Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 14:06     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:From the women that I know, those who married men from a class or so below them are unhappy.

They’re used to a certain lifestyle and when the husband can’t match it, they’re frustrated and unhappy.

The class doesn’t matter as much of the husband is a high earner. But if not, it’s very very hard.

Agree? Disagree?


It's not about money, it's about views, opinions, preferences, habits, customs etc. Those require money to a certain extent but not overwhelmingly.

Let's put it this way. Marry a guy who makes less money? Sure, why not. Marry a guy who thinks children do not need language or piano lessons? Nope. Marry a guy who wears Target clothing? Sure, why not. Marry a guy who never cracks a book open, never goes to the theater or opera, never wants to do anything cultural? Nope.

Marriage is easier when you have compatible views on how money ought to be spent, how children ought to be raised, what is important to check off etc. These views differ very much across classes, and navigating them is hard work. Marriage is hard to begin with, no point making it harder than it needs to be.

I married someone from a different continent, different religion, makes less money than me, but has compatible views on child-rearing and values. We have a good marriage.


This pretty much sums it up. You need to marry someone with similar values and how they were brought up. I could not have married someone without a graduate degree.....sounds shallow....maybe....but we're on the same intellectual level and agree on how we should raise our kids. My DH makes more money than I do, but I have less debt and more investments. It all balances out.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 13:01     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think it's easier for men to "marry down" than it is for women. That's why you see old rich guys with young, often uneducated, women. The opposite is less common. Even highly-successful, rich, women prefer to marry even richer men, if possible.

There are a million threads on DCUM started by women who are disappointed by their lower-SES husbands. They talk of "losing respect" for their husband's career trajectory or earnings, or apparent lack of refinement. Sometimes his "trashy" inlaws are a problem too. It seems like women are just wired to want a provider, even if they don't necessarily need one.


This is true.

Men don’t care about a woman’s origins or social status. Once married a nobody woman acquired the social status of her husband. And this is the problem. An UMC woman who marries into a LMC family will feel the loss in social status. Unless her LMc born husband is outstandingly rich and successful. Even then, redneck in laws and distant cousins can be a problem.


That's not true. Men may not care about how much money a woman makes, but they very much care about her level of education because no one wants a dimwit raising their children. And if they don't care about her family, they learn to regret it later.

Go look at the NYT engagement section and compare backgrounds and education levels of bride/groom.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:59     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:From the women that I know, those who married men from a class or so below them are unhappy.

They’re used to a certain lifestyle and when the husband can’t match it, they’re frustrated and unhappy.

The class doesn’t matter as much of the husband is a high earner. But if not, it’s very very hard.

Agree? Disagree?


It's not about money, it's about views, opinions, preferences, habits, customs etc. Those require money to a certain extent but not overwhelmingly.

Let's put it this way. Marry a guy who makes less money? Sure, why not. Marry a guy who thinks children do not need language or piano lessons? Nope. Marry a guy who wears Target clothing? Sure, why not. Marry a guy who never cracks a book open, never goes to the theater or opera, never wants to do anything cultural? Nope.

Marriage is easier when you have compatible views on how money ought to be spent, how children ought to be raised, what is important to check off etc. These views differ very much across classes, and navigating them is hard work. Marriage is hard to begin with, no point making it harder than it needs to be.

I married someone from a different continent, different religion, makes less money than me, but has compatible views on child-rearing and values. We have a good marriage.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:58     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
As a first marriage generally yes. But sometimes a woman who has had the high-powered, high-earning, well-connected, very ambitious, highly-successful first husband, appreciates the love of a more down-to-earth, devoted, but less overtly successful or ambitious man the second time around.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:45     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:I think it's easier for men to "marry down" than it is for women. That's why you see old rich guys with young, often uneducated, women. The opposite is less common. Even highly-successful, rich, women prefer to marry even richer men, if possible.

There are a million threads on DCUM started by women who are disappointed by their lower-SES husbands. They talk of "losing respect" for their husband's career trajectory or earnings, or apparent lack of refinement. Sometimes his "trashy" inlaws are a problem too. It seems like women are just wired to want a provider, even if they don't necessarily need one.


This is true.

Men don’t care about a woman’s origins or social status. Once married a nobody woman acquired the social status of her husband. And this is the problem. An UMC woman who marries into a LMC family will feel the loss in social status. Unless her LMc born husband is outstandingly rich and successful. Even then, redneck in laws and distant cousins can be a problem.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:40     Subject: Re:Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Class difference can still matter regardless of income though it’s not true for everyone. Different tastes in food, housing, entertainment, vacations, education expectations for the children, experiences to give children. It would be miserable to disagree on so much. People can be raised with similar family incomes but still have different “class” values and tastes. But higher class tastes are certainly more expensive.

Disney vs Europe
Rooms to Go vs Antiques
Chain restaurant vs fresh food
Private school vs public




I think those fall less into differences based on upper class versus lower class, and more into differences based on douchebag versus not douchebag.

