Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The iq rest is free at GMU for low income families who qualify for free or reduced price lunch. Have you seen low income ppl w/o smart phones? I haven't. The biggest issue in low income schools is lack of parent involvement.

What do smart phones have to do with this?

Also, the stats are about minority appeals. Not low income appeals. You seem to have conflated the two in your mind.

They have the information at their fingertips. I have personally learned so much online about this process, and anyone can too.

Unfortunately most Hispanics and Blacks are also low income. That's the connection.

Asians are also minorities, but I don't think the OP was concerned with their acceptance/appeal acceptance rates.

To blame parents that do their due dilligence because other parents maybe discouraged to do so is preposterous.

Ok. I got most of my information about how the process works on the forum. I found out about many kids in the 120s getting in, the WISC, prepping....It has been a great resource. There is no comparable board in Spanish, and many Hispanic parents (at least at the schools my kids attend) don't speak English well enough to find this information. I often found myself butchering the Spanish language to make play dates. No one is blaming parents that do their due diligence, I'm just saying when you don't know the language it can be hard. AARTs should at least say, if you feel your child's scores are strong enough and you are unable to fill out the form, just fill in the name and sign the parent referral form. This way the child will be considered, despite the parents' language/literacy barriers. The AART generally submits the test scores, GBRS and work samples anyway, which should give a good enough picture. I don't know about you, but I want my kids to grow up in a society where we help each other.

Perhaps if the kids are not native English speakers then their writing and school samples are at a lower level than would typically be seen in an AAP packet?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP should be for gifted kids, not just high achievers.

This. It should be for those outliers who struggle to get their needs met in the gen ed classroom. They’re so far ahead that they have no peers who can understand the content they are working on. There should be a cut-off in the 140s or higher.

The cut off should be at 2 deviations away from the norm, over 130 (99%), and should be a hard cut off.

The only appeals that should be allowed are ones with WISC higher than 130.

Anonymous wrote:They supposedly do a sweep at the end of the first round to make sure decisions are consistent. Perhaps they could pay special attention to URM apps then.
Then, if it's not done already, the AARTs could be instructed to counsel URM parents more on the appeals process.

Like anything, it's not a perfect system, but the pool functions so that no parent action is needed in the first instance and teachers can submit referrals as well so I feel the system tries to catch people whose parents don't know about it, and that they also try to look at other things aside from just standardized test scores like work samples and GBRS.

My kids have aged out of this system, but around 6 or 7 years back fcps held a series of meetings about AAP detailing all the things they were doing to bring more non Asian and non white kids into AAP. They were very open about their opinion that there were too many Asians and whites in AAP. One of the things they touted as having done to increase underrepresented minorities into AAP was adding the NNAT. They said that their hope was that since it was a non verbal test it should have captured more non English speakers and groups that traditionally do not score as high on standardized tests. IN their presentation the results showed that the end result was an increase of Asians and whites who ended up in the pool and AAP, and a static number of underrepresented minorities, so the gap between the groups actually widened.

Fcps had slides on this, plus slides about adding young scholars in low performing schools specifically for black and Hispanic kids, smaller class sizes in schools with under represented minority kids, and a few other things like casting a wider net in how they accept kids for AAP.

All of the things they touted at that presentation resulted in more Asian and white kids entering AAP.

It was a very strange presentation and people were very angry at it, especially with their open racism against Asian kids.

I am sure someone has the slide show archived online somewhere.

Not having many underrepresented minorities in AAP is something fcps has been working on for years but everything they try results in bringing more Asian kids into the fold. Everything people suggest here probably have already been tried.

The only thing that might work that fcps hasn't done would be to bring AAP admission down to a pyramid level instead of a district wide level. Each pyramid doing their own AAP admission would mean that more kids from pyramids like Stuart, Lee and Mount Vernon would have kids selected for AAP as they would need to place their top kids to fill their own centers. Although if trends hold, it would end up being the native kids and not the ESOL kids filling the classes.

