Anonymous wrote:I have a 14 year old daughter. Her dad and I are still married. There are times when she asks me to bring something up with her dad because she's uncomfortable about it. Because my husband and I both value each other's relationship with our child, when something like that happens, we talk through scenarios with her, and then have her be the one presenting the issue. If we had divorced, bitterly, I can imagine a scenario where we might not be as good at communicating with each other, and with encouraging her to communicate with us.

I'd ask her out to dinner, neutral ground, to talk about what's going on, what's bothering her, and what solutions she thinks might work. You should be listening at this meeting, not talking. And lest you think this is some sort of "divorced dad stuck with talking to his kid out at dinner" I'll say that when my daughter has had particular issues this has been a tactic we've used. 14 year olds are tough. They have a lot going on. Sometimes they need to know they have the floor in neutral ground. Stick with the mantra that you love her, and want to figure out a solution. You love her, and want nothing but the best for her. You love her, and you're there for her. And let her lay it out. It may well be that her issue is you're a harsher disciplinarian than her mother but it could be something else, and it really doesn't sound like parental alienation. Parents can have different standards for discipline without it being a tactic they're using against each other, and children can have preferences for one standard of discipline over the other.

Do you have any friends who are raising teenagers in intact families? Having someone like that you can chat with might give you a different perspective.

Perhaps you could look at your approach and try to find ways to include her Dad. You are deliberately separating your child from her father instead of saying, lets talk to him together.

I have a 14 year old daughter. Her dad and I are still married. There are times when she asks me to bring something up with her dad because she's uncomfortable about it. Because my husband and I both value each other's relationship with our child, when something like that happens, we talk through scenarios with her, and then have her be the one presenting the issue. If we had divorced, bitterly, I can imagine a scenario where we might not be as good at communicating with each other, and with encouraging her to communicate with us.

I'd ask her out to dinner, neutral ground, to talk about what's going on, what's bothering her, and what solutions she thinks might work. You should be listening at this meeting, not talking. And lest you think this is some sort of "divorced dad stuck with talking to his kid out at dinner" I'll say that when my daughter has had particular issues this has been a tactic we've used. 14 year olds are tough. They have a lot going on. Sometimes they need to know they have the floor in neutral ground. Stick with the mantra that you love her, and want to figure out a solution. You love her, and want nothing but the best for her. You love her, and you're there for her. And let her lay it out. It may well be that her issue is you're a harsher disciplinarian than her mother but it could be something else, and it really doesn't sound like parental alienation. Parents can have different standards for discipline without it being a tactic they're using against each other, and children can have preferences for one standard of discipline over the other.

Do you have any friends who are raising teenagers in intact families? Having someone like that you can chat with might give you a different perspective.

OP, I sympathize. My stepdaughter pulled the same thing any time my now-DH tried to create structure or enforce consequences for his daughter. (Note, we didn't meet or
start dating until 3 years post divorce, and we did t get married until the summer after she graduated HS.) they had 50/50 custody through HS but when my DH would take away her iPhone at night (because she was up texting and sexting all night) or check on homework or hold a curfew, she would go back to her mom's and say she wanted to live full time with mom, who had no rules or expectations for behavior except she wanted her DD to be her best friend. But after a few weeks, SD would boomerang back to her dad's because she would be fed up that her mom never cooked and spent all her time with her boyfriend...and honestly I believe my SD really did crave the structure and limits, though she chafed against them as all teenagers do. The problem was not that she resisted the structure...teenagers both need it and hate it. The problem that her mother enabled her avoidance of consequences in every way because she thought it made her a good mom to "defend" her daughter against her strict father (who, frankly, wasn't even remotely strict by any reasonable measure.)

The pattern continued all through HS and a couple of years beyond. She'd get fed up with her mom or want something (monetary) from her dad and come back, but as soon as he would try to engage with her about her grades or her boyfriends or her behavior, she'd have a tantrum and go back to her mom. Who never questioned anything or denied anything or parented in any way.

