Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 15:48     Subject: Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:I would tell her that she is stuck doing the work herself at this point, and when it is over she can reevaluate the friendship.

Group projects are always a minefield. She is stuck right now.

Your statement about it being academically dishonest: kinda secondary. She should just put her friend's name and handle this later with the friend. She should not shoot her own foot. And she should only go down the path of involving the teacher if she wants to own the resulting drama.



This. She learned a good lesson here, about group projects and about her friend. Do the work. And handle her friend afterward. I woudl not under any circumstances partner with friend again, and I'd be very frank with friend why that was (if I was your DD).
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 15:12     Subject: Re:Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:"My kid is a procrastinator - so I get it. But in PP's case, it should have been her son who adjusted his workstyle to fit the project. Waiting until the last minute is fine if he is doing his own work, but he cannot hold the group hostage just because he rises to the occasion the night before. PP's son and his partner should have done a better job of setting internal deadlines!! However, it is not a good feeling to wait patiently and hope that your partner comes through at the wire."

Why should it have been her son who adjusted his workstyle? Your description of setting internal deadlines could be broadened to describe tasks each should do as well. From that perspective, getting all the work done early is no better than procrastinating. But there is more to the story. It seems to me that even when BFF declared the project "done" that Mr "last minute" could have treated BFF's work as a strong first draft. Mr "last minute" could have filled in any gaps, expanded weak sections, added another point of view and/or polished the writing. The way it worked out, it sounds more like Mr "last minute" is really Mr "don't doing anything if I don't have to".

You are talking nuances a kid may not know how to navigate. You expect a kid to know how to tactfully tell their co-worker" , hey nice try but let's do thus and so, so that we are all represented in the final draft? Yea, right. Let me guess. Your kid is the one doing everything ahead of time, with you at the helm guiding the ship and then wanting to claim the partner did not do s*** when in reality, was never given a chance.
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 14:08     Subject: Re:Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:"My kid is a procrastinator - so I get it. But in PP's case, it should have been her son who adjusted his workstyle to fit the project. Waiting until the last minute is fine if he is doing his own work, but he cannot hold the group hostage just because he rises to the occasion the night before. PP's son and his partner should have done a better job of setting internal deadlines!! However, it is not a good feeling to wait patiently and hope that your partner comes through at the wire."

Why should it have been her son who adjusted his workstyle? Your description of setting internal deadlines could be broadened to describe tasks each should do as well. From that perspective, getting all the work done early is no better than procrastinating. But there is more to the story. It seems to me that even when BFF declared the project "done" that Mr "last minute" could have treated BFF's work as a strong first draft. Mr "last minute" could have filled in any gaps, expanded weak sections, added another point of view and/or polished the writing. The way it worked out, it sounds more like Mr "last minute" is really Mr "don't doing anything if I don't have to".


There are a couple of us with BFF examples and I'm not the PP you are quoting, but in my kid's case BFF did the work early and then didn't want any changes to it. He did it the way he wanted it done, and his way was best. And the kid IS really good, so he isn't necessarily wrong. So, when my kid said to BFF "let's do the poster board together this weekend" BFF said "Oh, no worries. I did it already and its finished." And my kid felt awful that his ideas wouldn't be represented, and that he knew he wasn't pulling his weight, but because he knows BFF is smarter and faster and more accurate he decided BFF was right, and he'd just let it go. I think the person who said upthread that kids need better guidance on internal deadlines is exactly right. Kids need help setting benchmarks and deciding how and when they'll do the work. That is a fantastic skill, and I hope my kid builds it!
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 13:46     Subject: Re:Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
"My kid is a procrastinator - so I get it. But in PP's case, it should have been her son who adjusted his workstyle to fit the project. Waiting until the last minute is fine if he is doing his own work, but he cannot hold the group hostage just because he rises to the occasion the night before. PP's son and his partner should have done a better job of setting internal deadlines!! However, it is not a good feeling to wait patiently and hope that your partner comes through at the wire."