A lot of it is knowing the system here in FCPS. I'm white, and it honestly didn't occur to me that a large group of kids under the cutoff would be admitted. I assumed that the program was only for gifted kids and outliers, and I also assumed that the school would either tell me that my child belonged in AAP, or would automatically refer and place my child. It wasn't until after I started reading dcum and talking to neighbors that I realized that strong parental involvement was one reason many kids were being admitted to AAP. I can easily see why hispanic or lower SES families who don't have the luxury of being over-involved in their children's education might assume that the schools would just appropriately place their children, that children who didn't test in don't belong in AAP, and that if a child is rejected, they should just accept that and move on.

People have said on these forums that one of the reasons for so many parent referrals, appeals, and applying year after year is that parents just won't take "no" for an answer. On the flip side, clearly some groups are taking "no" for an answer way too easily. I would still love to see the demographics for parent referrals for kids in the 120-126 score range as well as the 126-131 range. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the overwhelming majority of white or asian kids in the 120-125 range are parent referred, while a decent percent of black or hispanic ones aren't.

from the article - https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/school-systems-appeals-process-leaves-some-minorities-out/2018/02/03/1dbc302c-08eb-11e8-aa61-f3391373867e_story.html?utm_term=.06544f0faaf7

"It’s not just that appeals are costly, said Tina Hone, who advocated for minority students when she was a Fairfax County school board member. Some black and Hispanic families may be less interested in advanced placement when it means moving a child out of neighborhood school where specialized education isn’t offered, she said.

“It’s about cultural norms,” said Hone, who is African-American. “It’s not just about money.”"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For recent immigrant parents, I understand them not knowing or understanding the programs.

All others - it's disinterest or laziness

Those parents figure out how to make sure to know the sign up times for Angel Trees, fill put forms for free benefits like free lunch, how to go about purchasing smart phones and service, so yeah, they can figure out how to read the papers sent home from school and file the appeal.

You disgust me.

Why? Because you can't wrap your mind around the idea because it doesn't fit your narrative?

NP here. Actually you have no idea what you’re talking about. I work in a Title 1 school in FCPS and am in awe of the survival skills of our families. We have many parents who don’t know to fill out the forms and need help. We have many parents whose phones are in and out of service. And we have many parents who wouldn’t even know the first step in how to get a free WISC at GMU. For you it’s as simple as a drive to the mall. But when you’re living in a one bedroom, don’t speak the language and working 2-3 jobs including weekends, filing an appeal would be like asking you to file your taxes long form in Chinese.

DP. I voted yes on meals tax. Unclear to me where the money is going to come from to give more resources.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For recent immigrant parents, I understand them not knowing or understanding the programs.

All others - it's disinterest or laziness

Those parents figure out how to make sure to know the sign up times for Angel Trees, fill put forms for free benefits like free lunch, how to go about purchasing smart phones and service, so yeah, they can figure out how to read the papers sent home from school and file the appeal.

You disgust me.

Why? Because you can't wrap your mind around the idea because it doesn't fit your narrative?

NP here. Actually you have no idea what you’re talking about. I work in a Title 1 school in FCPS and am in awe of the survival skills of our families. We have many parents who don’t know to fill out the forms and need help. We have many parents whose phones are in and out of service. And we have many parents who wouldn’t even know the first step in how to get a free WISC at GMU. For you it’s as simple as a drive to the mall. But when you’re living in a one bedroom, don’t speak the language and working 2-3 jobs including weekends, filing an appeal would be like asking you to file your taxes long form in Chinese.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The iq rest is free at GMU for low income families who qualify for free or reduced price lunch. Have you seen low income ppl w/o smart phones? I haven't. The biggest issue in low income schools is lack of parent involvement.

What do smart phones have to do with this?

Also, the stats are about minority appeals. Not low income appeals. You seem to have conflated the two in your mind.

They have the information at their fingertips. I have personally learned so much online about this process, and anyone can too.

