Anonymous
12/12/2017 11:42
Subject: Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
OP I wouldn’t want someone coming to visit on January 2nd either. Starting work/school back up, having guests in the house when we’re not there etc - surprised they even want to come when you have to work a week.
That being said, your note to him was ridiculous. You should’ve just given him a few sets of dates that work. Not “you can leave at precisely 5pm on Saturday” for example.
That being said, your note to him was ridiculous. You should’ve just given him a few sets of dates that work. Not “you can leave at precisely 5pm on Saturday” for example.
Anonymous
12/12/2017 11:40
Subject: Re:Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
Anonymous wrote:When you have a pattern of letting your brother/parents dictate when they come and go based on what works best for their schedules, unfortunately, they are going to lose it when you finally do put your foot down. You are being completely reasonable given your schedule. I agree w/pp that you don't need to give any more explanation. Your brother has a number of options. If he chooses to whine and complain and stamp his feet and then "punish" you by not coming at all, that's all on him.
Your brother has options, he and his family could stay at a hotel or at the parents house, not yours, and he could come anytime he wants to come.
Not just after you've returned from traveling.
Anonymous
12/12/2017 11:26
Subject: Re:Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
When you have a pattern of letting your brother/parents dictate when they come and go based on what works best for their schedules, unfortunately, they are going to lose it when you finally do put your foot down. You are being completely reasonable given your schedule. I agree w/pp that you don't need to give any more explanation. Your brother has a number of options. If he chooses to whine and complain and stamp his feet and then "punish" you by not coming at all, that's all on him.
Anonymous
12/12/2017 10:52
Subject: Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
Anonymous wrote:Your brother is being a jerk. It's bad enough that he is being pushy and not taking no for an answer about Jan 2nd - even though you told him that was not going to work for you.....but to go behind your back and complain to your dad about it!? Good grief.
Maybe your dad can host your brother and his family?
This. I'm kind of stuck on your brother demanding what worked for him, then complaining to daddy about it. Then daddy called you to get you in line and accommodate your brother. Sounds like some weird boundaries.
Anonymous
12/12/2017 10:49
Subject: Re:Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
Ah the balance of the holidays.
You need to understand that your brother and family maybe don't want to travel over Christmas and want to celebrate in their own home.
If he invited you for the same time period would you go to him? If not, then don't fault him for saying no.
You could have politely said "X,Y,Z don't work but how about A,B,C?" and then negotiate from there.
The daughter excuse is just salt in the wound. That would piss me off 10x more than you just saying it won't work. You are TRYING to come up with crap reasons why it won't work and that is worse than anything.
You need to understand that your brother and family maybe don't want to travel over Christmas and want to celebrate in their own home.
If he invited you for the same time period would you go to him? If not, then don't fault him for saying no.
You could have politely said "X,Y,Z don't work but how about A,B,C?" and then negotiate from there.
The daughter excuse is just salt in the wound. That would piss me off 10x more than you just saying it won't work. You are TRYING to come up with crap reasons why it won't work and that is worse than anything.
Anonymous
12/12/2017 10:26
Subject: Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
Anonymous wrote:OP here: I want to clarify something.
This is a pattern. My brother is always trying to dictate terms of when and how we see each other. Always. Everything has to be for his family's convenience, and I am always the one bending and compromising. He never does.
My daughter would not have temper tantrums. She would be sad though. I think it is unfair to have her be sad for multiple days in a row to accommodate him.
Also, my DH does not want people here during the work week just getting back from a long trip, which I agree with (he has to work, kids have school/preschool), and I don't think I should be okay having them here and leaving right before Xmas when they could have flown down on Thurs and left on Sunday morning, if they had planned in advance. Weeks ago, he just said he was not coming for Christmas even though it was a weekend. I thought it was a non-issue, and now he is trying to bully his way into plans that are convenient for his family and not for mine. This has happened for years, and frankly, I am sick of it.
(I can't keep her home from school...if you miss 5 days of school, you have to meet with a truancy officer. she has already missed one day this year due to illness. she will miss 2 days in the spring because she is in a wedding for another family member out of state. I can afford for her to miss any days of school.)
