Anonymous wrote:Make AAP and general education self-selective. But the fear is that gen ed will be “Brown” and aap will be “white” and “Asian” but this is already the fact. Alternatively, our country could start CONTROLLING our borders because the issue in gen ed is the number of low learners that the teachers/schools focus on to receive a pass rate, and the just fine kids are not stimulated or challenged. Until we fix a broken policy, aap will remain the choice for educated parents.

Are you saying that brown people will not push themselves and try to participate/perform in the AAP program? Are you also implying that by not allowing self selection we are making sure to provide diversity opportunities for brown people?

Anonymous wrote:Just worry about your own kid. Do what’s best. Complaining will not stop the next person from prepping.

Why does the OP care?
Take your own advise and worry about your own kid.

Anonymous wrote:

And by the way .... can you imagine the social destructiveness of letting a kid make friends (in AAP) for a year or two and then pushing him/her out? There is no way that can be good for the individual child to be under such pressure and then have all social connections disrupted

Poster ~ do you realize this is the exact, cruel and dysfunctional scenario for the non-AAP students?

No. No one is pushing non-aap kids out of their school if they don't meet a particular teacher's expectations.

And by the way .... can you imagine the social destructiveness of letting a kid make friends (in AAP) for a year or two and then pushing him/her out? There is no way that can be good for the individual child to be under such pressure and then have all social connections disrupted

Poster ~ do you realize this is the exact, cruel and dysfunctional scenario for the non-AAP students?

Make AAP and general education self-selective. But the fear is that gen ed will be “Brown” and aap will be “white” and “Asian” but this is already the fact. Alternatively, our country could start CONTROLLING our borders because the issue in gen ed is the number of low learners that the teachers/schools focus on to receive a pass rate, and the just fine kids are not stimulated or challenged. Until we fix a broken policy, aap will remain the choice for educated parents.

Anonymous wrote:
Why would parents who prep share that info with teachers, even if asked? Asking the kids is the only way to get an honest answer.

BTW, if FCPS "tacitly accept" prepping, as an earlier poster argued, then why are teachers asking.

Would we accept it if someone asked our kids sensitive information because parents wouldn't share such information? There's an ethical issue at the very least, regardless of individual teachers' stand on the issue, if it is not an FCPS policy.

A simple solution would be to reverse the current approach -- instead of going through all these efforts to select kids for AAP, make AAP the default for FCPS, and create a special program (call it whatever) for those kids who can't keep up or need the extra help. This would also raise the overall standard for elementary education. Even the FCPS AAP is far behind the education standards of other countries, if not other parts of the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank God FCPS understands that a child’s mental well-being is more important than downsizing the program. You sound like a horrible person and obviously not an educator. If you are an educator, may God help the poor children under your direction!

No. FCPS clearly has no concern at all for a child's mental well-being. That's why they've allowed so many horrible race-to-nowhere, high pressure situations like AAP and TJ to flourish. The horrible people are the ones who think that setting children up to fail by pushing them into stressful academic environments that are beyond their capabilities is a good policy; It's not those who think that many, many children would be better off if they hadn't been admitted in the first place. And again, why is the child's mental well being about being removed from AAP so critical, but that same child's mental well being from struggling in AAP, going through tons of tutoring, having anxiety breakdowns, etc. isn't? Why is that same child's mental well being more important than the numerous academic peers who were rejected from AAP and told that they aren't smart or aren't "potentially gifted?"

Virginia is not Maryland! We are a pro-parent State. Parents should be the only ones deciding to remove a child from aap once child is in aap. If you prefer a more government knows best state, move across the bridge. Fwiw I know of ONE child who had a tutor and that was for geometry in 8th grade. Personally I’ve told my kids that if they need tutors, they’re misplaced. But I make no stipulation for orhers’ children. Nor should you.

Anonymous wrote:Thank God FCPS understands that a child’s mental well-being is more important than downsizing the program. You sound like a horrible person and obviously not an educator. If you are an educator, may God help the poor children under your direction!

No. FCPS clearly has no concern at all for a child's mental well-being. That's why they've allowed so many horrible race-to-nowhere, high pressure situations like AAP and TJ to flourish. The horrible people are the ones who think that setting children up to fail by pushing them into stressful academic environments that are beyond their capabilities is a good policy; It's not those who think that many, many children would be better off if they hadn't been admitted in the first place. And again, why is the child's mental well being about being removed from AAP so critical, but that same child's mental well being from struggling in AAP, going through tons of tutoring, having anxiety breakdowns, etc. isn't? Why is that same child's mental well being more important than the numerous academic peers who were rejected from AAP and told that they aren't smart or aren't "potentially gifted?"

Thank God FCPS understands that a child’s mental well-being is more important than downsizing the program. You sound like a horrible person and obviously not an educator. If you are an educator, may God help the poor children under your direction!

Anonymous wrote:

Why would parents who prep share that info with teachers, even if asked? Asking the kids is the only way to get an honest answer.

BTW, if FCPS "tacitly accept" prepping, as an earlier poster argued, then why are teachers asking.

