Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a DV survivor and a prosecutor who routinely handles DV cases. The "party line" in the criminal justice system is "once an abuser, always an abuser." I think the reality is slightly more nuanced. I strongly believe that it's possible to have a single, minor, isolated DV incident that's truly anomalous. By "minor," I mean something like a push or grabbing an arm roughly. That said, if you've experienced multiple incidents, or any one incident was serious (it left real bruising, a weapon was used or threatened, the assault involved strangulation or grabbing at your throat, any comment/threat about ending your life), I don't think you can overcome that. I've lived through it in my personal life and it will just get increasingly serious and frequent. And regardless of how much he tries, you'll never be able to look at your partner and not see the guy who hit you because you did [insert stupid BS that upset him here].

One more thing...people on DCUM are quick to recommend anger management and therapy for perpetrators of DV. There is no evidence that this type of treatment works. There are real, certified DV treatment programs. They're often called Abuser/Batterer Intervention Programs. They're not perfect, but they're certainly more effective than individual therapy and anger management programs.

+1 excellent post. thank you.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous prosecutor poster coming back to comment on the last two posts. As much as I appreciate their perspectives, I get frustrated when people chalk up DV to "anger issues." DV is about so much more than anger problems. If it were only about his anger, he'd also hit his children, parents, boss, server at a restaurant, other drivers on the road etc. etc. when they made him angry too. There's an additional pathology with domestic abusers that's less fixable than someone who just has problems controlling their anger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It also depends on what is involved and the social context.

Remember all those old movies where the woman slaps the cheating cad? (Or throws her wine in his face?). Doesn’t make her an “abuser.”

Similarly, the occasionally frustrated shaking of someone’s shoulder etc. doesn’t make someone an abuser.

Abuse is not occasional minor physically expressions of frustration—in many cultures that is normal for both men and women.

Abuse is when there is either a severe incident that inflicts or could inflict serious physical harm or repeated incidents (even if non-physical) involving behavior that causes a reasonable person to feel fearful or threatened with serious harm.

This is not to excuse even the more “minor” stuff but just to say that I think the more minor stuff can be relatively easily overcome, whereas serious or repeated physical brutality and threats is a lot tougher.

I get with where you were trying to go with this, but I think that is the point and major cause for concern.
There are a lot of conditions thrown in there that make this definition a bit restrictive towards the facts of how abuse works.
Unfortunately, there are often areas of gray before you get to a clear black and white of the more recognizable forms of abusive behavior - whether physical, emotional, financial, sexual, mental.

The examples you gave are all varying degrees of abuse: inappropriate use of power and control to hurt or injure by mistreatment.

Even if an abusive behavior seems "minor", t is an invasive weed that can rapidly grow and destroy everything around it. Most DV doesn't begin with a punch to the face. It begins with a milder form of the "gray" - that is still abusive.

Individual/societal tolerance of abuse at different places along the spectrum do not change the definition of what abuse actually is.

Ummm, no. Every time someone yells or throws their arms in their air or pushes someone aside when they are leaving a room in a huff or "looms" over someone is not on the same spectrum with beating someone or choking them. It's dangerous to say they are since at that point people are going to lose their ability to identify true abusers.

Domestic abuse is a serious problem, but then there are also a bunch of people who want to identify every relationship problem as some form of domestic abuse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It also depends on what is involved and the social context.

Remember all those old movies where the woman slaps the cheating cad? (Or throws her wine in his face?). Doesn’t make her an “abuser.”

Similarly, the occasionally frustrated shaking of someone’s shoulder etc. doesn’t make someone an abuser.

Abuse is not occasional minor physically expressions of frustration—in many cultures that is normal for both men and women.

Abuse is when there is either a severe incident that inflicts or could inflict serious physical harm or repeated incidents (even if non-physical) involving behavior that causes a reasonable person to feel fearful or threatened with serious harm.

This is not to excuse even the more “minor” stuff but just to say that I think the more minor stuff can be relatively easily overcome, whereas serious or repeated physical brutality and threats is a lot tougher.

I get with where you were trying to go with this, but I think that is the point and major cause for concern.
There are a lot of conditions thrown in there that make this definition a bit restrictive towards the facts of how abuse works.
Unfortunately, there are often areas of gray before you get to a clear black and white of the more recognizable forms of abusive behavior - whether physical, emotional, financial, sexual, mental.

The examples you gave are all varying degrees of abuse: inappropriate use of power and control to hurt or injure by mistreatment.

Even if an abusive behavior seems "minor", t is an invasive weed that can rapidly grow and destroy everything around it. Most DV doesn't begin with a punch to the face. It begins with a milder form of the "gray" - that is still abusive.

Individual/societal tolerance of abuse at different places along the spectrum do not change the definition of what abuse actually is.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know. My DH was abusive. More emotionally than physically: lots of yelling, cursing, insulting, slamming doors, threatening to leave, plus occasionally blocking,looming, and grabbing (my arm, my phone). He’s also military and he DEFINITELY has anger issues that go way beyonfpd our marriage: gets into fist fights with people, etc.

I finally got him to go into therapy and on meds (bipolar). It took an ultimatum: therapy or the marriage is over. It made a huge difference. After a year, he is now much less volatile and angry. In many ways s very different man.

But the jury is still out.... check back in a decade!

Anonymous wrote:

It also depends on what is involved and the social context.

Remember all those old movies where the woman slaps the cheating cad? (Or throws her wine in his face?). Doesn’t make her an “abuser.”

Similarly, the occasionally frustrated shaking of someone’s shoulder etc. doesn’t make someone an abuser.

Abuse is not occasional minor physically expressions of frustration—in many cultures that is normal for both men and women.

Abuse is when there is either a severe incident that inflicts or could inflict serious physical harm or repeated incidents (even if non-physical) involving behavior that causes a reasonable person to feel fearful or threatened with serious harm.

This is not to excuse even the more “minor” stuff but just to say that I think the more minor stuff can be relatively easily overcome, whereas serious or repeated physical brutality and threats is a lot tougher.