It sounds like brother and family are doing the actual traveling. How far is that? Brother and CO are flying. Do you want o reverse the route and fly/travel? Perhaps he wants actual Christmas in his own home.
Anonymous
12/12/2017 00:15
Subject: Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
Your email should have stopped after saying that January 2 will not work for your family. The bit about what you can live with and the part where you attempted to dictate his travel schedule just shows your crazy side.
Dear brother,
January 2 won’t work for us for a variety of reasons, some of which I mentioned when we last spoke. You’re welcome to visit between x date and y date, if your schedules allow. We hope to see you soon!
That’s normal/sane/rational. What you wrote was a whole heap of crazy. It sounds like you and your brother deserve one another!
Dear brother,
January 2 won’t work for us for a variety of reasons, some of which I mentioned when we last spoke. You’re welcome to visit between x date and y date, if your schedules allow. We hope to see you soon!
That’s normal/sane/rational. What you wrote was a whole heap of crazy. It sounds like you and your brother deserve one another!
Anonymous
12/11/2017 23:13
Subject: Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here, update:
I wrote this message to my bro:
As I said already, it would be better for our schedule if you could come Thursday (anytime of day) to Sunday (you can leave first thing in the morning). I will take DD out of school early on Friday so we have more time. We are returning from a two-week trip (on Jan. 1) and need to prep a little for two straight weeks of guests (Mom and Dad) and get DD back in the school routine after two weeks off. This way you overlap multiple days with Dad and Mom being here and we can spend Christmas Eve together as a family. I think this is reasonable.
If you absolutely feel that you must be out of here before Sunday, you could leave on Saturday around 5 p.m. and we could have an early Christmas Eve dinner (and do it for lunch). I could live with you coming Wednesday and leaving Saturday early evening, if necessary. Coming on Tuesday, Jan. 2, just won’t work though.
You know the answer I got: We are not coming. I think he is being absolutely ridiculous. He is the one who did not prioritize coming to see us for Christmas in the first place and then expects me to be the one to completely bend to his wishes and not compromise (I personally think he does not want to come at all and being difficult and making demands pretty much guarantees he can get out of it).
I think he is being unreasonable saying he only wants to come on weekdays and refuses to be here on a weekend day...especially when for us Sat is Christmas Eve and Sunday is Christmas Day.
I wouldn't want to visit you either.
+1, not everyone can take off Christmas. Its a lot more in terms of flights too. Why not be flexible? Your kid is 6. You are way overthinking this.
Anonymous
12/11/2017 23:05
Subject: Re:Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
it is really that he will be 3.5 hours from us and prefers to drive here than drive home and then fly here).
That alone would be a reason for you to suggest for your brother to drive to you and not do a ridiculous drive back and fly.
Anonymous
12/11/2017 23:04
Subject: Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised everyone is telling the OP to suck it up. He's not coming fir either holiday; he's coming in between, and right after they get home from TWO WEEKS away. What if they were coming back from vacation on a random March 10 and her brother announced he wanted to visit them March
11-15, weekdays when they have work and school? I can't imagine anyone NOT saying to tell him no. The only difference here is its close to a holiday. But it's still disruptive.
OP, I agree that he is being unreasonable, and I can understand you being fed up with always adjusting your plans for his. I also understand your point about your daughter - it will suck fir her to have to go to school every day and miss seeing her cousins. I wouldn't say that would be a reason alone to deny the request, but I see what you are upset about. Where I think you went wrong was trying to dictate so specifically when (including times!) he could arrive/depart. I would have just say "We are just getting home on Jan 1 so Jan 2 doesn't work. You can come Wed or Thurs, and I'd be happy to move up our family Christmas Eve meal to lunch on Saturday before you leave." If he doesn't accent, tough. [/quote
]
+100. OP, I get it. I have an older brother who has always dictated everything. Plus he lashes out at me whenever he is stressed. I have started to pull back because he's Ann ass&ole. Stand firm.
Separately. I would not have that much leave especially if we were coming back from 2 weeks off. So we could not host if we had to work.