Not all teachers are asking, and it's certainly not FCPS policy to ask. None of my kids have ever been asked. Individual teachers are asking because they personally have a problem with the prepping and want to take some sort of a stand.

Asking kids isn't necessarily going to give an honest answer. If they can be prepped for tests, they can also be prepped on lying about it or not raising their hands when the teacher asks.

Anonymous wrote: But, I do not like the idea of a single teacher thinking that they should oust a kid from AAP. It takes more than one person's opinion to get the kid into AAP. It should take a lot more than one person pushing a kid out.

It shouldn't be a single teacher deciding to oust a kid. It's reasonable, though, for teacher's opinion + SOL scores + iready scores + grades to oust a kid. If the kid isn't advanced on any measure, that kid shouldn't be in AAP. Yes, it would be socially destructive to move out of AAP. That's why so many kids who are struggling and need tutors to keep up will stay in the program (even if it's ultimately detrimental to the kid to do so). It's also socially destructive to be the slowest person in the AAP classroom or to be struggling so much with school. It's also socially destructive to be labeled as "not potentially gifted" and stuck in gen ed when all of the other bright kids go to the center. There isn't a perfect solution that prevents social issues.

To me, the best solution is to cast a much smaller net in 3rd grade, but then let in more kids after that, rather than casting a very wide net for 3rd. So, for 3rd grade, only the kids who clearly need gifted services would get admitted. For each grade after that, they would have better metrics for achievement (performance in advanced math, SOLs, etc.) as well as more updated CogAT scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody would have something to gain if FCPS has a system where no one can prep into AAP so that you can preserve the quality of the program and accept only those kids who really need the services as originally designed. This prepping issue will never go away unless FCPS addresses this. Obviously looking at everything else besides test scores such as GBRS work examples is helping to solve the problem.

Maybe at the end of each year, the teacher can make a placement recommendation--based on the work performed in the AAP classroom---Continue with AAP or Do Not Continue with AAP. That way the kids that prepped but can't keep up are weeded out for the following year.

And by the way .... can you imagine the social destructiveness of letting a kid make friends in AAP for a year or two and then pushing him/her out? There is no way that can be good for the individual child to be under such pressure and then have all social connections disrupted.

That has to be bad policy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everybody would have something to gain if FCPS has a system where no one can prep into AAP so that you can preserve the quality of the program and accept only those kids who really need the services as originally designed. This prepping issue will never go away unless FCPS addresses this. Obviously looking at everything else besides test scores such as GBRS work examples is helping to solve the problem.

Maybe at the end of each year, the teacher can make a placement recommendation--based on the work performed in the AAP classroom---Continue with AAP or Do Not Continue with AAP. That way the kids that prepped but can't keep up are weeded out for the following year.

Sometimes they do. I know someone who had a 3rd grade teacher tell her that one of her kids (twins) should not be in AAP. The mom said "thanks for your advice." She kept the kid in AAP. He's doing just fine as a 6th grader. I'm glad that mom didn't listen. Parents can opt out if their kid is stuggling and stressing too much... that's a choice they have. I've known a few who did that. Once the kid qualifies, I think the school has an obligation to meet the kid's needs (even if that involves some ADHD or perfectionism or anxiety). If they want to increase the requirements or scores to get in -- fine with me. But, I do not like the idea of a single teacher thinking that they should oust a kid from AAP. It takes more than one person's opinion to get the kid into AAP. It should take a lot more than one person pushing a kid out.

Anonymous wrote:Everybody would have something to gain if FCPS has a system where no one can prep into AAP so that you can preserve the quality of the program and accept only those kids who really need the services as originally designed. This prepping issue will never go away unless FCPS addresses this. Obviously looking at everything else besides test scores such as GBRS work examples is helping to solve the problem.

Maybe at the end of each year, the teacher can make a placement recommendation--based on the work performed in the AAP classroom---Continue with AAP or Do Not Continue with AAP. That way the kids that prepped but can't keep up are weeded out for the following year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn’t matter what you think. There’s no law against prepping.

My oldest scored perfect on the NNAT. I didn’t even know what it was. School accused me of prepping. I was unaware that you could - she was my oldest. She also scored perfect/nearly perfect on the SOLs.

I made sure to prep my younger ones once I knew about prepping. AAP has been wonderful for all of them.

That's interesting! How did the school accuse you of prepping and what did they/you do about it? I see in some other threads on this forum that the teachers ask the kids if they prepped. I think that's rather sneaky (and unethical) that teachers would use the vulnerability and innocence of kids to glean such information rather than asking adults. It is also an unreliable way make any judgments or decisions on prepping, based on information gathered by putting second graders on the spot.

As a PP pointed out, if it is about Advanced ACADEMICS, give a test on academics (advanced math/language arts etc.) and go from there. It is unconvincing that scores on NNAT and CogAT correlate to high performance in academics in later years.

Why would parents who prep share that info with teachers, even if asked? Asking the kids is the only way to get an honest answer.

BTW, if FCPS "tacitly accept" prepping, as an earlier poster argued, then why are teachers asking.