Why should it have been her son who adjusted his workstyle? Your description of setting internal deadlines could be broadened to describe tasks each should do as well. From that perspective, getting all the work done early is no better than procrastinating. But there is more to the story. It seems to me that even when BFF declared the project "done" that Mr "last minute" could have treated BFF's work as a strong first draft. Mr "last minute" could have filled in any gaps, expanded weak sections, added another point of view and/or polished the writing. The way it worked out, it sounds more like Mr "last minute" is really Mr "don't doing anything if I don't have to".
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 13:35     Subject: Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid just had a rough group project that probably will make his friendship with his BFF pretty rocky for a while. BFF is a type A, academic kid with parents who like to help with projects. DS is a smart kid who hates school and procrastinates, but gets stuff done well in the end. Not a good match. BFF ended up doing 90% of the project at home with his parents, doing each step before deadline and then presenting it to my kid as all done. It was pretty demoralizing to my kid, and must have made BFF feel like DS was a super slacker. Good times.


It's amazing how you position your kid as a victim in this...


I had the same thought!


Really? Didn't mean to sound that way. BFF is an awesome, academic kid. I love him. He and my kid are a terrible fit for group projects because my kid works to deadline and BFF likes do work well ahead. They'd both be better served with partners who work in similar ways. It was indeed sad for my kid to find that his input wasn't needed on anything because BFF did it all before it was supposed to be done. That also isn't good group work behavior.

The work is done. There is nothing to be upset about. I set deadlines way ahead for "kids" like yours at work, so it can be done on time, not at the last moment with no room for an error.


Nope. "The work is done" is not the way you manage staff. If I assign two members of my staff to work together to produce a deliverable and they come up with a timeline and employee A does employee B's piece before employee B was due to submit his piece, employee A is a problem. Why? Because if I thought the best product would have been produced by assigning it to A only, I would have assigned it to A only. But some things are better when they have two different skill sets contributing. And so I assigned it to A and B. A should not do B's work before B can do it, and B should not be late and hold up A. This is what kids are learning! Both the over-controlling kids and the slacker kids and the kids somewhere in the middle. How to work in a team, and negotiate who does what and when. It is a problem for a kid not to do his share on time, and it is a problem for a kid to take control and not give others space to work. Both kids need to learn, or else they are going to be a pain in the ass in the workplace.

EXACTLY! You cannot jump ahead and do someone else's work ahead of schedule and then claim they are a problem. My DS worked with BFF on a project and his best friend did that to him. Luckily, BFF realized what he did and even said it was not fair to do my kid's work and and then complain he did not do it. My kid never got a chance, BUT they worked this out amongst themselves. Now is the time for kids to figure this s** out with some competent adult guidance. Not time for grownups to castigate kids because they do not have the project management skills of 4o year old professionals.
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 13:34     Subject: Re:Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I always hated group projects for this reason.

My son carried many a group project in our elementary school. He carried all of the lazy GT kids whose parents lobbied to get them into the program and then the kids could never do the work unless the parents were doing it or on them constantly.

It comes back to bite them eventually.

I used to tell my son to stop letting his friend be his partner. My son was so gullible, believing every lame excuse the kid came up with. The kid would even fake sick on days a project was due.

Flash forward later---my kid is self-motived, several grade levels ahead in every subject. These other kids are still having their parents run interference.


In this case, DD is gifted tagged kid and the partner is really just not motivated. Doesn't want to go to college, just cooking school. Which is a fine life path. But it does set up a fundamental difference in effort on a joint project.

Who gives a f** if the friend goes to college or cooking school. Do not be an ass. The friend is a procrastinator, unmotivated. She needs to improve her work ethic. These are kids, lets not make one out to be a devil. Kids gain skills on different timelines. Your kid is now learning how to deal with a partner who does not pull her weight.


+1. If OP/PP wants to see pure "teamwork" in action, she should visit a commercial kitchen. I am just thinking that the friend is not interested in the subject.
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 13:32     Subject: Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid just had a rough group project that probably will make his friendship with his BFF pretty rocky for a while. BFF is a type A, academic kid with parents who like to help with projects. DS is a smart kid who hates school and procrastinates, but gets stuff done well in the end. Not a good match. BFF ended up doing 90% of the project at home with his parents, doing each step before deadline and then presenting it to my kid as all done. It was pretty demoralizing to my kid, and must have made BFF feel like DS was a super slacker. Good times.


It's amazing how you position your kid as a victim in this...


I had the same thought!


Really? Didn't mean to sound that way. BFF is an awesome, academic kid. I love him. He and my kid are a terrible fit for group projects because my kid works to deadline and BFF likes do work well ahead. They'd both be better served with partners who work in similar ways. It was indeed sad for my kid to find that his input wasn't needed on anything because BFF did it all before it was supposed to be done. That also isn't good group work behavior.