I wish I had some kind of "this is how we solved it" advice to offer you. My SD has gone further and further off the rails for years and her mom keeps enabling her. She is now a heroin addict, and her mom keeps giving her money. She came home to us last year and we got her into a rehab and paid some legal bills and all her medical costs, but she went back to her unsafe environment and to the drugs pretty much immediately afterward and her mom refused to hold the bottom line on not providing financial support for anything but recovery. We are the bad guys. And her mom will probably "love" her into an overdose.

If you have any way to influence her into family therapy with you, make that a top priority. And if you have another relationship that could be put on a back burner for some years, DO IT. If a girlfriend or new spouse is part of what makes your house hard for your daughter, prioritize your kid!!! We thought we were covering thins by eating to marry until after she graduated but I was too much in his life when she was a teen; frankly, I was too much a competition for his attention. I tried not to be but that was the reality. Relationships can wait. Your child cannot. Too much can go wrong when a teen girl is alienated from her dad. Fight with all youbhave got in you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I was not clear. The child has responsibility, yes, but she is also under her mother's sway. So she's not a free actor, but neither is she without independent judgement.

I also did not mean to equate what I do for her as tit for tat in terms of time. We have a great time together, do activities, etc. But because I have more resources, and because I am not incredibly bitter and angry like her mother, I have gone out of my way to make her life more fun and livable at BOTH houses. I was the one who found and arranged her favorite activity. I have been the one to buy her things for both houses, rather than just have the "cool" stuff here.

Yes, but that is what a parent does. It's your responsibility to help raise your child. It is not on your DD that you got a divorce.

No, each parent is to provide in their own home. Anything extra is a bonus/being decent.

"Decent" is hardly a high bar.

I am my child's parent 24/7. If he's with me, at school, or with someone else, he's still my child, and I still want to make sure he's having a good quality of life, and his needs are met. If playing soccer or having access to a laptop to do homework, or wearing good quality shoes contributes to that quality of life, then I'm going to make sure those things happen for him, regardless of where he is at the time he goes to or uses them.

If you see yourself as only a parent when your kid is physically with you, then you're not really a parent at all, you're someone your kid visits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I was not clear. The child has responsibility, yes, but she is also under her mother's sway. So she's not a free actor, but neither is she without independent judgement.

I also did not mean to equate what I do for her as tit for tat in terms of time. We have a great time together, do activities, etc. But because I have more resources, and because I am not incredibly bitter and angry like her mother, I have gone out of my way to make her life more fun and livable at BOTH houses. I was the one who found and arranged her favorite activity. I have been the one to buy her things for both houses, rather than just have the "cool" stuff here.

Yes, but that is what a parent does. It's your responsibility to help raise your child. It is not on your DD that you got a divorce.

No, each parent is to provide in their own home. Anything extra is a bonus/being decent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I was not clear. The child has responsibility, yes, but she is also under her mother's sway. So she's not a free actor, but neither is she without independent judgement.

I also did not mean to equate what I do for her as tit for tat in terms of time. We have a great time together, do activities, etc. But because I have more resources, and because I am not incredibly bitter and angry like her mother, I have gone out of my way to make her life more fun and livable at BOTH houses. I was the one who found and arranged her favorite activity. I have been the one to buy her things for both houses, rather than just have the "cool" stuff here.

Yes, but that is what a parent does. It's your responsibility to help raise your child. It is not on your DD that you got a divorce.

Oh did you go out of your way? I hope she praised you adequately.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I was not clear. The child has responsibility, yes, but she is also under her mother's sway. So she's not a free actor, but neither is she without independent judgement.

I also did not mean to equate what I do for her as tit for tat in terms of time. We have a great time together, do activities, etc. But because I have more resources, and because I am not incredibly bitter and angry like her mother, I have gone out of my way to make her life more fun and livable at BOTH houses. I was the one who found and arranged her favorite activity. I have been the one to buy her things for both houses, rather than just have the "cool" stuff here.

