my first house in Arlington in 2001 with 3% down. The best decision of my life was going to a state school, obtaining the minimum for a BS, and hopping into the labor market ASAP and quickly buying real estate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:250k in loans after medical school. I am 10 ys out and have 180k to go. Depressing.

Wow! My son had almost $200K in student loans when he finished his residency about 18 months ago. He has paid off all but $20K which he expect to pay off by June. He is single and lives well but keeps his spending down because he wanted to pay it off within two years of completing residency.

I don't know how this is possible. You would have to have a ridiculously high net pay in order to pay $180K in 18 months.

He earns approximately $450K gross annually ......

Again, I am a PCP. Your son had an extra $325k in his first year of work to put toward his loans compared to me. Not surprising he doesn’t have much left.
To the MS3 going into peds, I love my job and have never regretted my decision not to subspecialize. But if you are interested in higher paying pediatric subspecialties, then certainly consider the financial benefits.

NP. Gotta ask -- are you unreasonably low paid for a PCP or is this just what salaries are these days? Does geography have something to do with it -- like you can make more in states that have a PCP shortage vs. states along the 95 corridor where there are tons of drs. so practices don't need to pay $$$ to attract more?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:250k in loans after medical school. I am 10 ys out and have 180k to go. Depressing.

Wow! My son had almost $200K in student loans when he finished his residency about 18 months ago. He has paid off all but $20K which he expect to pay off by June. He is single and lives well but keeps his spending down because he wanted to pay it off within two years of completing residency.

I don't know how this is possible. You would have to have a ridiculously high net pay in order to pay $180K in 18 months.

He earns approximately $450K gross annually ......

Right. So he's a specialist. Bit different for those guys bc they know when they finish residency they'll make 300k+ or 400k+. Not sure why you're feeling so cocky about this comparing him to a PCP who likely makes less than 1/2 what he makes. Are you also shocked when Wharton MBAs who go into the hedge fund world pay off loans in 1 year while their non profit counterparts who don't have loan forgiveness can easily take 20 years?

Don't mean to come across as cocky but when one has substantial loans after any course of study - whether med school, business school or any other field - one does need to consider earning potential to meet loan obligations and not have to struggle for years thereafter.

It is a point that I have made to all my children and anyone who asks for advice. Pursuing one's passion is all very well but in the end one has to consider earnings potential as well if one is taking on a lot of debt.

FWIW -- I agree with you. Lawyer here who can't fathom why my (not rich; not married to money; not having trust fund) friends are slogging away at non profits for under 6 figures when they could earn 2-3x that in private practice. And in their cases, it's BS non profits that generally give you the feelings of "doing good" but how much are you really accomplishing?? Bit different for MDs -- we NEED people to want to do primary care bc I for one don't want to be seeing NPs and PAs for everything. If these folks are willing to take one for the team financially to provide care we ALL need -- I wouldn't lecture them on that. But like you -- I personally considered by debt/standard of living etc. when deciding how to move forward educationally and professionally. I'm the one who graduated with 75k in debt and paid it off in 13 years -- super slow bc market returns >> 2.8% interest rates and I wanted the net worth/investments built up fast.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:250k in loans after medical school. I am 10 ys out and have 180k to go. Depressing.

Wow! My son had almost $200K in student loans when he finished his residency about 18 months ago. He has paid off all but $20K which he expect to pay off by June. He is single and lives well but keeps his spending down because he wanted to pay it off within two years of completing residency.

I don't know how this is possible. You would have to have a ridiculously high net pay in order to pay $180K in 18 months.

He earns approximately $450K gross annually ......

Again, I am a PCP. Your son had an extra $325k in his first year of work to put toward his loans compared to me. Not surprising he doesn’t have much left.
To the MS3 going into peds, I love my job and have never regretted my decision not to subspecialize. But if you are interested in higher paying pediatric subspecialties, then certainly consider the financial benefits.

Anonymous wrote:Live with your parents for 2-3 years. Save for retirement (get the full employer's match), and pay off the loan. 2 of my cousins did that. Another stayed in his parents basement for 2 years even though he had no student loans (parents paid for it) and moved out with enough money to pay the down payment for his condo.

Depends on where one's parents live. Commuting distance to DC or NYC or some other major city, sure. But lots of people have parents living in economically depressed areas or even if not economically depressed, areas that are just meh for career opportunities/growth; for many (not all) professions, the career trajectory is built day one, so it is worth it to have some random 35k job in your hometown so you can live at home and pay off debt fast? Maybe not if once you're done with debt payment in 2-3 yrs, high end employers -- like NYC investment banking/consulting -- won't even look at you bc you were working at Joe Schmoe mortgage company in suburban south Jersey. And no for those kinds of employers, they don't care that you did it to pay off debt; frankly you won't even get a chance to explain that bc your resume won't even earn you the interview. Granted I think this is only true for things like IB, higher end consulting, biglaw etc. as they are very choosy re reputation. If your kid's goal is to be a supply chain manager, sure I think it's fine to live with mom and dad in south jersey as long as he/she has some corporate job and then make moves towards getting whatever job they want in whatever location once financial standing improves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:250k in loans after medical school. I am 10 ys out and have 180k to go. Depressing.