The work is done. There is nothing to be upset about. I set deadlines way ahead for "kids" like yours at work, so it can be done on time, not at the last moment with no room for an error.


Nope. "The work is done" is not the way you manage staff. If I assign two members of my staff to work together to produce a deliverable and they come up with a timeline and employee A does employee B's piece before employee B was due to submit his piece, employee A is a problem. Why? Because if I thought the best product would have been produced by assigning it to A only, I would have assigned it to A only. But some things are better when they have two different skill sets contributing. And so I assigned it to A and B. A should not do B's work before B can do it, and B should not be late and hold up A. This is what kids are learning! Both the over-controlling kids and the slacker kids and the kids somewhere in the middle. How to work in a team, and negotiate who does what and when. It is a problem for a kid not to do his share on time, and it is a problem for a kid to take control and not give others space to work. Both kids need to learn, or else they are going to be a pain in the ass in the workplace.


My kid is a procrastinator - so I get it. But in PP's case, it should have been her son who adjusted his workstyle to fit the project. Waiting until the last minute is fine if he is doing his own work, but he cannot hold the group hostage just because he rises to the occasion the night before. PP's son and his partner should have done a better job of setting internal deadlines!! However, it is not a good feeling to wait patiently and hope that your partner comes through at the wire.
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 13:21     Subject: Re:Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I always hated group projects for this reason.

My son carried many a group project in our elementary school. He carried all of the lazy GT kids whose parents lobbied to get them into the program and then the kids could never do the work unless the parents were doing it or on them constantly.

It comes back to bite them eventually.

I used to tell my son to stop letting his friend be his partner. My son was so gullible, believing every lame excuse the kid came up with. The kid would even fake sick on days a project was due.

Flash forward later---my kid is self-motived, several grade levels ahead in every subject. These other kids are still having their parents run interference.


In this case, DD is gifted tagged kid and the partner is really just not motivated. Doesn't want to go to college, just cooking school. Which is a fine life path. But it does set up a fundamental difference in effort on a joint project.

Who gives a f** if the friend goes to college or cooking school. Do not be an ass. The friend is a procrastinator, unmotivated. She needs to improve her work ethic. These are kids, lets not make one out to be a devil. Kids gain skills on different timelines. Your kid is now learning how to deal with a partner who does not pull her weight.
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 13:13     Subject: Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid just had a rough group project that probably will make his friendship with his BFF pretty rocky for a while. BFF is a type A, academic kid with parents who like to help with projects. DS is a smart kid who hates school and procrastinates, but gets stuff done well in the end. Not a good match. BFF ended up doing 90% of the project at home with his parents, doing each step before deadline and then presenting it to my kid as all done. It was pretty demoralizing to my kid, and must have made BFF feel like DS was a super slacker. Good times.


It's amazing how you position your kid as a victim in this...


I had the same thought!


Really? Didn't mean to sound that way. BFF is an awesome, academic kid. I love him. He and my kid are a terrible fit for group projects because my kid works to deadline and BFF likes do work well ahead. They'd both be better served with partners who work in similar ways. It was indeed sad for my kid to find that his input wasn't needed on anything because BFF did it all before it was supposed to be done. That also isn't good group work behavior.

The work is done. There is nothing to be upset about. I set deadlines way ahead for "kids" like yours at work, so it can be done on time, not at the last moment with no room for an error.


Nope. "The work is done" is not the way you manage staff. If I assign two members of my staff to work together to produce a deliverable and they come up with a timeline and employee A does employee B's piece before employee B was due to submit his piece, employee A is a problem. Why? Because if I thought the best product would have been produced by assigning it to A only, I would have assigned it to A only. But some things are better when they have two different skill sets contributing. And so I assigned it to A and B. A should not do B's work before B can do it, and B should not be late and hold up A. This is what kids are learning! Both the over-controlling kids and the slacker kids and the kids somewhere in the middle. How to work in a team, and negotiate who does what and when. It is a problem for a kid not to do his share on time, and it is a problem for a kid to take control and not give others space to work. Both kids need to learn, or else they are going to be a pain in the ass in the workplace.
Anonymous
Post 03/13/2018 04:25     Subject: Re:Your 9th grader teams up with a friend with a school project
Anonymous wrote:I did the group projects myself often. We were assigned a partner, so there was no dropping or changing. I am not the management type, so I just did it and forgot about it.


I'm a freaking adult and I still do group projects alone. They're the worst.