Anonymous
12/11/2017 22:25
Subject: Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
I'm surprised everyone is telling the OP to suck it up. He's not coming fir either holiday; he's coming in between, and right after they get home from TWO WEEKS away. What if they were coming back from vacation on a random March 10 and her brother announced he wanted to visit them March
11-15, weekdays when they have work and school? I can't imagine anyone NOT saying to tell him no. The only difference here is its close to a holiday. But it's still disruptive.
OP, I agree that he is being unreasonable, and I can understand you being fed up with always adjusting your plans for his. I also understand your point about your daughter - it will suck fir her to have to go to school every day and miss seeing her cousins. I wouldn't say that would be a reason alone to deny the request, but I see what you are upset about. Where I think you went wrong was trying to dictate so specifically when (including times!) he could arrive/depart. I would have just say "We are just getting home on Jan 1 so Jan 2 doesn't work. You can come Wed or Thurs, and I'd be happy to move up our family Christmas Eve meal to lunch on Saturday before you leave." If he doesn't accent, tough.
11-15, weekdays when they have work and school? I can't imagine anyone NOT saying to tell him no. The only difference here is its close to a holiday. But it's still disruptive.
OP, I agree that he is being unreasonable, and I can understand you being fed up with always adjusting your plans for his. I also understand your point about your daughter - it will suck fir her to have to go to school every day and miss seeing her cousins. I wouldn't say that would be a reason alone to deny the request, but I see what you are upset about. Where I think you went wrong was trying to dictate so specifically when (including times!) he could arrive/depart. I would have just say "We are just getting home on Jan 1 so Jan 2 doesn't work. You can come Wed or Thurs, and I'd be happy to move up our family Christmas Eve meal to lunch on Saturday before you leave." If he doesn't accent, tough.
Anonymous
12/11/2017 22:19
Subject: Re:Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
OP - why cause such a huge war? What is the point? Life is short. Your brother may be being an ass but so are you. You could be gracious and mature instead of throwing a tantrum. Your daughter could easily miss 1-2 days of school. Let her have fun with her cousins. Family can be a pain but I usually find it is worthwhile accommodating them. My kids are close to their cousins and have great memories of family vacations because we often vacation with my siblings even though they sometimes drive me nuts. Grow up and be the bigger person. Don’t be petty.
Anonymous
12/11/2017 21:28
Subject: Re:Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
I don't see what the fuss is all about, OP.
If your brother and his family want to visit the area during a time that is convenient for them then they should. You, OP, are happy to recommend hotels for them that are close by or they could go online to look at the recs on TripAdvisor.com or they can go to a hotel where they have points. You get the picture. Once your brother has finalized his arrangements and informed you of them then perhaps you can identify some days/times when it would be convenient for you both families to get together. You can also tell your brother that if they want to be guests in your home, as opposed to staying at a hotel, then the dates that are good for you are xxxxx.
There. Problem solved.
If your brother and his family want to visit the area during a time that is convenient for them then they should. You, OP, are happy to recommend hotels for them that are close by or they could go online to look at the recs on TripAdvisor.com or they can go to a hotel where they have points. You get the picture. Once your brother has finalized his arrangements and informed you of them then perhaps you can identify some days/times when it would be convenient for you both families to get together. You can also tell your brother that if they want to be guests in your home, as opposed to staying at a hotel, then the dates that are good for you are xxxxx.
There. Problem solved.
Anonymous
12/11/2017 18:57
Subject: Re:Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
OP, why did you post in the first place? You know what your brother is like (dictating plans, uncompromising), you have this history with him. Your original post and the follow-up email you copied/pasted were both long-winded and formal. Tone is everything. In the future, don't be such a pushover (which it sounds like you've been in the past), be firm and CONCISE in saying "this doesn't work for me, but we can do this instead" and let the chips fall where they may. And your six year old daughter's sadness, while valid, can only sound like a lame reason to anyone but you.
Anonymous
12/11/2017 17:44
Subject: Should guests dictate when they will come for the holidays (or ever)?
I'm sorry you and your family have these struggles. My only brother just died, and while he and I didn't squabble as adults, we had a difficult mother who often threw a wrench into plans, so we didn't get together on holidays as much as we would have liked. Life is short, OP, and I hope you work things out.