Wow! My son had almost $200K in student loans when he finished his residency about 18 months ago. He has paid off all but $20K which he expect to pay off by June. He is single and lives well but keeps his spending down because he wanted to pay it off within two years of completing residency.

I don't know how this is possible. You would have to have a ridiculously high net pay in order to pay $180K in 18 months.

He earns approximately $450K gross annually ......

Right. So he's a specialist. Bit different for those guys bc they know when they finish residency they'll make 300k+ or 400k+. Not sure why you're feeling so cocky about this comparing him to a PCP who likely makes less than 1/2 what he makes. Are you also shocked when Wharton MBAs who go into the hedge fund world pay off loans in 1 year while their non profit counterparts who don't have loan forgiveness can easily take 20 years?

Don't mean to come across as cocky but when one has substantial loans after any course of study - whether med school, business school or any other field - one does need to consider earning potential to meet loan obligations and not have to struggle for years thereafter.

It is a point that I have made to all my children and anyone who asks for advice. Pursuing one's passion is all very well but in the end one has to consider earnings potential as well if one is taking on a lot of debt.

Live with your parents for 2-3 years. Save for retirement (get the full employer's match), and pay off the loan. 2 of my cousins did that. Another stayed in his parents basement for 2 years even though he had no student loans (parents paid for it) and moved out with enough money to pay the down payment for his condo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:250k in loans after medical school. I am 10 ys out and have 180k to go. Depressing.

Holy shit. Do you mean you're 10 yrs post med school or 10 yrs post residency? What specialty/area of practice? Do most drs. defer loan payments for the 4+ years of residency?

10ys post med school. Deferred loans for 3 ys of residency (most people have to unless married with another income or can live with parents/family for free), so I have been paying toward them for 7 ys. I am primary care physician so at low end of pay scale for MD. Luckily most of what is left is very low interest 2.25%. Because of that, I have been maxing 401k rather than throwing that money to the loans since I am way behind in retirement savings after all the years of school and residency.

Ugh this is so depressing to me. I'm an MS3 and I am going into peds. Its so nervewracking to think about the future.

Primary care does not pay well. One need not select a specialty one would hate but there are specialties involving kids that pay fairly well.

Was going to say the same. Do you necessarily HAVE TO be a pediatrician? And even if you must do peds, why not do a subspecialty -- pretty sure the neonatal and the pediatric cardiologists are making a LOT more. Sure they are in training for longer post residency but the given the lifetime earnings, the numbers more than work out in their favor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:250k in loans after medical school. I am 10 ys out and have 180k to go. Depressing.

Wow! My son had almost $200K in student loans when he finished his residency about 18 months ago. He has paid off all but $20K which he expect to pay off by June. He is single and lives well but keeps his spending down because he wanted to pay it off within two years of completing residency.

I don't know how this is possible. You would have to have a ridiculously high net pay in order to pay $180K in 18 months.

He earns approximately $450K gross annually ......

Right. So he's a specialist. Bit different for those guys bc they know when they finish residency they'll make 300k+ or 400k+. Not sure why you're feeling so cocky about this comparing him to a PCP who likely makes less than 1/2 what he makes. Are you also shocked when Wharton MBAs who go into the hedge fund world pay off loans in 1 year while their non profit counterparts who don't have loan forgiveness can easily take 20 years?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:250k in loans after medical school. I am 10 ys out and have 180k to go. Depressing.

Holy shit. Do you mean you're 10 yrs post med school or 10 yrs post residency? What specialty/area of practice? Do most drs. defer loan payments for the 4+ years of residency?

10ys post med school. Deferred loans for 3 ys of residency (most people have to unless married with another income or can live with parents/family for free), so I have been paying toward them for 7 ys. I am primary care physician so at low end of pay scale for MD. Luckily most of what is left is very low interest 2.25%. Because of that, I have been maxing 401k rather than throwing that money to the loans since I am way behind in retirement savings after all the years of school and residency.

Ugh this is so depressing to me. I'm an MS3 and I am going into peds. Its so nervewracking to think about the future.

Primary care does not pay well. One need not select a specialty one would hate but there are specialties involving kids that pay fairly well.

I had about $90K after law school. I paid them off in 1.5 years at biglaw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:250k in loans after medical school. I am 10 ys out and have 180k to go. Depressing.

Holy shit. Do you mean you're 10 yrs post med school or 10 yrs post residency? What specialty/area of practice? Do most drs. defer loan payments for the 4+ years of residency?

10ys post med school. Deferred loans for 3 ys of residency (most people have to unless married with another income or can live with parents/family for free), so I have been paying toward them for 7 ys. I am primary care physician so at low end of pay scale for MD. Luckily most of what is left is very low interest 2.25%. Because of that, I have been maxing 401k rather than throwing that money to the loans since I am way behind in retirement savings after all the years of school and residency.

Ugh this is so depressing to me. I'm an MS3 and I am going into peds. Its so nervewracking to think about the future.