Anonymous wrote:I would have liked to see the tax bill give more to the middle class earners but my question is why did the Democrats not take the initiative when they had the presidency, the senate and the house under their control from 2008 to 2010. Instead of doing this they focused on ACA which is now collapsing because it was structurally unsound. They passed a $700+ billion spending stimulus and what lasting benefit did we see from that legislation? Why are Democrats always associated with tax increases and increased social spending?

Yes, the tax bill will result in an increase in the national debt if there is not increased GDP and time will tell if that happens. But Democrats are the last people who should talk about deficits given that the debt just about doubled from $10 trillion to $20 trillion in the eight years that Obama was in office during this period.

The next thing we need is welfare reform and I'd love to see the Democrats take the initiative on this because since Clinton did it in the mid-90s - and what he did was commendable - we have not had any significant welfare reform. The same holds true regarding what will replace ACA - rather than Schumer and Pelosi saying that they are only open to fixes to ACA they should be willing to work with the Republicans to come up with something that is viable even if it bears no resemblance to ACA. If they don't do so, they can't stay aloof and then blame whatever product the Republicans come up with.

Because tax cuts weren’t needed?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Democrats really believe that this tax bill will be the undoing of the Republican party in 2018, they'd want it to go through. I think the reality is that they know most of the bill is a net positive for the majority of Americans.

No, we can do math. This is an atrocity. Democrats don't want to screw the country over in the meantime till we crush Repubes in 2018.

The educated realize that the tax cuts will expire, and when they do, taxes for most will go up or at the least, there will be no tax cut for this class. The only tax cuts that are permanent are those that help the 1%.

As a PP on another thread noted, if my taxes are going to go up, at the least, it should be to pay for better social services for everyone, *NOT* to pay for tax cuts for the rich, which is what this tax bill does. That's why people are upset.

x10000000

We are going to get killed on loosing the state and local tax deduction. Virginia’s rate is 5.75% (not even that high) which is $11,500 for a family making 200,000. $17,250 if you make $300k. And that is before mortgage interest, which is another $8-12k for most people. Guess we’ll be taking the standard. Ugh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is an excellent bill and best of all the individual mandate will be repealed. It will give us a chance to come up with a viable alternative to the ACA

Excuse me as I laugh myself to death.

You morons had how many years to come up with an alternative? Kept trying to repeal saying your unseen plan was better? Then finally get your wet dream of total government control and have...nothing?

Please...

It is coming after the new year from what I hear. It passed muster with Collins so it must be ok.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Democrats really believe that this tax bill will be the undoing of the Republican party in 2018, they'd want it to go through. I think the reality is that they know most of the bill is a net positive for the majority of Americans.

No, we can do math. This is an atrocity. Democrats don't want to screw the country over in the meantime till we crush Repubes in 2018.

The educated realize that the tax cuts will expire, and when they do, taxes for most will go up or at the least, there will be no tax cut for this class. The only tax cuts that are permanent are those that help the 1%.

As a PP on another thread noted, if my taxes are going to go up, at the least, it should be to pay for better social services for everyone, *NOT* to pay for tax cuts for the rich, which is what this tax bill does. That's why people are upset.

I would have liked to see the tax bill give more to the middle class earners but my question is why did the Democrats not take the initiative when they had the presidency, the senate and the house under their control from 2008 to 2010. Instead of doing this they focused on ACA which is now collapsing because it was structurally unsound. They passed a $700+ billion spending stimulus and what lasting benefit did we see from that legislation? Why are Democrats always associated with tax increases and increased social spending?

Yes, the tax bill will result in an increase in the national debt if there is not increased GDP and time will tell if that happens. But Democrats are the last people who should talk about deficits given that the debt just about doubled from $10 trillion to $20 trillion in the eight years that Obama was in office during this period.

The next thing we need is welfare reform and I'd love to see the Democrats take the initiative on this because since Clinton did it in the mid-90s - and what he did was commendable - we have not had any significant welfare reform. The same holds true regarding what will replace ACA - rather than Schumer and Pelosi saying that they are only open to fixes to ACA they should be willing to work with the Republicans to come up with something that is viable even if it bears no resemblance to ACA. If they don't do so, they can't stay aloof and then blame whatever product the Republicans come up with.

Anonymous wrote:If Democrats really believe that this tax bill will be the undoing of the Republican party in 2018, they'd want it to go through. I think the reality is that they know most of the bill is a net positive for the majority of Americans.

No, we can do math. This is an atrocity. Democrats don't want to screw the country over in the meantime till we crush Repubes in 2018.

All should be aware that O/ACA changed Fed taxes for many and charged more for medicare then redirected what we all pay for medicare. Taxed on 100% of income not the income at social security cap plus .9% extra for some with NO consideration for high cola areas.

Then Obama added a 3.8% tax on investment income so brackets are not the sole indicator of effective rates. Plus by increasing the standard deduction the IRS will pick up money by fraud reduction.

It won’t be a positive and Dems don’t want to ruin the economy and force more poverty just to win elections. They will do that in 2018 anyway.

Anonymous wrote:If Democrats really believe that this tax bill will be the undoing of the Republican party in 2018, they'd want it to go through. I think the reality is that they know most of the bill is a net positive for the majority of Americans.

You got it. This bill will be a positive - for jobs, for the stock market, for the overwhelming majority of taxpayers. We are already doing very well this year (I just checked....market is at 24,600!), but this bill will move things into an even higher gear. The Democrats can't have that. If they are facing 2018 with a record stock market, people's retirements accounts at new highs, unemployment at 4% (considered "full employment" by economists), and the GDP approaching 4%, then the Rs will be re-elected.

If Democrats really believe that this tax bill will be the undoing of the Republican party in 2018, they'd want it to go through. I think the reality is that they know most of the bill is a net positive for the majority of Americans.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically if you are in the 39% bracket (over 400l/yr) you get a break, but if you are in the 150-300 bracket, you get totally hosed.

Rs know they are screwed with this demographic. AL showed that.

This is what Chuck Schumer said. He pointed out that people in the suburbs of places like Boulder, NY, Boston, Chicago, Minneapolis, Hartford, Washington etc. etc. are the ones who seem to get singled out for tax punishment via the SALT repeal. He pointed out that these areas used to be reliably Republican. The Republicans really don't seem to like educated professionals anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It still has to be scored, right?

Yes

Sh*t, there goes the deduction for my 4 mil house in Northwest I just bought.

And my beach house....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the 10k limit on SALT is that per individual or for joint as well? It doesn't seem fair that an individual can deduct up to 10k of SALT but two married people can only jointly deduct up to 10k. How is that fair???

The entire bill is unfair to everyone except the super rich.

Exactly.

Anonymous wrote:It is an excellent bill and best of all the individual mandate will be repealed. It will give us a chance to come up with a viable alternative to the ACA

WTF is that supposed to mean? You've ALREADY HAD 8 YEARS to come up with a viable alternative to ACA and yet you got JACK SH*T.

"Viable alternative to ACA" = BULLSHIT and everyone knows it.