Yes, but that is what a parent does. It's your responsibility to help raise your child. It is not on your DD that you got a divorce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

You sound a lot like my manipulative, controlling father who I no longer talk to. It's funny that you call your ex bitter, but you have not managed to make a single post in this thread that does not bash her. You are bitter, manipulative, and, worst of all, lying about it.

You sound like my husband's kids whose mother cheated on him, lied to the kids about everything regarding him, they believe him and grew up in a pretty crappy environment as they wouldn't let him in their closed world no matter how hard he tried. Funny, they still call with their demands... it would be so nice if they stopped contact like you.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

You sound a lot like my manipulative, controlling father who I no longer talk to. It's funny that you call your ex bitter, but you have not managed to make a single post in this thread that does not bash her. You are bitter, manipulative, and, worst of all, lying about it.

Anonymous wrote:You sound awful. My kids have a dad like you. They don't want to see him either and go through major emotional and physiological issues when forced. They're a bit younger than your dd.

My cousins are adults now but grew up with a self righteous, controlling dad like you. It didn't turn out well.

Go to therapy and discuss some of your 'parenting'. You sound terribly controlling and unable to see any flaw in yourself.

Or, maybe you are the problem and projecting your needs and feelings and anger on the father and you are clear you don't want them to be with their dad so they say no to humor you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. I'm not trying to equate the "stuff" and "money" with parenting. I'm really not. I am (I hope) very involved and active in her life.

I'm also not trying to "manipulate" her.

I'm trying to discern the best course of action that makes her realize - eventually, maybe - that her actions and decisions have consequences; that she should begin to have some responsibility.

Incidentally she's also pissed I took her phone away (she broke her ironclad, repeat promise to give me the unlock code) and that I won't let her see a friend who is a terrible influence. Guess who lets her use a phone and guess who lets her see her friend?

I'm confused. I thought mom wasn't letting her see you? But you're very involved? Could you clarify what the problem is? It might help with advice. What is DD deciding that is causing problems? Is she asking to stay at moms when it's your turn? How far apart do you and mom live?

We were 50/50 until just a few days ago. DD just emailed me saying my house was contributing to her emotional issues and she wanted to stay with mom for a while. We live about a mile apart.

The absurdity is that her mother is too stupid to disguise the fact she wrote the email and signed it in a manner totally different than DD, so I know ex's bitter hand is all over this.

Respond with a firm, "No, I will see you Tuesday per the usual schedule. I'm looking forward to your basketball game Thursday. Love you Larla!"

Don't allow a change in the schedule - for either daughter.

And while some of this might be on the mom, realize that 14years is a shitty age, and attitudes are shitty at that age. I recommend some family counseling (and probably individual counseling for you), but not because you're doing this wrong. Just because this is HARD, and having some professional support to navigate it might help.

This. Once you stop visitation it will always become an excuse. You stay firm on the parenting schedule and tell her you will get both or all three of you (Mom) into family counseling and individual counseling. She can either just do it on her weeks with you or you'll be happy to transport her on Mom's weeks if Mom is not available. You are happy two work with her on her concerns but ultimately you are the parent.

Ugh you sound just like my FIL. Awful.

Hey OP, did you ever tell us if there was a new girlfriend or wife in the picture?

You sound awful. My kids have a dad like you. They don't want to see him either and go through major emotional and physiological issues when forced. They're a bit younger than your dd.

My cousins are adults now but grew up with a self righteous, controlling dad like you. It didn't turn out well.

Go to therapy and discuss some of your 'parenting'. You sound terribly controlling and unable to see any flaw in yourself.

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t allow a schedule change. If mom and DD and dad want to see a therapist for child and get medical opinion on custody change, fantastic. But no way I would agree to it under circumstances described.

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