Signed, a very wealthy person (family money plus am a high earner married to a high earner) who loves disney, olive garden, public schools and state universities.


Well I love Disney (but not if it's my only trip for the year) but let's not go too far. Olive Garden? Hard pass. And some state universities are ok. UVA? Fine. UMD? Hard pass. Same with public schools. Bethesda? Fine. DC? No way.


Fearing the Turtle is beneath you? What a snot. Move back to Martha’s Vinyard.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:31     Subject: Re:Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Class difference can still matter regardless of income though it’s not true for everyone. Different tastes in food, housing, entertainment, vacations, education expectations for the children, experiences to give children. It would be miserable to disagree on so much. People can be raised with similar family incomes but still have different “class” values and tastes. But higher class tastes are certainly more expensive.

Disney vs Europe
Rooms to Go vs Antiques
Chain restaurant vs fresh food
Private school vs public




I think those fall less into differences based on upper class versus lower class, and more into differences based on douchebag versus not douchebag.

Signed, a very wealthy person (family money plus am a high earner married to a high earner) who loves disney, olive garden, public schools and state universities.


Well I love Disney (but not if it's my only trip for the year) but let's not go too far. Olive Garden? Hard pass. And some state universities are ok. UVA? Fine. UMD? Hard pass. Same with public schools. Bethesda? Fine. DC? No way.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:29     Subject: Re:Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Class difference can still matter regardless of income though it’s not true for everyone. Different tastes in food, housing, entertainment, vacations, education expectations for the children, experiences to give children. It would be miserable to disagree on so much. People can be raised with similar family incomes but still have different “class” values and tastes. But higher class tastes are certainly more expensive.

Disney vs Europe
Rooms to Go vs Antiques
Chain restaurant vs fresh food
Private school vs public


Don't be ridiculous. I go to Paris Disneyland and Tokyo Disneyland
I also listen to NPR and classical music.
I also like burgers and fries.

Stop it with the categorizing.


+ 1

Ridiculous
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:28     Subject: Re:Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Why can't the woman make her own money and produce the lifestyle she aspires to herself?

This question is NEVER answered on here.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:24     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
All women marry down.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:24     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:I think it's easier for men to "marry down" than it is for women. That's why you see old rich guys with young, often uneducated, women. The opposite is less common. Even highly-successful, rich, women prefer to marry even richer men, if possible.

There are a million threads on DCUM started by women who are disappointed by their lower-SES husbands. They talk of "losing respect" for their husband's career trajectory or earnings, or apparent lack of refinement. Sometimes his "trashy" inlaws are a problem too. It seems like women are just wired to want a provider, even if they don't necessarily need one.


What if you had one and not the other? Would it be "worth it" to you? What if those same trashy ILs caused life long, irreversible trauma for your spouse, which affects your spouse (and consequently you and your family) every single day? "Worth it" then? You see OP, it just is not that simple.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:22     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Personally I think that education levels/ aspirations are more important than money or SES. And even then, for some “uneven” couples it works just fine.... it would not work for me though...


Pretty sure men don’t give a flying f’ about a woman’s education level beyond a certain minimum. Having been married, I can attest that diplomas on the wall were irrelevant. Even knowledge of current events was less relevant than, say, enjoying window shopping together or showering together. Not minding each other’s bullshit, which in the case of a DCUM woman seems to be feeling life should really have coughed up Cary Grant to her.


+1

Well said.

The grass is greener UNTIL you get to the other side, OP.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:17     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
I think it's easier for men to "marry down" than it is for women. That's why you see old rich guys with young, often uneducated, women. The opposite is less common. Even highly-successful, rich, women prefer to marry even richer men, if possible.

There are a million threads on DCUM started by women who are disappointed by their lower-SES husbands. They talk of "losing respect" for their husband's career trajectory or earnings, or apparent lack of refinement. Sometimes his "trashy" inlaws are a problem too. It seems like women are just wired to want a provider, even if they don't necessarily need one.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:15     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:Personally I think that education levels/ aspirations are more important than money or SES. And even then, for some “uneven” couples it works just fine.... it would not work for me though...


Yes. You can have a bunch of money but disagree on what to spend it on. A few differences, ok. But all the big issues and the little ones? Miserable.

To PP who said “show me”. That works for some couples, definitely. Some people aren’t interested and are very happy with their tastes. One is not better than the other but if they’re always in disagreement, that’s what’s hard.
Anonymous
Post 04/09/2018 12:12     Subject: Do women have a hard time when they marry down?
Anonymous wrote:Personally I think that education levels/ aspirations are more important than money or SES. And even then, for some “uneven” couples it works just fine.... it would not work for me though...


Pretty sure men don’t give a flying f’ about a woman’s education level beyond a certain minimum. Having been married, I can attest that diplomas on the wall were irrelevant. Even knowledge of current events was less relevant than, say, enjoying window shopping together or showering together. Not minding each other’s bullshit, which in the case of a DCUM woman seems to be feeling life should really have coughed up Cary Grant to her.