Unfortunately most Hispanics and Blacks are also low income. That's the connection.

Asians are also minorities, but I don't think the OP was concerned with their acceptance/appeal acceptance rates.

To blame parents that do their due dilligence because other parents maybe discouraged to do so is preposterous.

Is the author Asian? Note they lump all Asians together. Breakdown on white and Asian sub categories? Note TJ new class was over 70% Asian. Why lump Hispanics together from anchor babies to unaccompanied minors?

Years ago FCPS used cogat and Otis lennon-then flipped to naglieri for equity. Re administered the test to all 3rd graders to get more URM. 4rth grade had a huge movement of white and Asian to GT/AAP. Back fired and made huge capacity issues.

Over 30% at some schools base populations qualify for AAP. Young scholars does more than I ever did with my children. Decades later the AAP program is out of control from it's original.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For recent immigrant parents, I understand them not knowing or understanding the programs.

All others - it's disinterest or laziness

Those parents figure out how to make sure to know the sign up times for Angel Trees, fill put forms for free benefits like free lunch, how to go about purchasing smart phones and service, so yeah, they can figure out how to read the papers sent home from school and file the appeal.

You disgust me.

Why? Because you can't wrap your mind around the idea because it doesn't fit your narrative?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The iq rest is free at GMU for low income families who qualify for free or reduced price lunch. Have you seen low income ppl w/o smart phones? I haven't. The biggest issue in low income schools is lack of parent involvement.

What do smart phones have to do with this?

Also, the stats are about minority appeals. Not low income appeals. You seem to have conflated the two in your mind.

They have the information at their fingertips. I have personally learned so much online about this process, and anyone can too.

Unfortunately most Hispanics and Blacks are also low income. That's the connection.

Asians are also minorities, but I don't think the OP was concerned with their acceptance/appeal acceptance rates.

To blame parents that do their due dilligence because other parents maybe discouraged to do so is preposterous.

Ok. I got most of my information about how the process works on the forum. I found out about many kids in the 120s getting in, the WISC, prepping....It has been a great resource. There is no comparable board in Spanish, and many Hispanic parents (at least at the schools my kids attend) don't speak English well enough to find this information. I often found myself butchering the Spanish language to make play dates. No one is blaming parents that do their due diligence, I'm just saying when you don't know the language it can be hard. AARTs should at least say, if you feel your child's scores are strong enough and you are unable to fill out the form, just fill in the name and sign the parent referral form. This way the child will be considered, despite the parents' language/literacy barriers. The AART generally submits the test scores, GBRS and work samples anyway, which should give a good enough picture. I don't know about you, but I want my kids to grow up in a society where we help each other.

Anonymous wrote:For recent immigrant parents, I understand them not knowing or understanding the programs.

All others - it's disinterest or laziness

Those parents figure out how to make sure to know the sign up times for Angel Trees, fill put forms for free benefits like free lunch, how to go about purchasing smart phones and service, so yeah, they can figure out how to read the papers sent home from school and file the appeal.

You disgust me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White privilege is on full display. Discrimination, both economic and racial, is the reason for this. Your kids are not more deserving, just more privileged.

And Asian privilege?

I said economic and racial. I don't think it's fair that children with more educated, well off parents get increased access to opportunities that only reinforce the gaps between the haves and have nots.

For recent immigrant parents, I understand them not knowing or understanding the programs.

All others - it's disinterest or laziness

Those parents figure out how to make sure to know the sign up times for Angel Trees, fill put forms for free benefits like free lunch, how to go about purchasing smart phones and service, so yeah, they can figure out how to read the papers sent home from school and file the appeal.

Anonymous wrote:White privilege is on full display. Discrimination, both economic and racial, is the reason for this. Your kids are not more deserving, just more privileged.

And Asian privilege?

White privilege is on full display. Discrimination, both economic and racial, is the reason for this. Your kids are not more deserving, just more privileged.